Re: [dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Niefer wrote: > dash-dev-boun...@eclipse.org wrote on 06/01/2010 12:56:57 PM: > > From: > > Miles Parker > > > I've had the same question / issue. What I've discovered is that PDE > > build is so (oddly) orthogonal to feature / plugin build that they > > almost feel disconnected. What actually needs to change I think is > > the PDE infrastructure so that it more closely aligns with the > > plugin / feature build approach. > > I'm not quite sure what you are saying here, I suspect the first sentence was > intended to say product build is orthogonal to feature/plugin build? > Yes, that's what I meant, thanks. > > The productBuild.xml is just a convenient wrapper that generates a feature > for you based on your .product file and has a allElements.xml provided for > you. It is just a simplification to make things easier. > Right, I wasn't referring to the build artifacts at all. I'm actually referring to the bigger picture here -- how the universe of Eclipse artifacts are organized and defined. > > Ultimately a product build _is_ a feature build that defines one additional > property: > "product=/path/to/.product" > So that's simply a pointer, but again my point has to do with the broader issue of why that pointer is even needed. On the actual product design side, which is the only thing that Eclipse developers should have to be concerned with there is a whole lot of other meta-data that is kept in .product. > > I have never tried, and I'm not sure what Athena is doing on top of PDE, but > I would bet that Athena can build products just by adding the "product" > property (assuming you've written an appropriate top level feature). > I bet not, but a bet I would **love** to lose.. :D > > For example, it's still not clear > > to me why instead of the .product and related stuff, products aren't > > simply setup as projects with product spcific meta-data in say a > > product.xml file. > > Product specific meta-data is exactly what the .product file is. You can put > it in its own project and call it product.xml if you want. But having a > wizard to create a new "product project" instead of a new "product > configuration" doesn't really change anything. > Yes, that's exactly what I want. Put it in it's own project and call it "product.xml". That's the idea. It would change a lot because it would no longer be this weird situation where a product is tacked on somewhere in the rest of your artifacts with no mapping to a project structure. And it would show up in the standard PDE dialog, etc. etc.. -Miles ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
dash-dev-boun...@eclipse.org wrote on 06/01/2010 12:56:57 PM: > From: > Miles Parker > I've had the same question / issue. What I've discovered is that PDE > build is so (oddly) orthogonal to feature / plugin build that they > almost feel disconnected. What actually needs to change I think is > the PDE infrastructure so that it more closely aligns with the > plugin / feature build approach. I'm not quite sure what you are saying here, I suspect the first sentence was intended to say product build is orthogonal to feature/plugin build? The productBuild.xml is just a convenient wrapper that generates a feature for you based on your .product file and has a allElements.xml provided for you. It is just a simplification to make things easier. Ultimately a product build _is_ a feature build that defines one additional property: "product=/path/to/.product" I have never tried, and I'm not sure what Athena is doing on top of PDE, but I would bet that Athena can build products just by adding the "product" property (assuming you've written an appropriate top level feature). > For example, it's still not clear > to me why instead of the .product and related stuff, products aren't > simply setup as projects with product spcific meta-data in say a > product.xml file. Product specific meta-data is exactly what the .product file is. You can put it in its own project and call it product.xml if you want. But having a wizard to create a new "product project" instead of a new "product configuration" doesn't really change anything. -Andrew___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
Personally, that falls into the category of YABT. ;D On Jun 1, 2010, at 2:01 PM, David Carver wrote: > Another option is Maven/Tycho as Nick suggested earlier. I'm starting to > become a fan boy of tycho. It has it's quirks, but the overall speed > improvements I'm seeing are making me a convert. > > You can also do product based builds with it as well. > > > Dave > > On 06/01/2010 09:56 AM, Miles Parker wrote: >> I've had the same question / issue. What I've discovered is that PDE build >> is so (oddly) orthogonal to feature / plugin build that they almost feel >> disconnected. What actually needs to change I think is the PDE >> infrastructure so that it more closely aligns with the plugin / feature >> build approach. For example, it's still not clear to me why instead of the >> .product and related stuff, products aren't simply setup as projects with >> product spcific meta-data in say a product.xml file. And I also discovered >> that even with feature based support, it doesn't really work that way when >> you get down to cross-platform deployment. Then you're having to deal with >> all of these individual plugins. >> >> People have suggested that Buckminster might be a way to handle both cases >> seamlessly but I personally haven't had more time to devote to building >> infrastructure so I'm down to doing my product builds manually on my >> development machine... >> >> On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, Nick Boldt wrote: >> >> >>> Building RCP products is out of scope for Athena - it's only meant for >>> building *projects*. >>> >>> That said it's simply a wrapper for PDE so if you can do products w/ PDE >>> you can probably do them w/ Athena too. >>> >>> One thing you might look at for product builds is Tycho/Maven3: >>> >>> http://software.2206966.n2.nabble.com/Multi-platform-product-build-td3651509.html >>> >>> Using Tycho, Maven can read manifest.mf and feature.xml files to generate >>> the target platform against which to build. It can produce plugin/feature >>> jars, update sites (complete w/ p2 metadata), and - while I haven't tried >>> it myself - products too. >>> >>> Nick >>> >>> On 05/28/2010 09:05 AM, Ash Maurya wrote: >>> Hello Nick - I've been looking for something like Athena for a while. Does Athena work with RCP products ? We had a continuous integration server going with Pluginbuilder (you might be aware of that project). But that stopped working once we moved to Eclipse 3.5 and there hasn't been much movement on that project. Am hoping Athena is the answer. Best, Ash --- Founder, WiredReach (makers of BoxCloud and CloudFire) blog: http://www.ashmaurya.com >>> -- >>> Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com >>> Release Engineer :: Eclipse Modeling& Dash Athena >>> ___ >>> dash-dev mailing list >>> dash-dev@eclipse.org >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev >>> >> ___ >> dash-dev mailing list >> dash-dev@eclipse.org >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev >> >> > > > ___ > dash-dev mailing list > dash-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
