Re: [darktable-user] Re: [darktable-dev] Darkroom UI refactoring

[Coding Dave]

Ah,

I totally forgot and will turn that off.

Thank you!

Bruce Williams  schrieb am Sa., 27. Okt. 2018, 14:43:

> Coding Dave,
> If you look in the preferences, you'll find that you can uncheck the box
> to "auto apply base curve to imported raw files".
>
> Cheers,
> Bruce Williams.
>
> On Sat., 27 Oct. 2018, 17:21 Coding Dave,  wrote:
>
>> Seems like I never have understood the basecurve and LUT correctly. Since
>> basecurve is one of the default modules applies on every image upon opening
>> I never was questioning that it is required. I always wanted to tune it to
>> get good results with my Nikon D750 (I also have tried to create my own
>> profile from an IT8 chart but it makes the images greenish). Your comment
>> now explains that this is a difficult path and others like the LUT module
>> are far easier and give better results.
>>
>> I wonder 2 things:
>>
>> 1) Is this whole color topic written down somewhere with like a tutorial
>> how to tune darktable for your camera to have nice colors (A video would be
>> ok for me too)?
>>
>> 2) can we turn off the basecurve as default module if this is not the
>> correct way to get nice colors?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>>
>> Aurélien Pierre  schrieb am Fr., 26. Okt.
>> 2018, 13:51:
>>
>>>
>>> Le 26/10/2018 à 00:49, Jason Polak a écrit :
>>>
>>> Dear Aurelien,
>>>
>>> It's clear that you put a lot of thought into this and I am eager to try
>>> it. It is very helpful to see the GUI screenshots, and based on those I
>>> do have a few comments/questions:
>>>
>>> 1) Don't you think that the equalizer/local contrast module are more
>>> similar to the sharpening module rather than the tone curve/fill light
>>> module? Especially with the equalizer, part of it performs a very
>>> similar effect to sharpening. I understand though that the algorithms
>>> behind them might be different.
>>>
>>> There is still a certain amount of arbitrary choices in this order, I
>>> won't deny it. Local contrast, at a very local scale, is similar to a
>>> sharpening, but it's a perceptual sharpening (you fool the eye), not an
>>> optical sharpening (you don't restore blurry edges). Even with a tone
>>> curve, if carefully adjusted, you can increase the feeling of sharpness, as
>>> a side-effect. But local contrast stays contrast, and as equalizer and
>>> local contrast can affect the global contrast dramatically (the same way as
>>> shadows-highlights), I put them with tones. Sharpen is a sort of high-pass
>>> filter so its effect will always be more selective.
>>>
>>> Besides, local contrast and equalizer are best used before high-pass and
>>> sharpen (retouch from more global to more specific).
>>>
>>> 2) In your description of the correction tab, you say that after leaving
>>> this tab, the image should look clean and dull. That makes sense -
>>> though I am wondering how this works considering the automatic
>>> application of the base curve? If the base curve is applied upon image
>>> opening, the tones of the image look already pretty manipulated compared
>>> to the dull-looking image without the base curve. In other words, it
>>> seems as though having the base curve applied can already push the tones
>>> in the image pretty far, leaving little room for colour balance
>>> adjustments later on in the tone-modules tab.
>>>
>>> I believe the basecurve is a mistake and should be deprecated. First and
>>> foremost, it's applied before the input color profile, so you have to
>>> disable it if you work with an enhanced/custom matrix, otherwise your
>>> profile is useless (never add contrast before the input color profile, do a
>>> gamma or log correction but don't darken blacks while you light mid-tones).
>>> The basecurve was intended, at first, to emulate in-camera JPEG
>>> color-rendition with filmic curves
>>> .
>>> Turns out the quality of the users-provided curves is not equal from brand
>>> to brand, it creates out-of-gamut colors and over-saturation (on Nikon, the
>>> reds get boosted like crazy - people all look like alcoholics) and the devs
>>> have stopped adding new curves a few years ago. The new module for that
>>> purpose is the colorchecker/LUT, which can "easily" be used by anyone to
>>> create custom LUTs from color charts and in-camera JPGs and occurs later in
>>> the pixelpipe, where it is safe.
>>>
>>> The base curve can still be used to (carefully) tonemap HDRs from a
>>> single exposure. But do yourself a favor, buy a colorchart
>>>  (30 €), make your own
>>> camera profile
>>> ,
>>> and never ever use the default base curves.
>>>
>>> I am just wondering how having a default base curve fits in with your
>>> editing paradigm?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input,
>>>
>>> Aurélien.
>>>
>>> On 2018-10-25 08:28 PM, Aurélien Pierre wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi

[darktable-user] Re: [darktable-dev] Darkroom UI refactoring

[Bruce Williams]

Coding Dave,
If you look in the preferences, you'll find that you can uncheck the box to
"auto apply base curve to imported raw files".

