Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Andreas Schneider  [01-01-70 12:34]:
> On Sunday, 30 August 2020 05:03:34 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > The difficulty in reverse engineering their proprietary algorithms w/o
> > becoming liable is apparently quite great.  Would you consider paying
> > their fines if they occur?
> 
> That's only true for the US and maybe some other countries, we don't have 
> software patents in the EU and reverse engineering is allowed here too ...
> 
> You comment from above is counter-productive! It spreads FUD.

you are incorrect, but carry on ... 

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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[FF]

Thanks Doug. Found the reference. Hope dt will support it.

Best,
Jack.


> On Aug 29, 2020, at 10:26 PM, DougC  wrote:
> 
> Jack-
> 
> In a previous response it was recommended you forward your request to the 
> exiv2 project since that code library is what darktable uses to import raw 
> files. The link to that project was given as https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2 
> 
> If you browse over to that page and look down at the notes for an upcoming 
> release you will see that CR3 support is already listed as a priority. You 
> can always add your request to that project but I wonder if that will have 
> any effect since they already have identified CR3 files as needing support.
> 
> Doug C.
> 
> 
>  On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 22:00:05 -0400 FF  wrote 
> 
> I don’t know who’re the people the question should be addressed to, so please 
> forward these concerns to them.
> 
> I’d only point out that the Canon 1Dx3 was released in February and the new 
> R5 is already shipping. These new and all future cameras will use the cr3 
> file format. If the main concern is possibility of Canon intervention, then 
> does it mean that dt will stop supporting all new cameras from the #1 
> manufacturer?
> 
> Best,
> Jack.
> 
> On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Stille  > wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, this concern is not from the darktable devs but from the dev 
> team of the library darktable uses to decode raw files, exiv2. I'm sure 
> darktable will support cr3 files as soon as exiv2 include support on their 
> side, but until that happens, there's nothing practical the darktable team 
> can do about it. I'd recommend redirecting your request to exiv2 
> https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2 
> 
> On 8/30/20 1:12 AM, Matt Maguire wrote:
> oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't the 
> issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's legal team 
> might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.
> 
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon 1Dx3 
> and R5?
> 
> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
> 
> 
> 
> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
> What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files, but 
> so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
> 
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
> Hello,
> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim 
> they ?
> Thanks,
> Jack
> 
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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Stille]

It's not a technically difficult problem as much as a drama-within-exiv2 
problem, from what I see https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2/issues/1066


On 8/30/20 1:56 PM, Andreas Schneider wrote:

On Sunday, 30 August 2020 01:37:53 CEST Stille wrote:

I wonder, if exiv2 keep not implementing cr3 support, would it be
possible to read those via libraw (which does support it as of snapshot
201910 - https://www.libraw.org/news/libraw-snapshot-201910)

CR3 is a ISOBMFF container as far as I know. So exiv2 just needs support for
ISOBMFF to get the exiv2 data ...


Andreas





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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Andreas Schneider]

On Sunday, 30 August 2020 05:03:34 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> The difficulty in reverse engineering their proprietary algorithms w/o
> becoming liable is apparently quite great.  Would you consider paying
> their fines if they occur?

That's only true for the US and maybe some other countries, we don't have 
software patents in the EU and reverse engineering is allowed here too ...

You comment from above is counter-productive! It spreads FUD.




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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Andreas Schneider]

On Sunday, 30 August 2020 01:37:53 CEST Stille wrote:
> I wonder, if exiv2 keep not implementing cr3 support, would it be
> possible to read those via libraw (which does support it as of snapshot
> 201910 - https://www.libraw.org/news/libraw-snapshot-201910)

CR3 is a ISOBMFF container as far as I know. So exiv2 just needs support for 
ISOBMFF to get the exiv2 data ...


