Re: Academics locked out by tight visa controls

[John Ioannidis]

There was an article in the International Herald Tribune some time in
the May-June timeframe, where the President or one of the Deans at
Harvard pointed out exactly this problem.  I can't find the article in
the NYT/IHT/etc archives -- did anyone else see it?

/ji

On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:50:18AM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:03:57AM -0400, John Kelsey wrote:
> 
> | >Academics locked out by tight visa controls
> | >U.S. SECURITY BLOCKS FREE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS
> | >By Bruce Schneier
> | 
> | I guess I've been surprised this issue hasn't seen a lot more
> | discussion.  It takes nothing more than to look at the names of the
> | people doing PhDs and postdocs in any technical field to figure out
> | that a lot of them are at least of Chinese, Indian, Arab, Iranian,
> | Russian, etc., ancestry.  And only a little more time to find out that
> | a lot of them are not citizens, and have a lot of hassles with respect
> | to living and working here.  What do you suppose happens to the US
> | lead in high-tech, when we *stop* drawing in some large fraction of
> | the smartest, hardest-working thousandth of a percent of mankind?   
> 
> Those people don't get a vote.  The politicians in question will be
> dead and gone before the slope of the curve changes anything.  Why
> *would* we discuss it?
> 
> Adam the cynic.
> 
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Re: Academics locked out by tight visa controls

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

At 08:03 AM 9/20/2004, John Kelsey wrote:
I guess I've been surprised this issue hasn't seen a lot more 
discussion.  It takes nothing more than to look at the names of the people 
doing PhDs and postdocs in any technical field to figure out that a lot of 
them are at least of Chinese, Indian, Arab, Iranian, Russian, etc., 
ancestry.  And only a little more time to find out that a lot of them are 
not citizens, and have a lot of hassles with respect to living and working 
here.  What do you suppose happens to the US lead in high-tech, when we 
*stop* drawing in some large fraction of the smartest, hardest-working 
thousandth of a percent of mankind?

in '94 there was report (possibly sjmn?) that said at least half of all 
cal. univ. tech. PHDs were awarded to foreign born. during some of the tech 
green card discussions in the late '90s ... it was pointed out that the 
internet boom (bubble) was heavily dependent on all these foreign born  
since there was hardly enuf born in the usa to meet the demand.

in the late 90s there were some reports that many of these graduates had 
their education paid by their gov. with directions to enter an us company 
in strategic high tech areas for 4-8 years  and then return home as 
tech transfer effort. i was told in the late 90s about one optical 
computing group in a high tech operation  where all members of the 
group fell into this category (foreign born with obligation to return home 
after some period).

another complicating factor competing for resources during the late 90s 
high-tech, internet boom (bubble?) period was the significant resource 
requirement for y2k remediation efforts.

nsf had recent study on part of this
http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/infbrief/ib.htm
graduate enrollment in science and engineering fields reaches new peak; 1st 
time enrollment of foreign students drops
http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/infbrief/nsf04326/start.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheelerhttp://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ 

Re: Academics locked out by tight visa controls

[John Kelsey]

>From: "R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2004 8:33 AM
>Subject: Academics locked out by tight visa controls

>

>Posted on Mon, Sep. 20, 2004

>Academics locked out by tight visa controls
>U.S. SECURITY BLOCKS FREE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS
>By Bruce Schneier

..

I guess I've been surprised this issue hasn't seen a lot more discussion.  It takes 
nothing more than to look at the names of the people doing PhDs and postdocs in any 
technical field to figure out that a lot of them are at least of Chinese, Indian, 
Arab, Iranian, Russian, etc., ancestry.  And only a little more time to find out that 
a lot of them are not citizens, and have a lot of hassles with respect to living and 
working here.  What do you suppose happens to the US lead in high-tech, when we *stop* 
drawing in some large fraction of the smartest, hardest-working thousandth of a 
percent of mankind?  

--John

Re: Academics locked out by tight visa controls

[Adam Shostack]

On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:03:57AM -0400, John Kelsey wrote:

| >Academics locked out by tight visa controls
| >U.S. SECURITY BLOCKS FREE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS
| >By Bruce Schneier
| 
| I guess I've been surprised this issue hasn't seen a lot more
| discussion.  It takes nothing more than to look at the names of the
| people doing PhDs and postdocs in any technical field to figure out
| that a lot of them are at least of Chinese, Indian, Arab, Iranian,
| Russian, etc., ancestry.  And only a little more time to find out that
| a lot of them are not citizens, and have a lot of hassles with respect
| to living and working here.  What do you suppose happens to the US
| lead in high-tech, when we *stop* drawing in some large fraction of
| the smartest, hardest-working thousandth of a percent of mankind?   

Those people don't get a vote.  The politicians in question will be
dead and gone before the slope of the curve changes anything.  Why
*would* we discuss it?

Adam the cynic.