Cheers,
Bruce Williams.

On Sat., 27 Oct. 2018, 17:21 Coding Dave,  wrote:

> Seems like I never have understood the basecurve and LUT correctly. Since
> basecurve is one of the default modules applies on every image upon opening
> I never was questioning that it is required. I always wanted to tune it to
> get good results with my Nikon D750 (I also have tried to create my own
> profile from an IT8 chart but it makes the images greenish). Your comment
> now explains that this is a difficult path and others like the LUT module
> are far easier and give better results.
>
> I wonder 2 things:
>
> 1) Is this whole color topic written down somewhere with like a tutorial
> how to tune darktable for your camera to have nice colors (A video would be
> ok for me too)?
>
> 2) can we turn off the basecurve as default module if this is not the
> correct way to get nice colors?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
> Aurélien Pierre  schrieb am Fr., 26. Okt.
> 2018, 13:51:
>
>>
>> Le 26/10/2018 à 00:49, Jason Polak a écrit :
>>
>> Dear Aurelien,
>>
>> It's clear that you put a lot of thought into this and I am eager to try
>> it. It is very helpful to see the GUI screenshots, and based on those I
>> do have a few comments/questions:
>>
>> 1) Don't you think that the equalizer/local contrast module are more
>> similar to the sharpening module rather than the tone curve/fill light
>> module? Especially with the equalizer, part of it performs a very
>> similar effect to sharpening. I understand though that the algorithms
>> behind them might be different.
>>
>> There is still a certain amount of arbitrary choices in this order, I
>> won't deny it. Local contrast, at a very local scale, is similar to a
>> sharpening, but it's a perceptual sharpening (you fool the eye), not an
>> optical sharpening (you don't restore blurry edges). Even with a tone
>> curve, if carefully adjusted, you can increase the feeling of sharpness, as
>> a side-effect. But local contrast stays contrast, and as equalizer and
>> local contrast can affect the global contrast dramatically (the same way as
>> shadows-highlights), I put them with tones. Sharpen is a sort of high-pass
>> filter so its effect will always be more selective.
>>
>> Besides, local contrast and equalizer are best used before high-pass and
>> sharpen (retouch from more global to more specific).
>>
>> 2) In your description of the correction tab, you say that after leaving
>> this tab, the image should look clean and dull. That makes sense -
>> though I am wondering how this works considering the automatic
>> application of the base curve? If the base curve is applied upon image
>> opening, the tones of the image look already pretty manipulated compared
>> to the dull-looking image without the base curve. In other words, it
>> seems as though having the base curve applied can already push the tones
>> in the image pretty far, leaving little room for colour balance
>> adjustments later on in the tone-modules tab.
>>
>> I believe the basecurve is a mistake and should be deprecated. First and
>> foremost, it's applied before the input color profile, so you have to
>> disable it if you work with an enhanced/custom matrix, otherwise your
>> profile is useless (never add contrast before the input color profile, do a
>> gamma or log correction but don't darken blacks while you light mid-tones).
>> The basecurve was intended, at first, to emulate in-camera JPEG
>> color-rendition with filmic curves
>> .
>> Turns out the quality of the users-provided curves is not equal from brand
>> to brand, it creates out-of-gamut colors and over-saturation (on Nikon, the
>> reds get boosted like crazy - people all look like alcoholics) and the devs
>> have stopped adding new curves a few years ago. The new module for that
>> purpose is the colorchecker/LUT, which can "easily" be used by anyone to
>> create custom LUTs from color charts and in-camera JPGs and occurs later in
>> the pixelpipe, where it is safe.
>>
>> The base curve can still be used to (carefully) tonemap HDRs from a
>> single exposure. But do yourself a favor, buy a colorchart
>>  (30 €), make your own
>> camera profile
>> ,
>> and never ever use the default base curves.
>>
>> I am just wondering how having a default base curve fits in with your
>> editing paradigm?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jason
>>
>> Thanks for your input,
>>
>> Aurélien.
>>
>> On 2018-10-25 08:28 PM, Aurélien Pierre wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone !
>>
>> To follow up on that matter, I have done a pull request doing what I
>> discussed here : https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/pull/1745
>>
>> You will find screenshots showing the changes, a sum-up of t

