Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
On Tuesday, 6. November 2007 18:58, Jonas Meurer wrote: > On 06/11/2007 Hartmut Manz wrote: > > The correct debian port for INTEL Core2Duo is amd64 or i386. > > If your system has not more than 2 GB of memory installed I would recommend > > to still use the 32bit Linux (i386), If you have more memory installed use > > the 64-bit Linux (amd64) > > Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does > the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? I am running debian 64bit on my office PC while I am running 32bit kubuntu on my home pc. Since both machine are 64bit capable, the only reason is multimedia and internet. With a 32bit version it's much simpler to have a full working machine for that purposes since flash player, acrobat reader or some codecs could be installed without any pain. Hartmut Manz > > greetings, > jonas > > > -- Gott spricht: Siehe, ich will ein Neues schaffen, jetzt wächst es auf, erkennt ihr's denn nicht? Jesaia 43, 19a
Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:05:26AM +0100, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote: On Tue, 2007-11-06 at 13:35 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:58:15PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? A few programs still don't compile or work on 64bit systems (not amd64 Any real-world examples? Even OpenOffice runs as 64bit since months. The only which I remember rumors are "grub". But being a bootloader, Grub on Etch amd64 works just fine. the issue with grub is that it does not yet support EFI64 that probably doesn't hurt much. Fact is that I run pure 64bit Linux since months on my home desktop (though I'm not the typical desktop user;-). specific, just 64bit system specific), but other than that generally no disadvantages. I guess you could say that the fact the programs are slightly bigger (since all pointers become 8 bytes rather than 4) is a disadvantage, but on the other hand a lot of code runs slightly faster with 64bit, with a Yes, x86_64 has more registers than i386. few types of programs running much faster. A few very very pointer heavy programs might run slightly slower, although I don't know of any where this is the case. In short: FUD?! Len Sorensen knows a lot about running amd64. Consider that before you write off what he says as FUD. [...] The main missing programs seem to be things which are closed source, so adobe flash, acrobat reader, etc. Some of these do have more or less functional open source replacements. Video codecs can also be a Some browsers (konqueror, firefox as far as I've been told) allow to run 32bit plugins from the 64bit version. Since the flash-plugin and others is not really important for me, I don't really care. Well, you're wrong. In Lenny, there's a wrapper that does this but in Etch it doesn't exist and can't be backported. So flash in Etch needs the ia-32 chroot. I don't know if anything else does since I don't use them. problems since many are 32bit windows code only. Some people just run the few problem programs in a 32bit chroot and deal with it that way, Or install 32bit libs and run a 32bit browser/application on the x86_64 installation. May or may not work, depending on the code and what all libs it needs. which seems to make a lot of sense. I suspect pretty soon these problems will go away, although it may not happen until windows users finally get with the program and start doing 64bit there. Yes, but that implies "Vista" there and God knows how compatible (even to pre-Vista Windoze) the result will be. -- Jerome BENOIT jgmbenoit_at_mailsnare_dot_net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:05:26AM +0100, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote: > On Tue, 2007-11-06 at 13:35 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:58:15PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: > > > Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does > > > the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? > > > > A few programs still don't compile or work on 64bit systems (not amd64 > > Any real-world examples? > Even OpenOffice runs as 64bit since months. > The only which I remember rumors are "grub". But being a bootloader, Grub on Etch amd64 works just fine. > that probably doesn't hurt much. > Fact is that I run pure 64bit Linux since months on my home desktop > (though I'm not the typical desktop user;-). > > > specific, just 64bit system specific), but other than that generally no > > disadvantages. > > > I guess you could say that the fact the programs are slightly bigger > > (since all pointers become 8 bytes rather than 4) is a disadvantage, but > > on the other hand a lot of code runs slightly faster with 64bit, with a > > Yes, x86_64 has more registers than i386. > > > few types of programs running much faster. A few very very pointer > > heavy programs might run slightly slower, although I don't know of any > > where this is the case. > > In short: FUD?! > Len Sorensen knows a lot about running amd64. Consider that before you write off what he says as FUD. > [...] > > The main missing programs seem to be things which are closed source, so > > adobe flash, acrobat reader, etc. Some of these do have more or less > > functional open source replacements. Video codecs can also be a > > Some browsers (konqueror, firefox as far as I've been told) allow to run > 32bit plugins from the 64bit version. Since the flash-plugin and others > is not really important for me, I don't really care. > Well, you're wrong. In Lenny, there's a wrapper that does this but in Etch it doesn't exist and can't be backported. So flash in Etch needs the ia-32 chroot. I don't know if anything else does since I don't use them. > > problems since many are 32bit windows code only. Some people just run > > the few problem programs in a 32bit chroot and deal with it that way, > > Or install 32bit libs and run a 32bit browser/application on the x86_64 > installation. May or may not work, depending on the code and what all libs it needs. > > which seems to make a lot of sense. I suspect pretty soon these > > problems will go away, although it may not happen until windows users > > finally get with the program and start doing 64bit there. > > Yes, but that implies "Vista" there and God knows how compatible (even > to pre-Vista Windoze) the result will be. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
