Re: [darktable-dev] Darkroom UI refactoring

[Coding Dave]

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the write-up. After vacation I will try it out. Thanks in
advance!

Andreas Schneider  schrieb am So., 28. Okt. 2018, 04:09:

> On Saturday, 27 October 2018 08:17:44 CEST Coding Dave wrote:
> > I wonder 2 things:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> > 1) Is this whole color topic written down somewhere with like a tutorial
> > how to tune darktable for your camera to have nice colors (A video would
> be
> > ok for me too)?
>
> take a look at:
>
>
> https://blog.pixelbook.org/2018/10/sony-alpha-7-iii-basecurve-and-camera-profile-for-darktable/
>
> > 2) can we turn off the basecurve as default module if this is not the
> > correct way to get nice colors?
>
> It shouldn't be turned of by default in darktable but you can turn it off
> in
> the preset settings for your installation.
>
>
> Andreas
>
> --
> Andreas Schneider a...@cryptomilk.org
> GPG-ID: 8DFF53E18F2ABC8D8F3C92237EE0FC4DCC014E3D
>
>
>

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Re: [darktable-dev] Darkroom UI refactoring

[Andreas Schneider]

On Saturday, 27 October 2018 08:17:44 CEST Coding Dave wrote:
> I wonder 2 things:

Hi Dave,
 
> 1) Is this whole color topic written down somewhere with like a tutorial
> how to tune darktable for your camera to have nice colors (A video would be
> ok for me too)?

take a look at:

https://blog.pixelbook.org/2018/10/sony-alpha-7-iii-basecurve-and-camera-profile-for-darktable/

> 2) can we turn off the basecurve as default module if this is not the
> correct way to get nice colors?

It shouldn't be turned of by default in darktable but you can turn it off in 
the preset settings for your installation.


Andreas

-- 
Andreas Schneider a...@cryptomilk.org
GPG-ID: 8DFF53E18F2ABC8D8F3C92237EE0FC4DCC014E3D


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Re: [darktable-dev] Darkroom UI refactoring

[Coding Dave]

Seems like I never have understood the basecurve and LUT correctly. Since
basecurve is one of the default modules applies on every image upon opening
I never was questioning that it is required. I always wanted to tune it to
get good results with my Nikon D750 (I also have tried to create my own
profile from an IT8 chart but it makes the images greenish). Your comment
now explains that this is a difficult path and others like the LUT module
are far easier and give better results.

I wonder 2 things:

1) Is this whole color topic written down somewhere with like a tutorial
how to tune darktable for your camera to have nice colors (A video would be
ok for me too)?

2) can we turn off the basecurve as default module if this is not the
correct way to get nice colors?

Cheers
Dave

Aurélien Pierre  schrieb am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018,
13:51:

>
> Le 26/10/2018 à 00:49, Jason Polak a écrit :
>
> Dear Aurelien,
>
> It's clear that you put a lot of thought into this and I am eager to try
> it. It is very helpful to see the GUI screenshots, and based on those I
> do have a few comments/questions:
>
> 1) Don't you think that the equalizer/local contrast module are more
> similar to the sharpening module rather than the tone curve/fill light
> module? Especially with the equalizer, part of it performs a very
> similar effect to sharpening. I understand though that the algorithms
> behind them might be different.
>
> There is still a certain amount of arbitrary choices in this order, I
> won't deny it. Local contrast, at a very local scale, is similar to a
> sharpening, but it's a perceptual sharpening (you fool the eye), not an
> optical sharpening (you don't restore blurry edges). Even with a tone
> curve, if carefully adjusted, you can increase the feeling of sharpness, as
> a side-effect. But local contrast stays contrast, and as equalizer and
> local contrast can affect the global contrast dramatically (the same way as
> shadows-highlights), I put them with tones. Sharpen is a sort of high-pass
> filter so its effect will always be more selective.
>
> Besides, local contrast and equalizer are best used before high-pass and
> sharpen (retouch from more global to more specific).
>
> 2) In your description of the correction tab, you say that after leaving
> this tab, the image should look clean and dull. That makes sense -
> though I am wondering how this works considering the automatic
> application of the base curve? If the base curve is applied upon image
> opening, the tones of the image look already pretty manipulated compared
> to the dull-looking image without the base curve. In other words, it
> seems as though having the base curve applied can already push the tones
> in the image pretty far, leaving little room for colour balance
> adjustments later on in the tone-modules tab.
>
> I believe the basecurve is a mistake and should be deprecated. First and
> foremost, it's applied before the input color profile, so you have to
> disable it if you work with an enhanced/custom matrix, otherwise your
> profile is useless (never add contrast before the input color profile, do a
> gamma or log correction but don't darken blacks while you light mid-tones).
> The basecurve was intended, at first, to emulate in-camera JPEG
> color-rendition with filmic curves
> .
> Turns out the quality of the users-provided curves is not equal from brand
> to brand, it creates out-of-gamut colors and over-saturation (on Nikon, the
> reds get boosted like crazy - people all look like alcoholics) and the devs
> have stopped adding new curves a few years ago. The new module for that
> purpose is the colorchecker/LUT, which can "easily" be used by anyone to
> create custom LUTs from color charts and in-camera JPGs and occurs later in
> the pixelpipe, where it is safe.
>
> The base curve can still be used to (carefully) tonemap HDRs from a single
> exposure. But do yourself a favor, buy a colorchart
>  (30 €), make your own
> camera profile
> ,
> and never ever use the default base curves.
>
> I am just wondering how having a default base curve fits in with your
> editing paradigm?
>
> Sincerely,
> Jason
>
> Thanks for your input,
>
> Aurélien.
>
> On 2018-10-25 08:28 PM, Aurélien Pierre wrote:
>
> Hi everyone !
>
> To follow up on that matter, I have done a pull request doing what I
> discussed here : https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/pull/1745
>
> You will find screenshots showing the changes, a sum-up of the benefits
> and a poll to vote for/against the change and give your feedback. After
> that, I suppose the core devs will decide what they want to do.
>
> I know it's still not the flexible UI some of you asked, the problem is
> we don't have the workforce for it. darktable 2.6 is supposed to be
> released in 2 months, so now is