Re: CDR: Re: Shoe bomb (fwd)

2002-01-09 Thread F. Marc de Piolenc

It will work - provided that you provide a trained anesthetist for every
four or so passengers. There's no such thing as a safe, stable
anesthetic.

Marc de Piolenc

Marcel Popescu wrote:
 
  The following article is pretty unsettling, in that it makes the case that
- the technique is carefully thought out, and
- there will be more of these attacks, and
- there aren't good ways to stop them.
 
 Sleeping gas. Once the plane starts, fill the airplane with something that
 causes sleep. (Make sure the pilots are isolated, of course). Lots of
 savings - you don't need stewardesses, you don't need food or drinks...
 
 Mark

-- 
Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776

Rather than make war on the American people and their
liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways
to empower them to protect themselves when
warranted.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin





Re: Shoe bomb (fwd)

2002-01-08 Thread Marcel Popescu

 The following article is pretty unsettling, in that it makes the case that
   - the technique is carefully thought out, and
   - there will be more of these attacks, and
   - there aren't good ways to stop them.

Sleeping gas. Once the plane starts, fill the airplane with something that
causes sleep. (Make sure the pilots are isolated, of course). Lots of
savings - you don't need stewardesses, you don't need food or drinks...

Mark





Re: Shoe bomb (fwd)

2002-01-08 Thread Ken Brown

The trouble with the sleepy gas idea is that there is no anaesthetic
that is guaranteed to both knock out everybody and harm nobody.

I'm sure the airlines already thought of it. Why else do they serve so
much cheap or free booze on planes? A few prats get aggressive on it but
most people just crash out. (An employer once paid for me to travel
first-class from London to Cork in Ireland. Not much more than an hour
in the air and they offered me a choice of a bottle decent claret or
champagne. I chose both. No wonder so many bad business decisions get
made.)

It's probably safer just shackle everybody to their seats and handcuff
them. They can drink soup out of a straw.  And give them all compulsory
VR helmets with daytime TV. Or old re-runs of the Lucy show. 

Ken

Marcel Popescu wrote:
 
  The following article is pretty unsettling, in that it makes the case that
- the technique is carefully thought out, and
- there will be more of these attacks, and
- there aren't good ways to stop them.
 
 Sleeping gas. Once the plane starts, fill the airplane with something that
 causes sleep. (Make sure the pilots are isolated, of course). Lots of
 savings - you don't need stewardesses, you don't need food or drinks...




Shoe bomb (fwd)

2002-01-07 Thread Eugene Leitl



-- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a
__
ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.leitl.org
57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 22:32:31 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Shoe bomb


At 1:02 am -0800 12/26/01, Talley, Brooks wrote:
This guy, for example, tried to light plastic explosives with a fuse
(10% success rate at most), using a smelly match rather than a lighter,
and did so while sitting in his seat rather than in a lavatory.  Was he
asking to be caught, or just incredibly stupid?

He was seated close to the fuel tank. The explosive is essentially just
a primer for the fuel.

The following article is pretty unsettling, in that it makes the case that
  - the technique is carefully thought out, and
  - there will be more of these attacks, and
  - there aren't good ways to stop them.

-Olin

---
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/06/MN222117.DTL
Shoe-bomb flight -- a trial run?
U.S., British officials fear similar attacks in the works
Simon Reeve, Special to The Chronicle
Sunday, January 6, 2002

London -- As investigators gather evidence about possible links between
alleged airline shoe-bomber Richard Reid and the al Qaeda terrorist
organization, intelligence officials on both sides of the Atlantic are
floating a disturbing theory: that Reid's bombing attempt may have been a
trial run for future, simultaneous attacks against passenger jets to be
carried out by supporters of Osama bin Laden.

U.S. and British intelligence officials believe that the British citizen on
American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami on Dec. 22 was a foot
soldier sent to check the destructive power of shoe bombs against civilian
targets.

One senior British intelligence official said there are indications that more
than a few, but less than a dozen individuals may be preparing similar
attacks in the near future.

These officials cite similarities with a weapon developed by Ramzi Yousef,
mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, who plotted a series of
simultaneous attacks on U.S. airliners in the mid-1990s.

There is a definite pattern here with Yousef's past attacks that we would be
foolish to ignore, said one highly placed intelligence official. They have
tried this before, and they are trying it again.

During the flight, Reid allegedly tried to detonate explosives hidden in his
shoes with a lighted match. Crew and passengers averted a disaster by jumping
on the 28-year-old London-born suspect.

MOTHER OF SATAN BOMBS

Preliminary studies by the FBI indicate Reid's black suede basketball shoes
contained between 8 and 10 ounces of the explosive triacetone triperoxide, or
TATP -- called The Mother of Satan by Palestinian militants, because its
inherent instability makes it dangerous to both the victims and bomb maker.

The TATP in Reid's shoes was blended with an explosive called PETN, or
pentaerythritol tetranitrate, which can be ignited with a normal cigarette
lighter. PETN is a key ingredient of Semtex, the Czech-made military explosive
used to down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.

These bombs are sophisticated devices, said the British intelligence
official. They would have been difficult and dangerous to produce. Reid could
not have done this himself -- he would have trouble tying his own shoelaces.
It seems we may have an expert bomb maker on the loose in Europe.

LINKS TO 20TH HIJACKER

Among the links being pursued by investigators are telephone conversations,
known to British intelligence, between Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-
called 20th hijacker who was indicted on conspiracy charges in connection
with the Sept. 11 attacks, and reports that the two worshiped at the same
mosque in London. Moussaoui's attorney entered a plea of not guilty for his
client in Virginia last week.

Investigators are also probing the origins of the money used by Reid, who has
no visible means of support, as he traveled to seven different countries last
year.

Among the cities Reid visited was Amsterdam. The Binnenlandse Veiligheids
Dienst (BVD), the Dutch security service, is trying to reconstruct Reid's
movements and to establish whether an al Qaeda cell there may be plotting
attacks on passenger jets.

Reid has told FBI agents that he contacted Dutch arms dealers via the Internet
and paid $1,800 for the explosives. But intelligence sources speculate that
Reid obtained them from an al Qaeda explosives expert in Amsterdam, who
adapted the shoes in preparation for Reid's attack.

FBI agents and British anti-terrorist officials, meanwhile, have concluded
that the shoe-bomb plot originated with the ideas of Yousef, an early al Qaeda
operative who suggested flying passenger jets into buildings.

'PROJECT BOJINKA'