Re: systemd woes continue

2019-07-11 Thread John Blake
It's been a year or two since I last tried to install the experimental 
debian alpha image on my DS10L, and my abiding memory of the last 
attempt was banging my head against a problem with creating BSD 
disklabel on the ide hard drive due to fdisk being updated a few years 
prior to remove the older functionality of BSD disklabels and the 
instructions not having been updated since then, and the people I asked 
for help had simply been updating their systems instead of doing fresh 
installs.  The BSD disklabel is required for SRM/IDE systems, and this 
system will dual boot from two separate drives alongside a functional 
VMS install.  I did eventually get the disklabel written using an old 
version of fdisk through a process I've since forgotten.


It's on hold for the moment as I tried to run a Gentoo install on the 
drive a few hours ago and it appears that the drive is dead, so I'll 
need to buy a new drive before I try again.


On 7/11/2019 11:11 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

Hi John!

On 7/11/19 2:48 PM, John Blake wrote:

I have a DS10L 617mhz and I can't figure out which version is the best to 
attempt to install on it.  I'd rather avoid things like this issue with systemd 
where they obviously haven't tried to actually test it on an alpha processor, 
but I have no problem with recompiling things as necessary (although I would 
like to avoid the Gentoo path of recompiling everything).

systemd works the same way on my Alpha XP-1000 as it works on my Intel boxes.

I assume you are talking about the non-functionality of a separate /usr 
partition,
but this is something that isn't guaranteed to work well on Linux, no matter 
whether
one uses systemd or any other type of init daemon.


The other question I have is whether or not someone has fixed the issue with 
fdisk on the system, because I remember the last time I tried to install linux 
on the system in question, it wouldn't format the drive with a BSD partition as 
was necessary and after some discussion on some mailing list or another it was 
discovered that the required functionality had been phased out of fdisk a few 
years before, and nobody had noticed on either side that it made it impossible 
to follow the given directions on the FAQ/wiki.  It was still being 
automatically included with the distro and at the time I had to burn an ancient 
stable version just to put the partition table right in order to install.

debian-installer doesn't use fdisk (anymore), it uses partman. Did you try any 
of
the recent installation images, see [1]. Please note these images are currently
shipped without proprietary firmware.

Adrian


[1] https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-07-07/




Re: systemd woes continue

2019-07-11 Thread John Blake
This brings up a question I need to ask of the people who know best on 
this mailing list:


I have a DS10L 617mhz and I can't figure out which version is the best 
to attempt to install on it.  I'd rather avoid things like this issue 
with systemd where they obviously haven't tried to actually test it on 
an alpha processor, but I have no problem with recompiling things as 
necessary (although I would like to avoid the Gentoo path of recompiling 
everything).


The other question I have is whether or not someone has fixed the issue 
with fdisk on the system, because I remember the last time I tried to 
install linux on the system in question, it wouldn't format the drive 
with a BSD partition as was necessary and after some discussion on some 
mailing list or another it was discovered that the required 
functionality had been phased out of fdisk a few years before, and 
nobody had noticed on either side that it made it impossible to follow 
the given directions on the FAQ/wiki.  It was still being automatically 
included with the distro and at the time I had to burn an ancient stable 
version just to put the partition table right in order to install.


On 7/11/2019 11:54 AM, Bob Tracy wrote:

Greetings.  It has been a while since I last checked in.  Thought I'd
let the rest of the Alpha community know I'm still around :-).

I'm up and running on kernel version 5.2.0, built from the kernel.org
source tree as is my usual pattern.  The previous kernel running on my
system was 5.1.0-rc7.  Between then and today, something changed in user
space that made the expected drop into systemd's "emergency mode" more
painful than usual.

First, "systemd" still cannot handle systems with persistent filesystems
other than "/" and "/usr".  As far as I know, the bug report I filed
against "systemd" is still open, and no progress has been made on that
front.

The added complication when I rebooted the system today was multiple
processes attempting to read input from the console at the same time.
Both the old kernel and the new one behaved identically, which is why
I'm assuming a problem with userspace.  If you immediately type in the
"root" password when prompted (without waiting for additional background
init tasks to finish), things work normally up to the point where the
console font gets loaded.  Sometime after that, part of what you type
goes to the command line, and the rest goes to ???.  Tty echo is
disabled, so you can't tell which input characters are going to the
interactive shell, and which ones are going to ???.

A workaround I discovered by accident is to keep typing "\n"
until the "emergency mode" shell exits and "systemd" attempts to
continue with normal startup.  That fails, and "systemd" drops back into
"emergency mode" again.  However, only an interactive shell is listening
at that point, so you can go about the usual cleanup tasks (run "fsck" on
the remaining filesystems, mount them, bring up the primary network
interface, etc.), and *then* type "" to continue with normal
system startup.

If you wait until *after* the console font gets loaded before trying to
type the "root" password, the only way forward might be to try typing
"\n" multiple times until "systemd" attempts to continue with
normal startup, fails, and then drops you back into "emergency mode"
again.  I didn't try that.  Typing "" works, at least,
to restart the system and give you another crack at entering the "root"
password immediately after the "emergency mode" prompt appears.

No idea which startup process is competing with the "emergency mode"
interactive shell for input from the console keyboard.

--Bob