Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
At 10:23 AM 11/24/2002 -0600, Neil Johnson wrote: (Referring to previous thread about capturing video.) As I sit here looking at a 64 MB SD Card that I just picked up for $28 at my local Wally World, I was wondering why it (or it is larger capacity brethren) couldn't be used to record video and then (after appropriate protection) swallowed. Because there's no particularly good reason? :-) Because you can hide it well enough on your person, either hidden or else in plain sight disguised as a coat button or a fake police badge or a or "Off the Pigs" button? Because if you're in a situation where there's a real threat of this, you're probably much better off doing some kind of radio relay so that the surviving members of your cadre can upload the data, either plaintext, encrypted, or stegoed? Mules are trying to transmit atoms, not bits, and if you're trying to transmit bits, there are lots of ways to transmit bits. Some of the memory flake formats are really pretty thin and hidable, though the rotating disk versions aren't as easily concealed. But if you can do the mechanicals do make memory safely and recoverably swallowed, you can probably do the mechanicals to fit a backup storage system in your belt buckle or shoe-phone.
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
At 10:12 PM 11/24/02 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: >On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: > >> I believe Daniel Hillis (or was it Jaron Lanier?) inserted time-capsule >> information into a cockroach's DNA and released it into the Boston subways. >> He calculated that this would be the way to preserve information for the >> longest period of time. Sounds like a gedankenprank that neither are capable of doing without extra training. Especially since they probably haven't tested it by catching, grinding, and sequencing more roaches. >This assumes the insert doesn't result in negative fitness (could very >well be, if the insert kills a gene). > >Also, a fitness-neutral insert is likely to be lost, or severely garbled. >I hope very much he used a really good redundant encoding. Either the message is neutral, and encoded with lots of redundancy (because its going to be changed at the standard 1-in-a-thousand-base mutation rate, and not selected for) or the message is beneficial and is maintained by natural selection. The latter being tough to do, your best hope is an error correcting code. If the message is maladaptive (other than taking up space on the chromo, which for many critters isn't a big hassle) you're fucked.
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
This assumes the insert doesn't result in negative fitness (could very well be, if the insert kills a gene). If the information is the history of human civilization, that may very well end up being information of great "negative fitness"! (We shall see...) Actually, from what I understand, there are huge swathes of every creature's genetic code made up of "useless" information. Some of these areas are apparently extremely old and do not change very often...as I remember Hillis (the guy who started "Thinking Machines" and is currently working on the Decamillineal clock) identified such an area in the cockroaches DNA and had the info inserted there. (Our own DNA has apparently a lot of junk also, as well as fragments of various encounters we've had over the aeons...there are apparently significant chunks of various viruses' DNA in there and other stuff...) Also, a fitness-neutral insert is likely to be lost, or severely garbled. I hope very much he used a really good redundant encoding. Although some things in a cockroach change pretty often (here in New York we are breeding a variety of extremely manueverable cockroaches), the DNA of the cockroach I think is extremely stable overall (aren't they like 100s of millions of years old?) _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
> couldn't be used to record video and then (after appropriate protection)
> swallowed.
Eventually this will happen. Maybe a video recorded into a DNA of a bacteria
synthesized in a portable device ("diamond age", anyone ?)
Ne protocols will be required ("if I infect this east coast girl, how long it
will take for the message to get to south africa ?")
Which will have interesting consequences. For the time being the state is
comfortable sifting through wired internet (after winning the crypto war) and
listening to airwaves. Maybe body-size state-inspected condoms will be required
at all public places.
=
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Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
> Lousy latency. Just put your DNA-encoded message in a microdot on your > dead tree letter, and PCR/sequence on arrival. Isn't all snail mail already irradiated ? Then soon. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
Not so science-fictiony...
I believe Daniel Hillis (or was it Jaron Lanier?) inserted time-capsule
information into a cockroach's DNA and released it into the Boston subways.
He calculated that this would be the way to preserve information for the
longest period of time.
From: Morlock Elloi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Neil Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:03:39 -0800 (PST)
> couldn't be used to record video and then (after appropriate
protection)
> swallowed.
Eventually this will happen. Maybe a video recorded into a DNA of a
bacteria
synthesized in a portable device ("diamond age", anyone ?)
Ne protocols will be required ("if I infect this east coast girl, how long
it
will take for the message to get to south africa ?")
Which will have interesting consequences. For the time being the state is
comfortable sifting through wired internet (after winning the crypto war)
and
listening to airwaves. Maybe body-size state-inspected condoms will be
required
at all public places.
=
end
(of original message)
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Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Morlock Elloi wrote:
> Ne protocols will be required ("if I infect this east coast girl, how long it
> will take for the message to get to south africa ?")
Lousy latency. Just put your DNA-encoded message in a microdot on your
dead tree letter, and PCR/sequence on arrival.
> Which will have interesting consequences. For the time being the state is
> comfortable sifting through wired internet (after winning the crypto war) and
> listening to airwaves. Maybe body-size state-inspected condoms will be required
> at all public places.
Steganography looks way easier, though.
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Morlock Elloi wrote: > Isn't all snail mail already irradiated ? Then soon. It's not, because electron accelerators are a) expensive b) tend to damage mail. Besides, the few ug or ng dry DNA in the microdot is not a living being. It can remain readable at ridiculously high dosages.
Re: Video Mules: (Was: Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera) )
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: > I believe Daniel Hillis (or was it Jaron Lanier?) inserted time-capsule > information into a cockroach's DNA and released it into the Boston subways. > He calculated that this would be the way to preserve information for the > longest period of time. This assumes the insert doesn't result in negative fitness (could very well be, if the insert kills a gene). Also, a fitness-neutral insert is likely to be lost, or severely garbled. I hope very much he used a really good redundant encoding.
