Re: cats
Well, cats *do* have a quite strict hierarchy which is far from ad-hoc establishment of the pecking order. So the analogy dosn't hold with cat behavioral experts. However, if cats could perform anonymized hissing, biting and scratching, then I'm sure that cypherpunk maillist would be a good analogy for cat behavior. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless (anarchic) assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: cats
On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:40:57PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote: Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions. First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang out together. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless (anarchic) assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. Yes, I'm well aware of what it's trying to say, but it's really a very poor analogy based on a faulty premise. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, Not may -- they always do, just as dogs do. And not just in first meetings, it continues virtually forever, including sometimes all-out fighting, but sometimes too subtle for most humans to even be aware of. (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. We have three or four distinct groups of cats living here that we feed. Two in the house, two in the garage/greenhouse who once lived in the house but could not resolve the dominance issue between one male in the house and one alpha female now in the greenhouse. Then there are the more or less permanent two females that live on and under the front porch, who also have serious unresolved issues with the Mama Fritz of the greenhouse (who does get outside during the day). Dominance also goes down the line, watching the 3 young offspring of one of the porch ladies makes that pretty clear, one of those bosses the other two, but all are subservient to the two older females, and their mother, Shy, clearly bosses Bobbette, the other older female. Neither of them take crap from Mama Fritzi, in fact one day I watched Bobbette whup Mama's butt, but that hasn't deterred Mama one iota. And then we have the feral toms who come to the permanent bin feeder on the porch as well, who have their own inter-relationships. If you read any texts on cat behavior, you'll find dominance a well studied attribute. Most say there is *always* an alpha cat, even if it isn't apparent to the casual observer. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: cats
At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote: Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions. First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang out together. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless (anarchic) assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. --- While acknowledging himself an Anarchist, he does not state to what branch of the organization he belongs ---Discussing Leon Czolgosz' shooting of President William McKinley
Re: cats
Well, cats *do* have a quite strict hierarchy which is far from ad-hoc establishment of the pecking order. So the analogy dosn't hold with cat behavioral experts. However, if cats could perform anonymized hissing, biting and scratching, then I'm sure that cypherpunk maillist would be a good analogy for cat behavior. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless (anarchic) assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: cats
At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote: Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions. First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang out together. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless (anarchic) assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. --- While acknowledging himself an Anarchist, he does not state to what branch of the organization he belongs ---Discussing Leon Czolgosz' shooting of President William McKinley
cats
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote: Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Herding Cats.
This is a column about the CIA, strange experiments and advanced methods of espionage. It may contain cats. This admittedly controversial content should not disqualify it from your consideration this morning. Thank you. The Primary Sources section of the Atlantic Monthly is not fiction. Rather, it is a collection of often obscure government documents that contain surprising data. The following appears in the current issue: Included in a passel of CIA documents recently declassified through a Freedom of Information Act request was a heavily redacted memo from 1967 entitled '(Deleted) Views on Trained Cats (deleted) for (deleted) Use.' Evidently the CIA's directorate of Science and Technology spent several years and (supposedly) millions of dollars surgically enhancing -- and then training -- a cat to become an organic listening device. MORE ON... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/02/25/DD141296.DTL
Fat Cats.
Digital no dilemma for Alston Good reception isn't a problem for Senator Alston - he received a free, deluxe, plasma-screen model at home courtesy of Telstra. $16,000 spent on dinner set Political perks Vote now Should politicians accept free gifts? Yes - 9% No - 72% Give them back - 16% Don't know - 0% http://theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725734964.html
alley cats (was Re: alpha cats)
April 20, 10:00pm, New York, NY, Drug War Race and Party. Alley cat cycling competition sponsored by the New York Bike Messengers Association, with cyclists role-playing as mock drug runners, picking up money, delivering mock contraband and bailing friends out of jail, racing to checkpoints around the city, followed by a party benefiting the Drug War Awareness Project. At the Lunatariam, 10 Jay St., Brooklyn, on the waterfront, featuring music, installation art about the drug war and info from a variety of drug reform organizations. For race information, contact Mike Dee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] For general info, to distribute information at the event, to volunteer or to contribute, contact Valerie Vande Panne at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat
very good p.j - Original Message - From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Moving beyond Reputation--the Market View of Reality On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 01:56 PM, Wei Dai wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 04:28:58PM -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: Following which, Alice pulls out the pre-dated revocation certificate, and generates confusion as to the validity of Bob's key change message. I guess we would need a distributed public registry of key change/revocation messages that guarantees only one such message will be posted per key, and any revocation messages not posted to this registry would be ignored. Again, I don't think reputation capital is the best solution to the problem that it tries to solve. I'm just trying to defend it against the charge that it's a nonsensical idea. I still propose b-money as a better alternative. Maybe Tim has found an even better solution, and if so I certainly look forward to seeing it. I'm writing a response to your long reply to my long article. (You hadn't responded to my article for some number of days after it appeared, which is fine, but that's why I haven't felt pressured to reply immediately to your reply.) I'll try to get it out later today or tomorrow. But so there's no suspense, I'm not claiming a better cryptographic protocol, certainly not involving distributed key registries for nym reputations. It's that whole approach I'm arguing against. Which I think I argued for reasonably well in the long post. If you or others are not convinced, fine. But I will send off the reply on specific points later, tonight or tomorrow. --Tim May Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