On Tue, 2007-11-06 at 13:35 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:58:15PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: > > Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does > > the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? > > A few programs still don't compile or work on 64bit systems (not amd64 Any real-world examples? Even OpenOffice runs as 64bit since months. The only which I remember rumors are "grub". But being a bootloader, that probably doesn't hurt much. Fact is that I run pure 64bit Linux since months on my home desktop (though I'm not the typical desktop user;-). > specific, just 64bit system specific), but other than that generally no > disadvantages. > I guess you could say that the fact the programs are slightly bigger > (since all pointers become 8 bytes rather than 4) is a disadvantage, but > on the other hand a lot of code runs slightly faster with 64bit, with a Yes, x86_64 has more registers than i386. > few types of programs running much faster. A few very very pointer > heavy programs might run slightly slower, although I don't know of any > where this is the case. In short: FUD?! [...] > The main missing programs seem to be things which are closed source, so > adobe flash, acrobat reader, etc. Some of these do have more or less > functional open source replacements. Video codecs can also be a Some browsers (konqueror, firefox as far as I've been told) allow to run 32bit plugins from the 64bit version. Since the flash-plugin and others is not really important for me, I don't really care. > problems since many are 32bit windows code only. Some people just run > the few problem programs in a 32bit chroot and deal with it that way, Or install 32bit libs and run a 32bit browser/application on the x86_64 installation. > which seems to make a lot of sense. I suspect pretty soon these > problems will go away, although it may not happen until windows users > finally get with the program and start doing 64bit there. Yes, but that implies "Vista" there and God knows how compatible (even to pre-Vista Windoze) the result will be. Bernd -- Firmix Software GmbH http://www.firmix.at/ mobil: +43 664 4416156 fax: +43 1 7890849-55 Embedded Linux Development and Services -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Still bugs in Nvidias binary drivers
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:20:15 +0100, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote: > Why do I send this Mail to you ? I know, there is a lot of efforts, to > get stable packets in Debian, but in this case you (the maintainers) > will get no chance to get it stable, instead you work directly together > with Nvidia itself. Before the flamewar starts: the solution is to either use free drivers and/or switch to a vendor (i.e. Intel) that provides free drivers for its range. There is absolutely nothing the xorg or the Debian developers can do about this, and they most likely won't even if they could. And, for the record, I agree with them. Please note I have an Nvidia card on my desktop, but after the good experience on my laptop, my next motherboard will be a fully integrated Intel. Unless AMD comes up with free drivers, but that's another story. -- Best Regards, Jack Linux User #264449 Powered by Debian GNU/Linux on AMD64 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:58:15PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote: > Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does > the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? A few programs still don't compile or work on 64bit systems (not amd64 specific, just 64bit system specific), but other than that generally no disadvantages. I guess you could say that the fact the programs are slightly bigger (since all pointers become 8 bytes rather than 4) is a disadvantage, but on the other hand a lot of code runs slightly faster with 64bit, with a few types of programs running much faster. A few very very pointer heavy programs might run slightly slower, although I don't know of any where this is the case. With 64bit you can memory map much bigger files than with 32bit which can make implementing some programs much simpler and probably more efficient too, so there seems to be many good reasons to move to 64bit. The main missing programs seem to be things which are closed source, so adobe flash, acrobat reader, etc. Some of these do have more or less functional open source replacements. Video codecs can also be a problems since many are 32bit windows code only. Some people just run the few problem programs in a 32bit chroot and deal with it that way, which seems to make a lot of sense. I suspect pretty soon these problems will go away, although it may not happen until windows users finally get with the program and start doing 64bit there. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
Jonas Meurer wrote:
On 06/11/2007 Hartmut Manz wrote:
The correct debian port for INTEL Core2Duo is amd64 or i386.
If your system has not more than 2 GB of memory installed I would recommend
to still use the 32bit Linux (i386), If you have more memory installed use
the 64-bit Linux (amd64)
Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does
the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM?
a 64 bits system consume more memory than a 32 bits system for each
pointer and long (going from 32 bits = 4 bytes to 64 bits = 8 bytes) and
also have higher alignment requirements.
Rumors say that most processes consume about 30% more RAM
Hence the hint (even if the 2Gb RAM threshold is arbitrary)
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email: basilestarynkevitchnet mobile: +33 6 8501 2359
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Re: Intel Core2Duo (T7400)
On 06/11/2007 Hartmut Manz wrote: > The correct debian port for INTEL Core2Duo is amd64 or i386. > If your system has not more than 2 GB of memory installed I would recommend > to still use the 32bit Linux (i386), If you have more memory installed use > the 64-bit Linux (amd64) Do you have any reasons for that suggestion? Which disadvantages does the amd64 port have on system with up to 2GB of RAM? greetings, jonas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Still bugs in Nvidias binary drivers
Dear maintainers, some time ago, I reported about a bug in package nvidia-glx version 100.14.19. The drivers at higher versions than 100.14.09 let the whole system freeze. Obvuously this appears often at mobile graphic chipsets Nvidia 7300 Go. This freeze is distribution independent ! It can be proved, that this bug is in the binary part of Nvidias driver and NOT in the kernel module. You can test it, if you use Nvidias installer. There is also a report on Nvidias homepage about this behaviour. Now I tested the newest driver, version 100.14.23, which seem to run more stable. I could not get a freeze, but some weired actions, i.e. changing from console to X the initilalisation lasted second and the screen was for a very moment black ( < 1 sec). At the end of all my testings it can be verified: 1. The Nvidia binary part is buggy. 2. Version 100.14.09 is working fine and very stable 3. Version 100.14.19 and higher might freeze the system. (This is only discovered on 64-bit systems) 4. Version 100.14.23 seem to run more stable, but has initialization problems. Why do I send this Mail to you ? I know, there is a lot of efforts, to get stable packets in Debian, but in this case you (the maintainers) will get no chance to get it stable, instead you work directly together with Nvidia itself. I just think, you might want to know this informations ! Kind regards Hans -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
