Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: Siliness, compounded. Show me a law about obligatory cameras in cybercafes. It's silly now. A few years back, the spook said that the NSA doesn't spy on US citizens and won't because that was not its charter.
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
Yeah, well terrorists use condoms and wear clothes too, so those are terrorist tools also, so we should run around naked and have unprotected sex just so we don't help the terrorists. Also, terrorists don't jump off cliffs like lemmings, so we should do that too. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.htmlhttp://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html Feds Label Wi-Fi a Terrorist Tool By Paul Boutin SANTA CLARA, California -- Attention, Wi-Fi users: The Department of Homeland Security sees wireless networking technology as a terrorist threat.
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Got Reichstag? Mmh, smells like victory.
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Phone booths already don't accept calls, by State Fiat. You think detecting and dropping modem calls from a CO is tough? It's just a matter of designing a (software ?) modem that will, instead of whisling and peeping, emulate soccer mom chatter. Lower rates, but undetectable. i had this idea 3 years ago and haven't done anything with it, so perhaps someone here might actually be able to make headway, or at least shoot it down. unfortunately, this irc session log is the best description that i can find anywhere, sorry for the format... -a - -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Log taken from xchat session on 29 Nov 1999: [14:33:49] attila [14:34:43] attila i have this fucking killer idea. i'm totally fried because i've been up all night so i can't explain it as well as i want to [14:35:16] attila but which do you prefer, just on a gut level aesthetic reaction: cryptotalk, cryptospeak, cryptovox [14:35:23] attila , you doo [14:35:28] wake up [14:35:38] yes [14:35:39] whgat [14:35:50] i'm so mentally and spiritually drained [14:35:57] attila look at what i just said [14:36:10] hmm, cryptovox cryptospeak then cryptotalk [14:36:14] attila i have an insanely good idea. [14:36:15] yeash [14:36:18] attila so you like cryptovox too, huh [14:36:21] attila i like cryptovox [14:36:24] attila i need a fucking laptop [14:36:48] attila okay, that's three votes for cryptovox [14:36:51] attila i like it best [14:37:17] attila my god i am lagged to holy fucking shit [14:37:19] are you going to register cryptovox.com ? [14:37:26] attila yes. may kill me but i have to do it [14:37:35] attila so here's the basic underlying idea [14:37:47] attila end to end encryption using phonemes spoken very quickly as the transport [14:38:01] attila so you could hold your laptop/pda up to your cellphone or a payphone and have it speak ciphertext [14:38:09] attila to a similar box on the other end [14:38:18] attila thus obviating the need for crypto in the phone or in the phone network [14:38:48] attila i'm positive that you could come up with a variety of algorithms for stringing together phonemes that would hold up well over a noisy channel [14:39:06] attila and speak them and recognize them fast enough on the other end to make it reasonable [14:39:08] hmm, interesting. How would you decode it ? [14:39:12] attila same thing [14:39:18] attila you have a little pda or laptop let's say [14:39:24] attila you hold it up to the phone or whatever [14:39:28] attila they talk [14:39:35] attila it's basically a modem but using speech [14:39:59] what kind of bandwidth do you think you could get ? [14:40:09] attila i have to experiment [14:40:18] attila but imagine a little palmpilot sized gizmo [14:40:24] attila you can talk to it [14:40:33] but its not as important as sending a secure message. [14:40:36] attila it can talk to computers via ir or 10bt or whatever [14:40:53] attila it can receive and transmit files or spoken messages you dictate [14:41:05] attila it works over any phone connection [14:41:10] attila even a crappy one in an airport [14:41:14] attila with no connectors [14:41:20] attila it uses strong crypto [14:41:38] attila that's why i wanted to borrow a voice modem [14:41:54] attila but it just hit me while i was lying in bed trying to fall asleep how it could all work [14:42:07] attila the thing is, there are crypto phones [14:42:10] attila but no sdks [14:42:13] attila or nothing you or i could get [14:42:21] attila because the gov't is paranoid about opening it up [14:42:29] attila bellatlantic SAYS digital pcs is secure [14:42:31] attila but fuck that [14:42:40] attila the only way you can have personal privacy is with string end-to-end crypto [14:42:52] attila and if you did the cryptovox thing everyone in the world could have it [14:43:06] attila s/string/strong/ [14:43:10] attila you see what i mean? [14:44:01] attila i imagine the crpytovox phoneme thing sounding like a bunch of la vo cha fi gu wa si ha mo type syllables spoken very quickly [14:44:13] attila it would take a bit of fucking around to figure out what the parameters are [14:44:24] attila don't tell anyone about this [14:45:02] attila you could prototype this on a laptop with a halfway decent sound card and a cell phone [14:45:41] attila i can imagine the demo [14:45:42] ok, but why not just have 2 modems and some crypto software ? [14:46:14] attila because you don't always have something you can plug your computer into [14:46:25] I guess you could leave voicemail to people with a secure message. [14:46:36] and answering machines. [14:46:37] attila well, the idea is if everyone's carrying around a cryptovox voice pad [14:46:48] attila they can just hold it up to whatever phone is handy [14:47:03] attila or eventually it could be integrated with a phone. but
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
There was an article in the press a month or so ago about some town that was trying hard to restrict cybercafe hours, because of gang activity there - I'm not sure how much of it's just the same nonsense that tried to restrict video-game parlors, and how much of it's because the local bullies were playing quake and decided to gang up and frag the mayor's kid... Bill, You're referring to Garden Grove in Orange County (SoCal). This is a Vietnamese neighborhood, and meatspace gang violence intruded into the cybercafes --which are really networked-gaming parlours BTW-- and some kid got whacked outside. In the meatwhacking sense. The various reactive laws this violence generated are not CP-list-related per se, but are indicators of how more general-purpose cybercafes might be regulated. --- Tim: re Siliness, compounded: I wasn't agreeing that such laws (cams in 'cafes) exist now in the US, but rather that 'cafe anonymity *will be* readily blocked by laws requiring your drivers license (or library card) to use the machines. All of this in addition to the power to subpeona all the private videos in the neighborhood. To implement, all it requires is a smoking crater somewhere, and the claim that the Feebs are stymied at a 'cafe ingress point. --- Got Reichstag?
