Re: Commercial programs in Debian
On Tuesday 09 May 2006 00:17, Sam Varghese wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 06:19:44PM +0200 Francesco Pietra said:
On Monday 08 May 2006 18:34, A J Stiles wrote:
On Monday 08 May 2006 15:46, Francesco Pietra wrote:
However, there is scientific proprietary software from small
softwarehouses that has decades of experience and development, is
sold with accompanying source code, and solves problems that debian
is quite far from solving. Again, don't ask me the names because I am
not advertising (and I am user not softwarehouse) but I believe that
such softwarehouses deserve full support. They have my support.
There is an important distinction between software like this {the
traditional model, dating back to the days when Source Code was the
only thing any two systems might have in common}, and proprietary,
closed-source software which is distributed as a binary executable only
{and requires a homogeneous execution environment; something which has
only really become possible recently with the dominance of the 80%86
architecture and Windows}. It's not Free software because it can't be
distributed freely; but at least the vendor respects the purchaser's
right to inspect and modify the Source Code
I would like to intervene again about the last paragraph. I read your
statemente It's not Free software... but at least.. as placing Free
Software at a a higher (socially higher) level than Proprietary Software
(meant in the terms I specified above). If I read correctly, I disagree.
I disagree because that Proprietary Software allows me to do reseach work
that I could not otherwise carry out. The inventor who built the
softwarehouse lives from his invention and from his constant improvement
of the product (which generally is, how you could easily imagine, small
business). Would you not agree to support him? He does great service to
the society. (again I declare not to have any commercial involvment with
any software house, although from time to time i helped to improve the
product by using it, while I never claimed to get that acknowledged
because I live from chemical research).
Do you really believe that a business is set up for any other purpose
than to make money? The person running the business may create good
products but that is a matter of his/her own business practices; for
every good product there are 99 card-sharpers.
When it comes to software and hardware, businesses try to get and keep
your business using lock-in. Period. That their software and hardware
does what you need is purely incidental.
Having spent the last two days trying to source a laptop for my teenaged
daughter, I can tell you that I have about had it with the manufacturers
and the way they literally force you to buy what they have on display.
They can do this because apart from the drive and the memory, everything
else is built according to their own design. If the laptop had been
commoditised the way the PC is, there would be an entirely different
situation.
Free software does not lock you in because the standards are open.
Sam
--
Sam Varghese
http://www.gnubies.com
The chief virtue that language can have is clearness, and nothing detracts
from it so much as the use of unfamiliar words.
My PGP key: http://www.gnubies.com/encryption/sign.txt
We are talking about different worlds, different sectors of the world. The
world I alluded to does exist. Surely as one of rare spots but it exists as I
described.
francesco
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Re: Bug#366002: aiccu: Lack of AMD64 package
A Divendres 05 Maig 2006 12:23, Anand Kumria va escriure: On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 12:55:06PM +0200, William Anderle wrote: Package: aiccu Severity: wishlist Debian still lacks an AMD64 package of AICCU. Even tough this is a feature request, the lack of this package is pretty severe. Other distributions (FreeBSD, Gentoo) already provides a AMD64 build. Hi William, I do not have an AMD64 machine to build the package for; and (apparently) none of the autobuilders want to build this package (probably because it is non-free). You'll need to convince an autobuilder to build it, or do yourself. if you choose the latter option I can walk you through the process. I have read the licence and I don't see any important requeriment to not be a Open Source or follow the debian policy. However, I'm not an expert, so probably there's some detail that escapes from my poor knowledge . Regards, Leo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#366177: Info received (was Bug#366177: [amd64] Tyan S2877 installation-report)
Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the package maintainer(s) and to other interested parties to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Install Team debian-boot@lists.debian.org If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED], as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial programs in Debian
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 08:17:59AM +1000, Sam Varghese wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Do you really believe that a business is set up for any other purpose than to make money? Some are. Some are not. Making money is a constraint -- the business that does not make money vanishes from the face of the earth. It may not be the purpose. But the founder of a business may well be following his bliss in setting up the business, because he really *wants* to paint water colours, write software, build houses, etc. So he sets up a business doing that. And if luck is with him and he does the necessary financial analysis the business prospers. Some people, when they tired of the work, when it ceases to be a joy, closed their prosperous businesses find something else to do. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Where are XF86VidModeQueryVersion and XF86VidModeGetModeLine?OD