Andreas



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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Patrick Shanahan]

* FF  [08-29-20 22:02]:
> I don’t know who’re the people the question should be addressed to, so please 
> forward these concerns to them.
> 
> I’d only point out that the Canon 1Dx3 was released in February and the new 
> R5 is already shipping. These new and all future cameras will use the cr3 
> file format. If the main concern is possibility of Canon intervention, then 
> does it mean that dt will stop supporting all new cameras from the #1 
> manufacturer?
> 
> Best,
> Jack.
> 
> > On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Stille  wrote:
> > 
> > Furthermore, this concern is not from the darktable devs but from the dev 
> > team of the library darktable uses to decode raw files, exiv2. I'm sure 
> > darktable will support cr3 files as soon as exiv2 include support on their 
> > side, but until that happens, there's nothing practical the darktable team 
> > can do about it. I'd recommend redirecting your request to exiv2 
> > https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2 
> > 
> > On 8/30/20 1:12 AM, Matt Maguire wrote:
> >> oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't the 
> >> issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's legal team 
> >> might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.
> >> 
> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> 
> >> wrote:
> >> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon 
> >> 1Dx3 and R5?
> >> 
> >> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
> >>> What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files, 
> >>> but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
> >>> 
> >>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim 
> >>> they ?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jack
> >>> 
> >>> ___
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> >>>  
> >>> 
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> >> 
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> 
> 

You need to be addressing Canon as they hold patent/copywrite and have
failed to release specs to open source developers.

The difficulty in reverse engineering their proprietary algorithms w/o
becoming liable is apparently quite great.  Would you consider paying
their fines if they occur?

You could vote with your pocket book in another manner, do not buy Canon.

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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[FF]

I don’t know who’re the people the question should be addressed to, so please 
forward these concerns to them.

I’d only point out that the Canon 1Dx3 was released in February and the new R5 
is already shipping. These new and all future cameras will use the cr3 file 
format. If the main concern is possibility of Canon intervention, then does it 
mean that dt will stop supporting all new cameras from the #1 manufacturer?

Best,
Jack.

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Stille  wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, this concern is not from the darktable devs but from the dev 
> team of the library darktable uses to decode raw files, exiv2. I'm sure 
> darktable will support cr3 files as soon as exiv2 include support on their 
> side, but until that happens, there's nothing practical the darktable team 
> can do about it. I'd recommend redirecting your request to exiv2 
> https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2 
> 
> On 8/30/20 1:12 AM, Matt Maguire wrote:
>> oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't the 
>> issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's legal team 
>> might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.
>> 
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
>> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon 
>> 1Dx3 and R5?
>> 
>> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
>>> What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files, but 
>>> so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim 
>>> they ?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jack
>>> 
>>> ___ 
>>> darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
>>> darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 
>>>  
>>> 
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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Stille]

I wonder, if exiv2 keep not implementing cr3 support, would it be 
possible to read those via libraw (which does support it as of snapshot 
201910 - https://www.libraw.org/news/libraw-snapshot-201910)


On 8/30/20 2:26 AM, FF wrote:

Thanks everyone who answered.
I read months ago Mr. Lebedev call and responded. I believe the dt 
site still asks for the cr3 files contribution.

—-


  LebedevRI  commented on Mar 2,
  2018
  

Though, until the production camera is actually released, and the full 
set of freely-licensed samples is contributed to the 
https://raw.pixls.us/, it won’t be merged.

—-
I’d appreciate an update what’s being planned, if anything. There are 
more questions then answers.
Was the cr2 an open format and why Canon didn’t sue if it was reversed 
engineered?

How is Adobe + other open source apps manage to avoid the problem?
Has anyone approached Canon with questions?

I doubt that Canon would take action which wouldn’t earn them any fame.
I personally dropped greedy Adobe apps when they moved to the rental 
business and I wouldn’t consider the DNG (Adobe) converter for many 
reasons. I use Canon DPP, but would love to have dt as an extra RAW 
converter. I think dt is a small fish (no offence intended) for Canon 
to chase. They didn’t move against Magic Lantern. The worst what could 
happen, in case they reacted, would be the lost effort by developers 
and cancellation of this format support in the dt.

Thanks,
Jack.

On Aug 29, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Matt Maguire > wrote:


oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't 
the issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's 
legal team might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.


On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> 
wrote:


The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by
the Canon 1Dx3 and R5?

I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I
provided.


