Re: [darktable-user] newbie help with old negatives

[Terry Pinfold]

looks a nice setup. I suspect putting in a bright 6500K LED bulb would help
and as suggested additional blue filtration might be good as well.
Advantage of LED is cool temperature so less problems with heat bending
negatives in the holder.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 at 15:07, jys  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020, at 08:24, Miklós Müller wrote:
> > As for the scanning resolution, I have to resort to my 6MP Nikon D50, my
> budget does not allow for more ATM.
> >
> > Here's the scanning rig BTW: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8dUqTJkvmsdm9BTY8
>
> That is a beautiful reproduction rig, but... if it's as old as it looks, I
> guess it uses some kind of incandescent light source? If you want to make
> the most of your camera's dynamic range, you probably want to use a very
> "cool" light source (6500K, aka "daylight", or even add some gels to make
> it even more "blue"). This way, you won't end up with such an underexposed
> blue channel in order to avoid clipping the red channel; it will move them
> all a little closer together in the histogram. This crudely approximates
> what film scanners do by exposing the different channels for different
> lengths of time. It just helps with not having to push the digital
> stretching of the blue channel quite as hard. Take a shot without film
> loaded to get a white balance for the light itself, and use that WB setting
> for all the shots, then use the negadoctor module to further adjust for the
> remaining orange mask.
>
> In addition to the links already provided for information about negadoctor
> module, also pay attention to the tooltips when hovering over the slider
> labels - there's a lot of information there.
>
> And, just for my take on processing one of the old negatives, attached is
> an XMP for the first one, which also uses the color balance module to
> further correct some of the extreme color cast into something a little more
> neutral. Note the use of the parametric blend to constrain the processing
> to the shadow areas. You could do even better with more time spent on the
> masking, but it's a quick example. :-)
>
> --
> jys
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>

-- 
Dr Terry Pinfold
Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager
Lecturer in Flow Cytometry
University of Tasmania
17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000
Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053


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Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush

[Terry Pinfold]

I have to agree that improving the brush in DT to function more like LRs is
worth doing. I have abandoned use of the brush in DT because it is
nowhere near as functional as LRs.  That being said, I find using the path
tool to draw around an region leaves the LR brush for dead. What I really
like is how I can reshape and feather the drawn path later if the
transition is poor.  Another DT win over LR.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 07:37, Martin Šoltis  wrote:

> Thanks Burce.
>
> Yes as you've said IT IS POSSIBLE. But you have to use multiple tools and
> even
> then it is not as easy as with brush tool in LR.
> Yes I know there are many people who hates comparison with LR but if there
> is
> some good and effective tool I don't think is wrong to learn from this.
>
> Anyway if some developers read this thread please add this feature into DT
> if
> it's possible.
>
> Thanks
>
> And with best regards.
>
> Martin
>
>
> On utorok 11. augusta 2020 2:36:10 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> > Martin,
> > Thanks for the kind words.
> > Is there a way to do it with darktable's current masking tools?
> > Not really.
> > But what I've learned to do is to explore the Mask Blur, Feather,
> Contrast
> > and whatever the 4th one is (can't quite think of it right now).
> > I can usually get to where I want with those controls, but I'll confess,
> a
> > brush tool like Lightroom would be awesome.
> > Cheers,
> > Bruce Williams
> > --
> > Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> >
> > brucewilliamsphotography.com
> > shuttersincpodcast.com
> >
> > e-mail  | Twitter  |
> > LinkedIn  |
> Facebook
> >  | Soundcloud
> >  | Quora
> > 
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Forwarded message -
> > From: Martin Šoltis 
> > Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush
> > To: 
> >
> >
> > I see it's dificult to describe but yes you get it :-)
> >
> > That's exactly what I thought.
> >
> > So it's possible to do something like this ?
> >
> > Btw. Thanks Bruce to explain what i didn't know to explain.
> > I am not English native and sometimes I am struggling to explain what i
> > have
> > on my mind.
> >
> > And your videos are really great.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On utorok 11. augusta 2020 1:59:14 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> > > Ahhh, I think I get it.
> > > A brush that you can set to a low opacity and then just continue to
> brush
> > > multiple times to build up the density of the mask?
> > > Yeah, that would be sweet.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Bruce Williams
> > > --
> > > Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> > >
> > > brucewilliamsphotography.com
> > > shuttersincpodcast.com
> > >
> > > e-mail  | Twitter  |
> > > LinkedIn  |
> Facebook
> > >  | Soundcloud
> > >  | Quora
> > > 
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Forwarded message -
> > > From: Martin Šoltis 
> > > Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:41 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [darktable-user] Brush
> > > To: 
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, yes
> > >
> > > i know all masks but i always miss this one feature that when in brush
> > > exposure multiple times over one place it will do more times mask that
> i
> > > want
> > > to do if you understand what i want to explain.
> > >
> > > If not, i will try to find some video of this feature.
> > >
> > > Best  regards.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > On streda 29. júla 2020 2:24:03 CEST Terry Pinfold wrote:
> > > > Hi Martin,
> > > >
> > > >  DT has mask options including drawn and parametric masks. Once
> you
> > >
> > > get
> > >
> > > > used to these they are actually way better than the adjustment brush
> in
> > >
> > > LR.
> > >
> > > > I personally use the path tool for drawn masks as it provides more
> > > > flexibility than the brush tool. I wish the brush tool replicated LRs
> > >
> > > brush
> > >
> > > > tool, but the paths tool for drawn masks leaves LR for dead so I just
> > >
> > > don't
> > >
> > > > bother with the brush tool for creating the masks.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 10:16, komodo  wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to say I highly appreciate your work.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I must say that what i miss is brush as is in the Lightroom.
> > > > >
> > > > > To do some adjustments and do very subtle changes. Is it so big
> >
> > problem
> >
> > > ?
> > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Martin
> > >
> > >
> __
> > >
> > > > > __ darktable user mailing list
> > > > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > > > > dark

Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush

[Martin Šoltis]

Filled. I hope it'll be clear to understand.

https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/5952


On piatok 14. augusta 2020 0:53:57 CEST Martin Šoltis wrote:
> > why don't you file an feature request so you know the dt dev's see your
> > request,
> > 
> > https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/new?assignees=&labels=&t
> > e
> > mplate=feature_request.md&title=
> > 
> > instead of "hoping" one will see your desires on the mail list.
> 
> Thanks Patrick,
> 
> I am sorry, I didn't know there is some feature request thread on github.
> 
> I will fill some.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





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Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush

[Martin Šoltis]

> why don't you file an feature request so you know the dt dev's see your
> request,
>
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/new?assignees=&labels=&te
> mplate=feature_request.md&title=
>
> instead of "hoping" one will see your desires on the mail list.

Thanks Patrick,

I am sorry, I didn't know there is some feature request thread on github.

I will fill some.

Regards

Martin




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Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Martin Šoltis  [08-13-20 17:42]:
> Thanks Burce.
> 
> Yes as you've said IT IS POSSIBLE. But you have to use multiple tools and 
> even 
> then it is not as easy as with brush tool in LR.
> Yes I know there are many people who hates comparison with LR but if there is 
> some good and effective tool I don't think is wrong to learn from this.
> 
> Anyway if some developers read this thread please add this feature into DT if 
> it's possible.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> And with best regards.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> On utorok 11. augusta 2020 2:36:10 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> > Martin,
> > Thanks for the kind words.
> > Is there a way to do it with darktable's current masking tools?
> > Not really.
> > But what I've learned to do is to explore the Mask Blur, Feather, Contrast
> > and whatever the 4th one is (can't quite think of it right now).
> > I can usually get to where I want with those controls, but I'll confess, a
> > brush tool like Lightroom would be awesome.
> > Cheers,
> > Bruce Williams
> > --
> > Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> > 
> > brucewilliamsphotography.com
> > shuttersincpodcast.com
> > 
> > e-mail  | Twitter  |
> > LinkedIn  | Facebook
> >  | Soundcloud
> >  | Quora
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Forwarded message -
> > From: Martin Šoltis 
> > Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush
> > To: 
> > 
> > 
> > I see it's dificult to describe but yes you get it :-)
> > 
> > That's exactly what I thought.
> > 
> > So it's possible to do something like this ?
> > 
> > Btw. Thanks Bruce to explain what i didn't know to explain.
> > I am not English native and sometimes I am struggling to explain what i
> > have
> > on my mind.
> > 
> > And your videos are really great.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > On utorok 11. augusta 2020 1:59:14 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> > > Ahhh, I think I get it.
> > > A brush that you can set to a low opacity and then just continue to brush
> > > multiple times to build up the density of the mask?
> > > Yeah, that would be sweet.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Bruce Williams
> > > --
> > > Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> > > 
> > > brucewilliamsphotography.com
> > > shuttersincpodcast.com
> > > 
> > > e-mail  | Twitter  |
> > > LinkedIn  | Facebook
> > >  | Soundcloud
> > >  | Quora
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- Forwarded message -
> > > From: Martin Šoltis 
> > > Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:41 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [darktable-user] Brush
> > > To: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi, yes
> > > 
> > > i know all masks but i always miss this one feature that when in brush
> > > exposure multiple times over one place it will do more times mask that i
> > > want
> > > to do if you understand what i want to explain.
> > > 
> > > If not, i will try to find some video of this feature.
> > > 
> > > Best  regards.
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > On streda 29. júla 2020 2:24:03 CEST Terry Pinfold wrote:
> > > > Hi Martin,
> > > > 
> > > >  DT has mask options including drawn and parametric masks. Once you
> > > 
> > > get
> > > 
> > > > used to these they are actually way better than the adjustment brush in
> > > 
> > > LR.
> > > 
> > > > I personally use the path tool for drawn masks as it provides more
> > > > flexibility than the brush tool. I wish the brush tool replicated LRs
> > > 
> > > brush
> > > 
> > > > tool, but the paths tool for drawn masks leaves LR for dead so I just
> > > 
> > > don't
> > > 
> > > > bother with the brush tool for creating the masks.
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 10:16, komodo  wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have to say I highly appreciate your work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > But I must say that what i miss is brush as is in the Lightroom.
> > > > > 
> > > > > To do some adjustments and do very subtle changes. Is it so big
> > 
> > problem
> > 
> > > ?
> > > 
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin
> > > 
> > > __
> > > 
> > > > > __ darktable user mailing list
> > > > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > > > > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 
> > 
> > > darktable user mailing list
> > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > 
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > darktable user mailing list
> > > t

Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush

[Martin Šoltis]

Thanks Burce.

Yes as you've said IT IS POSSIBLE. But you have to use multiple tools and even 
then it is not as easy as with brush tool in LR.
Yes I know there are many people who hates comparison with LR but if there is 
some good and effective tool I don't think is wrong to learn from this.

Anyway if some developers read this thread please add this feature into DT if 
it's possible.

Thanks

And with best regards.

Martin


On utorok 11. augusta 2020 2:36:10 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> Martin,
> Thanks for the kind words.
> Is there a way to do it with darktable's current masking tools?
> Not really.
> But what I've learned to do is to explore the Mask Blur, Feather, Contrast
> and whatever the 4th one is (can't quite think of it right now).
> I can usually get to where I want with those controls, but I'll confess, a
> brush tool like Lightroom would be awesome.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Williams
> --
> Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> 
> brucewilliamsphotography.com
> shuttersincpodcast.com
> 
> e-mail  | Twitter  |
> LinkedIn  | Facebook
>  | Soundcloud
>  | Quora
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Martin Šoltis 
> Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: [darktable-user] Brush
> To: 
> 
> 
> I see it's dificult to describe but yes you get it :-)
> 
> That's exactly what I thought.
> 
> So it's possible to do something like this ?
> 
> Btw. Thanks Bruce to explain what i didn't know to explain.
> I am not English native and sometimes I am struggling to explain what i
> have
> on my mind.
> 
> And your videos are really great.
> 
> Martin
> 
> On utorok 11. augusta 2020 1:59:14 CEST Bruce Williams wrote:
> > Ahhh, I think I get it.
> > A brush that you can set to a low opacity and then just continue to brush
> > multiple times to build up the density of the mask?
> > Yeah, that would be sweet.
> > Cheers,
> > Bruce Williams
> > --
> > Mobile:  +61 41 250 6349
> > 
> > brucewilliamsphotography.com
> > shuttersincpodcast.com
> > 
> > e-mail  | Twitter  |
> > LinkedIn  | Facebook
> >  | Soundcloud
> >  | Quora
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Forwarded message -
> > From: Martin Šoltis 
> > Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [darktable-user] Brush
> > To: 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, yes
> > 
> > i know all masks but i always miss this one feature that when in brush
> > exposure multiple times over one place it will do more times mask that i
> > want
> > to do if you understand what i want to explain.
> > 
> > If not, i will try to find some video of this feature.
> > 
> > Best  regards.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > On streda 29. júla 2020 2:24:03 CEST Terry Pinfold wrote:
> > > Hi Martin,
> > > 
> > >  DT has mask options including drawn and parametric masks. Once you
> > 
> > get
> > 
> > > used to these they are actually way better than the adjustment brush in
> > 
> > LR.
> > 
> > > I personally use the path tool for drawn masks as it provides more
> > > flexibility than the brush tool. I wish the brush tool replicated LRs
> > 
> > brush
> > 
> > > tool, but the paths tool for drawn masks leaves LR for dead so I just
> > 
> > don't
> > 
> > > bother with the brush tool for creating the masks.
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 10:16, komodo  wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I have to say I highly appreciate your work.
> > > > 
> > > > But I must say that what i miss is brush as is in the Lightroom.
> > > > 
> > > > To do some adjustments and do very subtle changes. Is it so big
> 
> problem
> 
> > ?
> > 
> > > > Thanks
> > > > 
> > > > Martin
> > 
> > __
> > 
> > > > __ darktable user mailing list
> > > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > > > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> d

Re: [darktable-user] base curve always applied even with an empty preference tick box

[KOVÁCS István]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 at 22:43,  wrote:
>
> In darktable 3.0.2 I had the “auto-apply of the base curve” switched off 
> (empty tick box) in the preferences.
> Now in 3.2.1 it does always apply the base curve whether ticked on or not.