cats good for allergy -followup references
In a thread Re: When the FBI Guys Come Knocking... I claimed (from memory) that cats can decrease allergies. I was unable to find the _Science_ ref but I found a few refs to the original research reported in The Lancet 357:752-56 (2001). Reproduced below. I don't make this stuff up. http://www.niaid.nih.gov/newsroom/focuson/asthma01/research.htm#cats Contrary to popular belief, high levels of cat allergen in the home can sometimes decrease the risk of a child developing asthma, says grantee Thomas A. Platts-Mills, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Virginia. Apparently, the presence of a cat can alter the immune system in a manner similar to allergy shots, he reports. For other allergens that trigger asthma, such as the dust mite and cockroach, the higher the exposure level, the more likely it is that a child will produce allergic antibodies, called immunoglobulin-E or Ig-E antibodies, against them. This high exposure increases the child's risk of becoming allergic and developing asthma. But with cats, high exposure actually can confer protection -- at least in some children, Dr. Platts-Mills says. He and colleagues measured the levels of allergic antibodies to cat allergen in 226 children, aged 12 to 14 years, and tested the children for asthma. They also measured the amount of cat allergen in the children's homes and discovered that low-to-moderate amounts of cat allergen seemed to trigger allergy, but high amounts -- greater than 20 micrograms per gram of house dust -- reduced both IgE antibodies and the likelihood of asthma. This result alters the advice we give patients, says Dr. Platts-Mills. I would not recommend that all parents get rid of their cat because they are concerned their child might develop asthma. High exposure to cat allergen appears to be protective for some children and a risk factor for others. If the child is wheezing and has a positive skin test to cat allergen, then you should get rid of your cat. The high levels of cat allergen prompted the children's immune systems to make mostly a particular subtype of immunoglobulin G (IgG), called IgG4 antibody, rather than IgE, Dr. Platts-Mills explains. Allergy shots are believed to produce a similar effect. This research sheds more light on the relationship between allergen exposure and asthma, he says. When we further understand this process, it might lead to new treatments for asthma. Reference: T Platts-Mills et al. Sensitisation, asthma, and a modified Th2 response in children exposed to cat allergen: a populations-based cross-sectional study. The Lancet 357:752-56 (2001). Sensitisation, asthma, and a modified Th2 response in children exposed to cat allergen: a population-based cross-sectional study. Platts-Mills T, Vaughan J, Squillace S, Woodfolk J, Sporik R. University of Virginia Asthma and Allergic Diseases Center, University of Virginia Department of Medicine, Charlottesville, USA. [EMAIL PROTECTED] BACKGROUND: Although asthma is strongly associated with immediate hypersensitivity to indoor allergens, several studies have suggested that a cat in the house can decrease the risk of asthma. We investigated the immune response to cat and mite allergens, and asthma among children with a wide range of allergen exposure. METHODS: We did a population-based cross-sectional study of children (aged 12-14 years), some of whom had symptoms of asthma and bronchial hyper-reactivity. Antibodies to mite (Der f 1) and cat (Fel d 1) allergens measured by isotype (IgG and IgG4) specific radioimmunoprecipitation assays were compared with sensitisation and allergen concentrations in house dust. FINDINGS: 226 children were recruited, 47 of whom had symptoms of asthma and bronchial hyper-reactivity. Increasing exposure to mite was associated with increased prevalence of sensitisation and IgG antibody to Der f 1. By contrast, the highest exposure to cat was associated with decreased sensitisation, but a higher prevalence of IgG antibody to Fel d 1. Thus, among children with high exposure, the odds of sensitisation to mite rather than cat was 4.0 (99% CI 1.49-10.00). Furthermore, 31 of 76 children with 23 microg Fel d 1 at home, who were not sensitised to cat allergen had 125 units of IgG antibody
Indian Cats - was: Read this...
You stated: [President Bush] has a cat he has named it INDIA. This is disgusting He must have done it on purpose, because nobody names their dogs or cats in the name of any country even by remote chance. I specially wanted to point it out to show that this does show what George Bush actually thinks of India. Over above this, look at their arrogance that they post it on official website of Whitehouse. This is really an insult of a country like us which has history civilisation of thousands of years as compared to that of a nation born out of criminals like USA. [stuff] Post a protest message... be a True Indian. JITENDRA VAIDYA I am shocked and amazed! At first I thought Bush had named his cat for India Crude which is a kind of oil, since he was in the oil business. I see now how wrong I was! You are right of course, about the superiority of India. I recognize India's greatness in the cause of world water conservation as well, particularly the sacrifices Indians have made in the area of personal hygiene by showering only once every 15 days- all for the cause of world thirst! As such I am moved- near tears- to support your efforts. As a statement of dedication to your cause I have decided to rename my own cat, who I used to call dothead to Jitendra in your honor. Since that's pretty hard to say every time I want the cat to stop pissing on something I'm going to call him Jizz for short! Thanks for helping to keep this kind of country bashing under control! Hey, by the way, did you know that the British call bathrooms the loo ? I think Lulu's of the world need to unite and stop this kind of intentional slander! I know you Indians, who can't stand the colonialist scum who tried to build some kind of modern infrastructure in your country at their own expense and spoiled the natural state of the population in the process, will want to do anything you can to stick it to the Brits. How can we let this stand? I know I can count on your support by sending protest letters to the British Embassy! Thanks!