How does one find the package conaining the library containing the definition of a specific external symbol? Packages.org seems to enable me to locate a package from parts of its name of parts of the names of its constituent files, but I need to resolve an external reference. Or are one of my packages defective? The stuff worked when using sarge on an i686 machine. Is this just a temporary symptom of a distribution in transition? Here are the technical details, originally posted on debian-user without response. On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 06:41:49PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hace compiled a program many times on an a386 etch system using the command: gcc -g -L/usr/lib/ -lglut -lGLU -lGL -ljpeg rj.c jp.c -o i686/jp Now, however, I am compiling it on an AMD64 machine, also running etch. The command I used is gcc -g -L/usr/lib/ -lglut -lGLU -lGL -ljpeg rj.c jp.c -o x86_64/jp Much the same, except I use an architecture-specific directory for my architecture-specific object file. But on AND-64 I get gcc -g -L/usr/lib/ -lglut -lGLU -lGL -ljpeg rj.c jp.c -o x86_64/jp /usr/lib//libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML': (.text+0x2da1): undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion' /usr/lib//libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML': (.text+0x2dd4): undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [x86_64/jp] Error 1 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/dv/im$ Now presumably this means that some library is missing. Or contains maverick references to XF86 code (my systems both run xorg, and have not been promoted to xorg 7.0 yet.) I'm not sure the problem is AMD-64-specific; I might well have accidentally done something weird in the course of history. What's missing? Or is one of the libraries defective on AMD64? -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: VIA VT8251 low performance (was: ASUS A8V-MX)
Lennart wrote: [...] Or with the speed of the drive This calls for additional testing. Here are the drives I used for testing on this VT8251 (AHCI) south bridge on Asus A8V-VM: - Western Digital WD1600 Caviar SE 160 GB 7k2 RPM - Hitacht DeskStar T7K250 HDT722525DLA300 250 GB 7k2 RPM Both with about the same results. @Lennart: Do you think these drives can't give a better performace? /tmp is residing not on the sata hdd but on an old ide disk doing 7200 rpm. can you please measure the speed you're getting on VT8251 / SATA? Still unable to install onto the sata hdd, as the installer isos are failing to detect the bus+hdd. Using the sata hdd as a storage area as of now. ;) you can get it booting: - get or build a kernel which supports the hardware through compiled-in drivers and does not need initrd. Add needed file systems support as well. (You may try do it with initrd (use mkinitramfs) as well.) - create, activate and format a root / boot partition on the sata drive - backup then change /boot/grub/menue.lst and /etc/fstab - copy the data (cp -a) excluding /proc/* and /sys/* - reboot HTH, Zrin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial programs in Debian
On Tuesday 09 May 2006 15:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 08:17:59AM +1000, Sam Varghese wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Do you really believe that a business is set up for any other purpose than to make money? Some are. Some are not. Making money is a constraint -- the business that does not make money vanishes from the face of the earth. It may not be the purpose. But the founder of a business may well be following his bliss in setting up the business, because he really *wants* to paint water colours, write software, build houses, etc. So he sets up a business doing that. And if luck is with him and he does the necessary financial analysis the business prospers. Some people, when they tired of the work, when it ceases to be a joy, closed their prosperous businesses find something else to do. -- hendrik At any event, because the product is excellet and has so long an experience (having been transferred from mainfraime to the first IBM PC at those early days and then reshaped for unix) to have no good competitor, it makes money. Not the money Gates has made but would you like to be a Gates? I do not, as I would not like to be a Berlusconi. Beg pardon for the comparison between the two, it is not deserved. It is not deserved to compare selling goods or smoke. francesco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VIA VT8251 low performance (was: ASUS A8V-MX)
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 05:29:52PM +0200, Ziborski KEG wrote: This calls for additional testing. Here are the drives I used for testing on this VT8251 (AHCI) south bridge on Asus A8V-VM: - Western Digital WD1600 Caviar SE 160 GB 7k2 RPM - Hitacht DeskStar T7K250 HDT722525DLA300 250 GB 7k2 RPM Both with about the same results. @Lennart: Do you think these drives can't give a better performace? I think they should be able to. Which kernel version are you running? I am mainly using 2.6.15 and 2.6.16 at this time. /tmp is residing not on the sata hdd but on an old ide disk doing 7200 rpm. That is one way to slow down /tmp. Usually the oposite is desired,hence the often used tmpfs for /tmp. can you please measure the speed you're getting on VT8251 / SATA? Well the speed I get here is: Asus A8V Deluxe: Via VT6420 SATA controller with WD2500JD drive: Timing buffered disk reads: 172 MB in 3.01 seconds = 57.17 MB/sec Asus P4P800: Intel ICH5R SATA controller with WD1600JD drive: Timing buffered disk reads: 172 MB in 3.01 seconds = 57.21 MB/sec Asus P4P800: Promise TX2200 SATA controller with WD2500JD drive: Timing buffered disk reads: 176 MB in 3.02 seconds = 58.21 MB/sec Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe: Sil3112A SATA controller with WD1200JD drive: Timing buffered disk reads: 152 MB in 3.04 seconds = 50.07 MB/sec If it gets a lot less than that I really wonder if something is keeping the disk busy, or if there is another problem with the setup of the system. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Etch/Sid not installable on amd64
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 05:07:20PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I tried to install almost all versions of Sid/Etch but the debia installer always says could not install grub to /target/. Any idea ? I'm installing from a USB thumbdrive using hd-media/boot.img.gz (btw good work done with the usb keyboard freeze since Sarge !) to a 10GB partitin. My system : MSI K8N neo4 Platinium/AMD Athlon 64 4000+/ 120 GB SATA Maxtor/USB keyboard and mouse. Mmmm, another amd64 ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
incomplete install
Hi, list: I am trying to install Etch on a laptop. Actually,the install goes well, but nor KDE, nor Gnome will install due to dependencies problems, too numerus to list here. Has anyone experienced the same problem, or am I doing something wrong? Thierry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
