Re: The tone of discussion on this list

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019, Steve Langasek wrote:

Hi Steve, 

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 07:47:42PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Mar 2019, Ghassan_Kanafani wrote:
> 
> > > Can you provide the definitions of anti-semitism and "antirealism" that
> > > you're using?
> 
> > No, this is something that can't be pressed in a proper definition. But if
> > people think that sentences like: 
> 
> > "Either way this ignores the fact that Israel has been murdering Muslims for
> > countless years and the state of Israel sits on occupied Palestinian land.
> > Debian having a conference in contestedland where military conflict and
> > oppressive acts are occurring is unacceptable."
> > (Just one example). 
> 
> > are acceptable on our lists they are wrong.  We can of course now start
> > constructing sentences like those for muslims, hindus or whatever ethnical
> > group.  But I don't want to see someone going that route.
> 
> > So we either discuss in a constructive way or we should stop that
> > discussion now.
> 
> I welcome the listmasters reminding us that we are a community and that the
> tone of our discussions should correspond, and I acknowledge your statement
> that the above message is not acceptable for this reason.
> 
> But as a fellow Debian Developer, I must object to the implication that this
> particular statement is antisemitic.  It is not antisemitic to object to the
> policies of the Israeli government.  It is not antisemitic to characterize
> the actions of the Israeli government as "murder", any more than it is to do
> so in regards to the actions of my own government.
> 
> This is a problematic topic all around; please do not make it more
> problematic with unsubstantiated accusations of racism.
I did not wanted to say its antisemetic, I wanted to say that we don't want
to see either antisemetic _or_ antiisrelism. In my experience most discussions
starting with antiisrealiasm will end with being antisemetic. 

Sorry for not being clear. I just wanted to draw a line for that discussion
that we shouldn't cross. 

Alex



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Re: The tone of discussion on this list

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019, Nasir El-Amin wrote:

> So just to clarify your stance is that stating historically factual 
> statements about human rights violations in a country where the project has 
> decided to whole an event and where people of specific faiths and ethnicity 
> will be excluded is off limits? Because that’s what your quoted statement was 
> addressing.
We can state historically factual statements for all over the world for
years, probably for every country where a debconf ever happened. But that
don't take us any further in that discussion. 

> 
> I just want to be clear so others know they cannot publicly criticize the 
> project for these reasons which are all factual.
> 
> Also can you refer to any project policy or rule that’s documented publicly 
> that prohibits this? You state that such is not allowed is that a rule you 
> made up on the fly or is it documented somewhere?

From our policy: 
* The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian. 
Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not 
welcome.
* Try not to flame; it is not polite.
* Use common sense all the time.

From the CoC: 

* Be respectful
* Assume good faith

Alex

The tone of discussion on this list

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi, 

this is a warning and note from us listmasters. Please come back to a
civilized discussion style. I don't want to see any antisemitism or
antisrealism on that list. Either you have something substantial to add to
the _debconf_ discussion or please don't take part in that discussion.
Otherwise listmaster will have to honor that behaviour. 

Alex - Debian Listmaster 


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