Re: [darktable-user] spot removal question

[I. Ivanov]

On 2018-10-26 15:03, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

I tried making a preset with all the spots defined but it doesn't seem to
work, nor does a style.  am I missing something or is that approach not
possible and I should continue copy/pasting from one image to another or
group?

I tried myself with a preset - just to test. Behaves very odd. The 
preset does preserve the individual strokes but only for the image that 
had them applied. So you can go down the history stack and even compress 
it. Then when you go back to the preset and apply it - everything is 
applied properly. Then when you move to the next image and apply the 
very same preset the strokes are not there. I find this odd.


You can save the mask in a side cart and then load it with appending but 
I don't see benefit comparing to what you are already doing.


Regards,

B


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[darktable-user] spot removal question

[Patrick Shanahan]

working over an old set of 900_ photos, trying to remove dirty sensor
spots using the "spot removal" module.  have a pattern of about 50 spots
which repeats on every shot, but not all shots need all the spots removed
and the mask area is not the same for every spot.

I can copy the pattern from one shot and apply it to a group, then edit an
individual shot turning on and off the module.  this shows where the mask
needs to be moved so the edit is mostly invisible.

I tried making a preset with all the spots defined but it doesn't seem to
work, nor does a style.  am I missing something or is that approach not
possible and I should continue copy/pasting from one image to another or
group?

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode

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Re: [darktable-user] Thanks for the manual. Thanks for the videos, but...

[Bruce Williams]

Thanks Jean-Luc.
I was hoping that I didn't fall into that category, and no, no offence was
felt on my end. 😊
Thank you also for the kind words regarding my videos.
Cheers,
Bruce Williams.

On Sat., 27 Oct. 2018, 04:41 Jean-Luc CECCOLI, 
wrote:

> > Message du 25/10/18 21:19
> > De : "Bruce Williams"
> > A : "Jean-Luc CECCOLI"
> > Copie à : "darktable-user"
> > Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Thanks for the manual. Thanks for the
> videos, but...
> >
> >
> "And many youtubers seem fond of earing them speak and bla-bla-bla for
> hours before they speak about the real subject for only a couple of
> minutes."
>
> >
> This is something I try really hard NOT to do.
> If anyone thinks I'm guilty of this, please call me on it, because when I
> watch other people's videos, it is my single biggest annoyance also.
> >
> Cheers,
> > Bruce Williams.
>
> Well, I don't understand why could think this was adressed to you
> I watched one or two of your videos, of course, and though I must listen
> many times to understand, as english is not my native language, I could not
> notice anything negative. Rather professional and worth watching at,
> despites the language barrier.
> So, no, you don't belong to those who bla-bla-bla... and sorry if your
> felt offended, you were absolutely not refered to.
>
> Regards,
>
> J.-Luc
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Thanks for the manual. Thanks for the videos, but...

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

> Message du 25/10/18 21:19
> De : "Bruce Williams" 
> A : "Jean-Luc CECCOLI" 
> Copie à : "darktable-user" 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Thanks for the manual. Thanks for the videos, 
> but...
> 
>
"And many youtubers seem fond of earing them speak and bla-bla-bla for hours 
before they speak about the real subject for only a couple of minutes."

>
This is something I try really hard NOT to do.
If anyone thinks I'm guilty of this, please call me on it, because when I watch 
other people's videos, it is my single biggest annoyance also.
>
Cheers,
> Bruce Williams.

Well, I don't understand why could think this was adressed to you
I watched one or two of your videos, of course, and though I must listen many 
times to understand, as english is not my native language, I could not notice 
anything negative. Rather professional and worth watching at, despites the 
language barrier.
So, no, you don't belong to those who bla-bla-bla... and sorry if your felt 
offended, you were absolutely not refered to.

Regards,

J.-Luc

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