On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:

What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3
files, but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting
to DNG.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:

Hello,
I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making
profiles confim they ?
Thanks,
Jack


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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Stille]

Furthermore, this concern is not from the darktable devs but from the 
dev team of the library darktable uses to decode raw files, exiv2. I'm 
sure darktable will support cr3 files as soon as exiv2 include support 
on their side, but until that happens, there's nothing practical the 
darktable team can do about it. I'd recommend redirecting your request 
to exiv2 https://github.com/Exiv2/exiv2


On 8/30/20 1:12 AM, Matt Maguire wrote:
oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't 
the issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's 
legal team might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.


On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> 
wrote:


The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the
Canon 1Dx3 and R5?

I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I
provided.


On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:

What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3
files, but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting
to DNG.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:

Hello,
I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making
profiles confim they ?
Thanks,
Jack


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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[FF]

Thanks everyone who answered.
I read months ago Mr. Lebedev call and responded. I believe the dt site still 
asks for the cr3 files contribution.
—-
LebedevRI  commented on Mar 2, 2018 

Though, until the production camera is actually released, and the full set of 
freely-licensed samples is contributed to the https://raw.pixls.us/ 
, it won’t be merged.
—-
I’d appreciate an update what’s being planned, if anything. There are more 
questions then answers.
Was the cr2 an open format and why Canon didn’t sue if it was reversed 
engineered?
How is Adobe + other open source apps manage to avoid the problem? 
Has anyone approached Canon with questions?

I doubt that Canon would take action which wouldn’t earn them any fame.
I personally dropped greedy Adobe apps when they moved to the rental business 
and I wouldn’t consider the DNG (Adobe) converter for many reasons. I use Canon 
DPP, but would love to have dt as an extra RAW converter. I think dt is a small 
fish (no offence intended) for Canon to chase. They didn’t move against Magic 
Lantern. The worst what could happen, in case they reacted, would be the lost 
effort by developers and cancellation of this format support in the dt.
Thanks,
Jack.

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Matt Maguire  wrote:
> 
> oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't the 
> issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's legal team 
> might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.
> 
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon 1Dx3 
> and R5?
> 
> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
> 
> 
> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
>> What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files, but 
>> so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
>> 
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim 
>> they ?
>> Thanks,
>> Jack
>> 
>> ___ 
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>> 
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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Matt Maguire]

oh, I see, you *uploaded* CR3 samples, not downloaded. Samples aren't the
issue right now, it is more some concerns around what Canon's legal team
might do if the CR3 format is reverse-engineered.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 07:28, FF  wrote:

> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon
> 1Dx3 and R5?
>
> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
>
>
> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
>
> What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files,
> but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
>
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim
>> they ?
>> Thanks,
>> Jack
>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Patrick Shanahan  [08-29-20 17:39]:
> * FF  [08-29-20 17:31]:
> > The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon
> > 1Dx3 and R5?
> > 
> > I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
> > 
> > 
> > On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
> > > What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files,
> > > but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles
> > > confim they ?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jack
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
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> 
> but you only read a small part of the conversation.
> google for "cr3 support in darktable", the answer *is* there.

ps: the ultimate answer lies with canon management.

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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Patrick Shanahan]

* FF  [08-29-20 17:31]:
> The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon
> 1Dx3 and R5?
> 
> I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.
> 
> 
> On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
> > What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files,
> > but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.
> > 
> > On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Hello,
> > I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles
> > confim they ?
> > Thanks,
> > Jack
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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but you only read a small part of the conversation.
google for "cr3 support in darktable", the answer *is* there.


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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[FF]

The question is simple: When dt will support cr3 files used by the Canon 
1Dx3 and R5?


I got the msg. that what was needed were file samples which I provided.


On 2020-08-29 4:42 p.m., Matt Maguire wrote:
What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 
files, but so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.


On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF mailto:fm...@ncf.ca>> 
wrote:


Hello,
I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles
confim they ?
Thanks,
Jack

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Re: [darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[Matt Maguire]

What's your question? I have a Canon KissM/M50 that produces CR3 files, but
so far to edit them in darktable I've been converting to DNG.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 03:25, FF  wrote:

> Hello,
> I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim
> they ?
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
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[darktable-dev] The Canon CR3

[FF]

Hello,
I d/loaded samples of the cr3 files. Could someone making profiles confim they ?
Thanks,
Jack
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to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org