RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[R.A. Hettinga]

At 10:16 PM -0400 9/7/05, Ulex Europae wrote:
>Okay, I've been in a hole in the ground for a few years. What happened
>to Tim May?

See below.

Cheers,
RAH
-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"When I was your age we didn't have Tim May! We had to be paranoid
on our own! And we were grateful!" --Alan Olsen

RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Ulex Europae]

Okay, I've been in a hole in the ground for a few years. What happened
to Tim May?

At 13:55 07-09-05 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
>Like I said:
>
>We need a WiFi VoIP over Tor app pronto! Let 'em CALEA -that-. Only then 
>will the ghost of Tim May rest in piece.
>
>Then again, the FBI probably loves hanging out in Starbucks anyway...
>
>-TD

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Eugen Leitl]

On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 10:16:31PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
> Okay, I've been in a hole in the ground for a few years. What happened
> to Tim May?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=0&scoring=d&enc_author=8NH-JhofCMh-TnQo0KXFjppET7C1dSi2gjvQCgNblIvwKtcqeQ&hl=en&;

Nobody of importance, just an Usenet troll.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Gregory Hicks]

> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:35:18 -0400
> From: Steve Furlong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The 
> FBI 
is Having
> 
> On 9/9/05, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does anyone have a recent working email address? Does
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] still work?
> 
> You might try sending email to that address. If you don't get a
> response, either it's not a good address or he thinks you're an idiot.
> (Or he's dead, but he wasn't last I knew.)

He's not...  Or he has a really, really good autoresponder.  Just saw
some notes purported to be from him on ba.food...

> 
> -- 
> There are no bad teachers, only defective children.

---

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.  I will surely
learn a great deal today.

"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for
lunch.  Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the
decision." - Benjamin Franklin

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they
be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Eugen Leitl]

On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 12:00:22AM -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> --
> From: Ulex Europae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Okay, I've been in a hole in the ground for a few
> > years. What happened to Tim May?
> 
> Gone very quiet.  At the expiration party, he failed to
> recommend gas chambers.

Does anyone have a recent working email address? Does
[EMAIL PROTECTED] still work? I don't have a usenet reader
right now, and Google groups munges addresses.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


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Description: Digital signature

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Riad S. Wahby]

Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone have a recent working email address? Does
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] still work? I don't have a usenet reader
> right now, and Google groups munges addresses.

At some point he announced that he was changing from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  You may give that one a try too.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[James A. Donald]

--
From:   Ulex Europae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Okay, I've been in a hole in the ground for a few
> years. What happened to Tim May?

Gone very quiet.  At the expiration party, he failed to
recommend gas chambers.


--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 52+QQakDucdEgAkVYs0b9Lq9sI84wmnFiKPwbEZK
 45j1XEUboV0R/BnpbNqH/42HhEuzdBcP38z9OmshC

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having

[Steve Furlong]

On 9/9/05, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone have a recent working email address? Does
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] still work?

You might try sending email to that address. If you don't get a
response, either it's not a good address or he thinks you're an idiot.
(Or he's dead, but he wasn't last I knew.)

-- 
There are no bad teachers, only defective children.

RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

[Tyler Durden]

Like I said:

We need a WiFi VoIP over Tor app pronto! Let 'em CALEA -that-. Only then 
will the ghost of Tim May rest in piece.


Then again, the FBI probably loves hanging out in Starbucks anyway...

-TD



From: Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The  FBI 
is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:58:08 +0200

- Forwarded message from David Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: David Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:48:13 -0400
To: Ip Ip 
Subject: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble 
on

the Line", Aug. 15)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Begin forwarded message:

From: Seth David Schoen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: September 5, 2005 6:10:02 PM EDT
To: David Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Donna Wentworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [E-PRV] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is
Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)


David Farber writes:


>Can I get a copy for IP
>

The original article is at

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1090908,00.html
(subscription required)

Here's the letter we sent:

Your account of FBI efforts to embed wiretapping into the design of
new Internet communication technologies ("Psst! The FBI is Having
Trouble on the Line," Notebook, August 15) is in error.

You claim that police "can't tap into [Internet] conversations or
identify the location of callers, even with court orders."

That is false. Internet service providers and VoIP companies have
consistently responded to such orders and turned over information
in their possession. There is no evidence that law enforcement is
having any trouble obtaining compliance.

