Re: zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?)
--- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then, of course, in the off chance they can't actually break the message under that flag, they can merely send a guy out with binoculars or whatever. Don't forget about rubber-hose cryptanlysis. Rumour has it that method is preferred in many cases since it makes the code-breakers feel good by way of testosterone release. Guns. You may not be able to kill them, but you may be able to force them to kill you. If they're using rubber hoses, they're probably going to kill you anyways. Hoses leave marks, of course, and if there's one thing a spook hates, it is leaving evidence of his or her passage. Unless his or her mission is about leaving visible traces, of course. Regards, Steve __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
RE: zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?)
At 17:43 2005-04-29, you wrote: Eh...for email you may have a point, but I'm not 100% convinced. In other words, say they want to monitor your email account. Do you really believe they are going to tap all major nodes and then filter all the traffic just to get your email? ... Well, they could just tune in on Echelon, which really seems to be reality. There is no need for infinite resources to do such a thing. This is that whole, The TLAs are infinitely powerful so you might as well do nothing philosophy. And even though I might be willing to concede that they get all that traffic, one hand doesn't always talk to the other. there may be smaller branches on fishing trips accessing your email if they want. if one were able to monitor the email account for access, you'll at least force your TLA phisher into going through proper internal channels. He might actually get a no, depending on the cost vs risk. Here is the fundamental misunderstanding. Your email is no account. There are no place where your account is stored. The only thing that exists is an endpoint, where you receive your mail. Before the mail reaches that point, its's just TCP-packets on the wire. If the listener is on a mail router, you could possibly see a trace of it in the message header, but it's possible to rewrite that stuff to, so the only way to KNOW if someone reads your mail is to analyze the potential readers behaviour based on the information in your mail. /O
RE: zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?)
Eh...for email you may have a point, but I'm not 100% convinced. In other words, say they want to monitor your email account. Do you really believe they are going to tap all major nodes and then filter all the traffic just to get your email? This is that whole, The TLAs are infinitely powerful so you might as well do nothing philosophy. And even though I might be willing to concede that they get all that traffic, one hand doesn't always talk to the other. there may be smaller branches on fishing trips accessing your email if they want. if one were able to monitor the email account for access, you'll at least force your TLA phisher into going through proper internal channels. He might actually get a no, depending on the cost vs risk. Look...they aren't some super-Orwellian hyperorganized hive-mind. They're a big, fat bureaucracy full of big, fat bureaucrats. That's why they don't get real jobs! Look...a little tiny yap yap dog can often scare off a bigger dog or animal by making it clear that any interaction's going to suck. This isn't because the big dog couldn't ultimately kill the little dog, but because the big dog will realize it's just not worth it. -TD From: Morlock Elloi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:17:53 -0700 (PDT) I'm still having trouble understanding your threat model. Just assume braindeath and it becomes obvious. No tla with any dignity left would bother e-mail providers or try to get your password. All it need to do is fill gforms and get access to tapped traffic at major nodes (say, 20 in US is sufficient?). Think packet reassembly - filter down - store everything forever - google on demand. Concerned about e-mail privacy? There is this obscure software called 'PGP', check it out. Too complicated? That's the good thing about evolution, not everyone makes it. end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?)
On Fri, 2005-04-29 at 11:43 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: Look...a little tiny yap yap dog can often scare off a bigger dog or animal by making it clear that any interaction's going to suck. For some reason I'm reminded of the old tagline: YIP! YIP! YAP! YIP! YAP! *BANG* [EMAIL PROTECTED] NO TERRIER -- Shawn K. Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
zombied ypherpunks (Re: Email Certification?)
I'm still having trouble understanding your threat model. Just assume braindeath and it becomes obvious. No tla with any dignity left would bother e-mail providers or try to get your password. All it need to do is fill gforms and get access to tapped traffic at major nodes (say, 20 in US is sufficient?). Think packet reassembly - filter down - store everything forever - google on demand. Concerned about e-mail privacy? There is this obscure software called 'PGP', check it out. Too complicated? That's the good thing about evolution, not everyone makes it. end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