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 10:56:14AM -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: But we will always have phone booths and acoustic couplers. Not around Boston. I got attacked by a script kiddie with the kloged trojan on Thanksgiving morning at 5 AM and had occasion to need to make a couple of out of state calls related to cleaning up the mess.. So I tried the nearest phone booth. Put the money in and dialed the number - got a reorder. So I tried 12 more phone booths (mostly in a cluster of 8) and got we are unable to complete your call as dialed - please check the number and try again or ask your operator for assistance. The phones that did not provide this message all gave reorders or no ringback (silence). So out of 12-14 payphones I tried at 5 locations including the fancy public library in the wealthiest town in Mass I was able to find none that would connect an out of state coin call (versus credit card or prepaid card calls). Several would connect local coin calls - I checked. I did verify that this was not related to the numbers I was dialling, trying various random out of state (and out of LATA) numbers gave the same exact results. Thus it seems that at least around the wealthy Boston suburbs they have already made it impossible to make a long distance coin call, and one presumes this is for obvious reasons... We are closer to the police state that everyone fears than we know -- Dave Emery N1PRE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
On Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 09:31 AM, Steve Schear wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.htmlhttp:// www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html Feds Label Wi-Fi a Terrorist Tool By Paul Boutin SANTA CLARA, California -- Attention, Wi-Fi users: The Department of Homeland Security sees wireless networking technology as a terrorist threat. Ah, the irony is too rich! Consider one comment from this WiFi conference: -- Homeland Security is putting people in place who will be in a position to say, 'If you're going to get broken into ... we're going to start regulating,' said Cable and Wireless security architect Shannon Myers in a panel dubbed Homeland Security vs. Wi-Fi. -- Now who gave us 40-bit WEP? Government. And who is now saying secure yourselves!? Government. Deep schizophrenia, the same sort that gave us the Official Wisdom: Passengers and crew should never, ever fight with a hijacker...the optimal strategy is to let the hijacker into the flight cabin and then deal with him over the next several hours. --Tim May
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
This, with obligatory cameras in cybercafes, is just plugging the anonymity holes. Also, one of unmentioned consenquences is that any security will make self-organising networks harder to implement. Guess who benefits. But we will always have phone booths and acoustic couplers. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
At 10:56 AM 12/7/2002 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: This, with obligatory cameras in cybercafes, is just plugging the anonymity holes. I haven't noticed any cameras in my neighborhood cafes. If they do install them you can usually stand outside and use the link. Also, one of unmentioned consenquences is that any security will make self-organising networks harder to implement. Guess who benefits. But we will always have phone booths and acoustic couplers. I wouldn't count on the phone booths. Their numbers are dropping precipitously due to cellular use. steve
If this be terrorism make the most of it!
http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.htmlhttp://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html Feds Label Wi-Fi a Terrorist Tool By Paul Boutin SANTA CLARA, California -- Attention, Wi-Fi users: The Department of Homeland Security sees wireless networking technology as a terrorist threat.
Re: If this be terrorism make the most of it!
At 10:56 AM 12/7/02 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: This, with obligatory cameras in cybercafes, is just plugging the anonymity holes. Yep. Also, one of unmentioned consenquences is that any security will make self-organising networks harder to implement. Guess who benefits. But we will always have phone booths and acoustic couplers. Phone booths already don't accept calls, by State Fiat. You think detecting and dropping modem calls from a CO is tough? I'm waiting for it to be a PATRIOT offense for using an antennae to hit a cellular basestation other than the nearest one an omni would hit. Or to be operating a motor vehicle on a public road with an operating computer with an 802.11 card. Or photographing any federal building or official. At least the tragicomicretins in http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html invented the cool new acronym: TAP, terrorist access points. This is a concise (if hysterical in both senses) Spec of a useful system. If its good enough for Everyone, its good enough for the Horsemen. If its not a TAP, you might as well paint a friggin bullseye on your back. --- Orwell was an optimist.