But more disturbingly, you omit entirely any reference to the
grave threat these FBI initiatives pose to the personal privacy
and security of innocent Americans. The technologies currently
used to create wiretap-friendly computer networks make the people
on those networks more pregnable to attackers who want to steal
their data or personal information. And at a time when many of our
most fundamental consititutional rights are being stripped away in
the name of fighting terrorism, you implicitly endorse opening yet
another channel for potential government abuse.

The legislative history of the Communications Assistance for Law
Enforcement Act (CALEA) shows that Congress recognized the danger
of giving law enforcement this kind of surveillance power "in the
face of increasingly powerful and personally revealing
technologies"
(H.R. Rep. No. 103-827, 1994 U.S.C.C.A.N. 3489, 3493 [1994] [House
Report]). The law explicitly exempts so-called information
services;
law enforcement repeatedly assured civil libertarians that the
Internet would be excluded. Yet the FBI and FCC have now betrayed
that promise and stepped beyond the law, demanding that Internet
software be redesigned to facilitate eavesdropping. In the coming
months, we expect the federal courts to rein in these dangerously
expansive legal intepretations.

--
Seth Schoen
Staff Technologist[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electronic Frontier Foundationhttp://www.eff.org/
454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA  94110 1 415 436 9333 x107



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- End forwarded message -
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Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

[Eugen Leitl]

On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 05:31:32AM +0100, Dave Howe wrote:

>   Don't really need one. the Skype concept of "supernodes" - users that relay
> conversations for other users - could be used just as simply, and is

What hinders Mallory from running most of supernodes?

> Starbucks-compatable. If the feds had to try and monitor traffic for every 
> VoIP
> user that could potentially be used as a relay (*and* prove that any outbound
> traffic from their target wasn't relayed traffic from another user) life would
> get much harder for them much faster.
>   Plus of course some sort of assurance that skype's crypto isn't snakeoil :)

It is snake oil until proven otherwise.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

[Dave Howe]

Tyler Durden wrote:
> We need a WiFi VoIP over Tor app pronto! Let 'em CALEA -that-. Only then
> will the ghost of Tim May rest in piece.
  Don't really need one. the Skype concept of "supernodes" - users that relay
conversations for other users - could be used just as simply, and is
Starbucks-compatable. If the feds had to try and monitor traffic for every VoIP
user that could potentially be used as a relay (*and* prove that any outbound
traffic from their target wasn't relayed traffic from another user) life would
get much harder for them much faster.
  Plus of course some sort of assurance that skype's crypto isn't snakeoil :)

RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

[J.A. Terranson]

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Tyler Durden wrote:

> Like I said:
>
> We need a WiFi VoIP over Tor app pronto! Let 'em CALEA -that-. Only then
> will the ghost of Tim May rest in piece.

Somehoe, I don't see the [legitimate] ghost of Tim May finding either rest
nor peace.


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0xBD4A95BF


I like the idea of belief in drug-prohibition as a religion in that it is
a strongly held belief based on grossly insufficient evidence and
bolstered by faith born of intuitions flowing from the very beliefs they
are intended to support.

don zweig, M.D.

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [IP] Internet phone wiretapping ("Psst! The FBI is Having Trouble on the Line", Aug. 15)]

[Bill Stewart]

At 01:13 AM 9/8/2005, Eugen Leitl wrote:

On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 05:31:32AM +0100, Dave Howe wrote:

>   Don't really need one. the Skype concept of "supernodes"
> - users that relay conversations for other users -
> could be used just as simply, and is

What hinders Mallory from running most of supernodes?


Budget?  But Mallory doesn't need to run *most* of the supernodes -
hitting just the current targets is good enough,
especially if the central sites or client software
can be tricked into not using encryption or using compromised keys.

>   Plus of course some sort of assurance that skype's crypto isn't 
snakeoil :)

It is snake oil until proven otherwise.


Yup.  They say they use AES, and that they use RSA to set up session keys.
The main issue is that they don't document their protocols or crypto,
and of course the usual failures are bad protocol design,
which can break systems that do include strong crypto.
The use of RSA for session key setup instead of Diffie-Hellman is a
strong sign that they don't really have a clue...


If you're in the SF Bay Area, Skype is having a developer get-together
in Palo Alto on Thursday 9/22.
http://www.skype.com/campaigns/skypenightpaloalto2005