In 3.2.1, there are two settings that are related to the base curve:
- processing -> auto-apply pixel workflow defaults: if set to
'display-referred', the base curve will be applied; if set to
'scene-referred', filmic will be applied; if set to none, neither will
be applied
- processing -> auto-apply per camera basecurve presets: if checked, a
camera-specific basecurve (such as Nikon D7000) will be applied
instead of a more generic one (e.g. Nikon)

If you want to skip the base curve, set your workflow defaults to
'scene-referred' or 'none' (and restart darktable).

Kofa

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[darktable-user] base curve always applied even with an empty preference tick box

[marc.cabuy]

Hello,

I am still learning darktable (new since July) and upgraded from 3.0.2 to
3.2.1 on Windows 10.  In darktable 3.0.2 I had the "auto-apply of the base
curve" switched off (empty tick box) in the preferences.  Now in 3.2.1 it
does always apply the base curve whether ticked on or not.  I guess this is
a bug. Is this known ?  And if not where do I report it ?  Also, other
darktable 3.2.1 users may check it on their system/platform.

Marc.  



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Re: [darktable-user] newbie help with old negatives

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

> Avoiding clipping is the most important thing, but also having some
> data to work with is important, too. :-)
> 

If you don't clip channels you capture data good enough for work.
Having older sensor might be a problem, since they tend to produce more
noise in darker areas but I would just overexpose a bit. Trying to get
proper color rendition from old films is pointless. Dyes degrade and
they do it at different speed. It will require further work anyway.

Timur.


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Re: [darktable-user] newbie help with old negatives

[jys]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020, at 23:34, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> I believe white balance is nothing to worry about.

The role of the white balance module is explained here:

 
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/inverting-photos-of-color-negatives-with-darktable/9140/44

How much that step actually matters in practice probably depends on the 
specific camera/color matrix being used, I guess.

> Anyway you adjust channels individually in negadoctor module without any 
> reference to the bulb type. The only thing you should worry about is to get 
> no clipping in individual channels of your "scan".

Avoiding clipping is the most important thing, but also having some data to 
work with is important, too. :-)

When you capture a scene under 2700K lighting, you're capturing very little 
information in the blue channel. Using digital white balance adjustment to 
"correct" this capture so that white objects display as white is similar to 
boosting a very underexposed capture with respect to the blue channel. This is 
something that people try to avoid by exposing correctly, for good reason. Now, 
when using this 2700K source to backlight an orange-masked color negative, you 
are compounding this problem - there's a lot of red spectrum hitting the 
sensor, and very little of the blue (you can see it in the histogram).

Film scanners get around this by exposing each channel for as long as needed 
for a "good" exposure, but you can't do that with a camera. What you *can* do 
is adjust the spectrum of the light source to balance the orange mask, just 
like in an analog darkroom. The good news is that you don't have to get it 
"right", because you can do that digitally later... but if you can get it 
"better", that's better, and probably especially so if your "scanner" is a 
15-year-old sensor with a base ISO of 200.

-- 
jys

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Re: [darktable-user] newbie help with old negatives

[horst]

Hi,

you want to take an image of the emulsion layer (which contains the  
photographic information). You do want to have as little as possible  
in between that layer and your lens, not even the film carrier.

Mirroring can be done in software easily, lost information can't be regained.

Uwe


Quoting Miklós Müller :


Timur,

Why is that happening? Where can i read about that more? Also,  
thanks for the tip on that other forum at  
https://discuss.pixls.us/tags/play_raw.

M

On 2020. Aug 13., at AM 6:37, Timur Irikovich Davletshin  
 wrote:

Well, in this case you may be losing in resolution. But it is up to
you. If it works and you're satisfied with results - do it :)

Timur.


On Thu, 2020-08-13 at 00:46 +0200, Miklós Müller wrote:
Except that I always feed the films with the emulsion side facing the
lamp of the enlarger... so i get the right flip (i.e readable text).
Or do i get something wrong?

M


On 2020. Aug 13., at AM 12:10, Timur Irikovich Davletshin <
timur.davlets...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is the only proper way of scanning. Judging by your scanning
setup
I was right.
Timur.

On Wed, 2020-08-12 at 23:23 +0200, Miklós Müller wrote:
This message of yours somehow did not get thru the list, but I
managed to catch it on the mail-archive web site:
"Why don't you flip it in horizontal direction? If scanned from
emulsion
side it should be flipped."
How do you spot that it was scanned on emulsion side?
thanks:
m
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 5:46 PM Timur Irikovich Davletshin <
timur.davlets...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's the scanning rig BTW:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8dUqTJkvmsdm9BTY8

OMG, looks heavy. Don't break your lens mount.
___

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