Another option is Maven/Tycho as Nick suggested earlier. I'm starting to become a fan boy of tycho. It has it's quirks, but the overall speed improvements I'm seeing are making me a convert. You can also do product based builds with it as well. Dave On 06/01/2010 09:56 AM, Miles Parker wrote: I've had the same question / issue. What I've discovered is that PDE build is so (oddly) orthogonal to feature / plugin build that they almost feel disconnected. What actually needs to change I think is the PDE infrastructure so that it more closely aligns with the plugin / feature build approach. For example, it's still not clear to me why instead of the .product and related stuff, products aren't simply setup as projects with product spcific meta-data in say a product.xml file. And I also discovered that even with feature based support, it doesn't really work that way when you get down to cross-platform deployment. Then you're having to deal with all of these individual plugins. People have suggested that Buckminster might be a way to handle both cases seamlessly but I personally haven't had more time to devote to building infrastructure so I'm down to doing my product builds manually on my development machine... On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, Nick Boldt wrote: Building RCP products is out of scope for Athena - it's only meant for building *projects*. That said it's simply a wrapper for PDE so if you can do products w/ PDE you can probably do them w/ Athena too. One thing you might look at for product builds is Tycho/Maven3: http://software.2206966.n2.nabble.com/Multi-platform-product-build-td3651509.html Using Tycho, Maven can read manifest.mf and feature.xml files to generate the target platform against which to build. It can produce plugin/feature jars, update sites (complete w/ p2 metadata), and - while I haven't tried it myself - products too. Nick On 05/28/2010 09:05 AM, Ash Maurya wrote: Hello Nick - I've been looking for something like Athena for a while. Does Athena work with RCP products ? We had a continuous integration server going with Pluginbuilder (you might be aware of that project). But that stopped working once we moved to Eclipse 3.5 and there hasn't been much movement on that project. Am hoping Athena is the answer. Best, Ash --- Founder, WiredReach (makers of BoxCloud and CloudFire) blog: http://www.ashmaurya.com -- Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com Release Engineer :: Eclipse Modeling& Dash Athena ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
Re: [dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
I've had the same question / issue. What I've discovered is that PDE build is so (oddly) orthogonal to feature / plugin build that they almost feel disconnected. What actually needs to change I think is the PDE infrastructure so that it more closely aligns with the plugin / feature build approach. For example, it's still not clear to me why instead of the .product and related stuff, products aren't simply setup as projects with product spcific meta-data in say a product.xml file. And I also discovered that even with feature based support, it doesn't really work that way when you get down to cross-platform deployment. Then you're having to deal with all of these individual plugins. People have suggested that Buckminster might be a way to handle both cases seamlessly but I personally haven't had more time to devote to building infrastructure so I'm down to doing my product builds manually on my development machine... On May 28, 2010, at 6:57 AM, Nick Boldt wrote: > Building RCP products is out of scope for Athena - it's only meant for > building *projects*. > > That said it's simply a wrapper for PDE so if you can do products w/ PDE you > can probably do them w/ Athena too. > > One thing you might look at for product builds is Tycho/Maven3: > > http://software.2206966.n2.nabble.com/Multi-platform-product-build-td3651509.html > > Using Tycho, Maven can read manifest.mf and feature.xml files to generate the > target platform against which to build. It can produce plugin/feature jars, > update sites (complete w/ p2 metadata), and - while I haven't tried it myself > - products too. > > Nick > > On 05/28/2010 09:05 AM, Ash Maurya wrote: >> Hello Nick - >> >> I've been looking for something like Athena for a while. Does Athena work >> with RCP products ? >> >> We had a continuous integration server going with Pluginbuilder (you might >> be aware of that project). But that stopped working once we moved to Eclipse >> 3.5 and there hasn't been much movement on that project. Am hoping Athena is >> the answer. >> >> Best, >> >> Ash >> --- >> Founder, WiredReach (makers of BoxCloud and CloudFire) >> blog: http://www.ashmaurya.com >> > > -- > Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com > Release Engineer :: Eclipse Modeling & Dash Athena > ___ > dash-dev mailing list > dash-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
[dash-dev] Re: Athena and RCP
Building RCP products is out of scope for Athena - it's only meant for building *projects*. That said it's simply a wrapper for PDE so if you can do products w/ PDE you can probably do them w/ Athena too. One thing you might look at for product builds is Tycho/Maven3: http://software.2206966.n2.nabble.com/Multi-platform-product-build-td3651509.html Using Tycho, Maven can read manifest.mf and feature.xml files to generate the target platform against which to build. It can produce plugin/feature jars, update sites (complete w/ p2 metadata), and - while I haven't tried it myself - products too. Nick On 05/28/2010 09:05 AM, Ash Maurya wrote: Hello Nick - I've been looking for something like Athena for a while. Does Athena work with RCP products ? We had a continuous integration server going with Pluginbuilder (you might be aware of that project). But that stopped working once we moved to Eclipse 3.5 and there hasn't been much movement on that project. Am hoping Athena is the answer. Best, Ash --- Founder, WiredReach (makers of BoxCloud and CloudFire) blog: http://www.ashmaurya.com -- Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com Release Engineer :: Eclipse Modeling & Dash Athena ___ dash-dev mailing list dash-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
