Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Andrew Robinson wrote: Well I made the rough decision last night and switched back to 32b. After reading some benchmarks it didn't look like 64b was going to benefit me much. This is a home desktop computer so the 32b will fit me fine. Just a shame to give up the extra functionality. Perhaps in a few years I may try 64b again when more libraries and software bundles are packaged as 64b. Until then I thought that it would be nice if things "just worked". I maintain a couple of slackware boxes, and it would be nice to finally have one box that is extremely low maintenance. 32bit may indeed be the way to go for you - for now. I still recommend using a 64-bit kernel, while having everything else 32-bit. First, you get a small speedup of the kernel itself. This is hardly noticable as the PC shouldn't spend much time on the kernel anyway. Much more important is that the 64-bit kernel can hand out more memory to the processes than a 32-bit kernel can, because it hides itself outside the 32-bit memory range that the applications live in. This could make a difference if you have 2GB or more memory, the difference between swapping and _not_ swapping can be felt sometimes. Of course, only if you have a process that need so much memory. Helge Hafting -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
I find this whole discussion interesting. I have been using Debian unstable AMD64 for 3 years now. I currently have Ubuntu (32 bit) installed on another partition (as a back up for those rare times when I have upgraded and lost X or had some other temporary problem). I have been thinking about switching over to 32 bit full time for a few months now. Unlike a lot of you this is not a workstation, but a home server and media center - web and file server, music and video server, print server, mythtv computer, etc. I don't care about flash so much, but I would like to use realPlayer, the WMV codecs, wine, Picassa etc (all available for 32 bit) I find it is a pain to set up and maintain all of this in a chroot (and some things don't work in a chroot anyway). I figure that for my uses there is no difference in performance with 64 vs. 32 bit, but I always thought I should at least support the AMD64 community. Craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
> "Robert" == Robert Isaac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> That leaves you with two reasons to have a 32bit chroot, Robert> hardly a headache but it is after all your choice. Myself I Robert> have been using a 32bit chroot mainly for the video codices Robert> and wine since before the release of Sarge and have not had a Robert> single problem that wasn't my fault not to mention having the Robert> best of both worlds, which is what the AMD64 architecture was Robert> designed to provide. Question: How did you setup the 32 bit video codacs? Do you use the 64 bit mplayer or the 32 bit mplayer? Both, the 64 bit mplayer is installed in the 64bit environment along with the 32bit in the chroot with w32codecs from the debian-multimedia repository, also in the chroot. When I find a video that doesn't play 64bit native I open the 32bit version. For the sake of expediency I suppose it would be better to simply use the 32bit player and web-browsers, but opening and closing programs once in a great while does not disturb me in the least. Thanks for any help. Not a problem. Alan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
> "Robert" == Robert Isaac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> That leaves you with two reasons to have a 32bit chroot, Robert> hardly a headache but it is after all your choice. Myself I Robert> have been using a 32bit chroot mainly for the video codices Robert> and wine since before the release of Sarge and have not had a Robert> single problem that wasn't my fault not to mention having the Robert> best of both worlds, which is what the AMD64 architecture was Robert> designed to provide. Question: How did you setup the 32 bit video codacs? Do you use the 64 bit mplayer or the 32 bit mplayer? Thanks for any help. Alan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 12:38:45AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > U?ytkownik edwardsa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisa?: > >I have a question about your claim of performance degradation. See below. > > > ... > > >Is this degradation true for all applications? To be clear, are you > >saying that if > >I compile a fortran code using either pgi, or the 64-bit libraries of > >g77, that it will run more slowly on a 32-bit compatible distro than it > >will on a pure-64 bit Debian? > >If so, why? > > I wrote: "...as someone mentioned here some time ago, this 32bit > compatiblity makes them slower than pure 64bit debian..." > > But it turned out that no one mentioned it here (on the list) - I searched > the list archive and havent found the info and have just remembered that > I read it here: > https://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html#id272321 > > Quote: > "...While architectures like sparc64 or powerpc64, which provide lib for > default 32bit libraries and lib64 for extra 64bit libraries, default to > executing 32bit applications, amd64 defaults to 64bit binaries because of > the performance benefits it offers in 64bit mode..." > > So I don't know exactly what are the benefits, but am beliving what was > written on the above given site. And I don't know why there is a > performance degradation. I think they are referring to comparison between 32- and 64-bit applications. If the word size were half, then data is moved more slowly from memory. Also, 64-bit may have a much richer set of machine instructions so that a given operation can take one clock cycle in 64-bit mode where it might take multiple cycles in 32-bit. If I'm right, then I don't think that there would be any degradation on a distro with mixed 32/64 bit libraries, compared to debian's preference for a chroot. It's more a question of organization. Art Edwards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Użytkownik edwardsa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisał: >I have a question about your claim of performance degradation. See below. > ... >Is this degradation true for all applications? To be clear, are you >saying that if >I compile a fortran code using either pgi, or the 64-bit libraries of >g77, that it will run more slowly on a 32-bit compatible distro than it >will on a pure-64 bit Debian? >If so, why? I wrote: "...as someone mentioned here some time ago, this 32bit compatiblity makes them slower than pure 64bit debian..." But it turned out that no one mentioned it here (on the list) - I searched the list archive and havent found the info and have just remembered that I read it here: https://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html#id272321 Quote: "...While architectures like sparc64 or powerpc64, which provide lib for default 32bit libraries and lib64 for extra 64bit libraries, default to executing 32bit applications, amd64 defaults to 64bit binaries because of the performance benefits it offers in 64bit mode..." So I don't know exactly what are the benefits, but am beliving what was written on the above given site. And I don't know why there is a performance degradation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On 9/1/06, edwardsa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't import powerpoint files. For a government lab, where > productivity can, at times, seem synonymous with productivity, this > can be really annoying. I'm a chroot now. What I really meant was that power point can, at times, seem synomymous with productivity. AFIK, productivity is always synonymous with productivity. As far as I can tell, endemic use of PowerPoint can be life-threatening... "It is easy to understand how a senior manager might read this PowerPoint slide and not realize that it addresses a life-threatening situation," the Columbia Accident Investigation Board concluded, citing Tufte's work. The board devoted a full page of its 2003 report to the issue, criticizing a space agency culture in which, it said, "the endemic use of PowerPoint" substituted for rigorous technical analysis. Of course, then, there's the Truly Great PowerPoint presentation... http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/ -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think Gödel's theorem is for sissies'.
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
edwardsa wrote: Thierry Chatelet wrote: Jan De Luyck wrote: On Friday 01 September 2006 14:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't some old news. http://openoffice.debian.net/ lists just that. I'll guess i'll have to try it! Jan Saving is working for me. Now, I did not try all posibilities, but basic functions are working.Now, most manufacturers are giving a push to Linux lately, and I can't think it's not related to $MS not giving what was promised for 64 bits. So... Thierry I can't import powerpoint files. For a government lab, where productivity can, at times, seem synonymous with productivity, this can be really annoying. I'm a chroot now. What I really meant was that power point can, at times, seem synomymous with productivity. AFIK, productivity is always synonymous with productivity. Art -- Arthur H. Edwards Senior Research Physicist Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL/VSSE Bldg. 914 3550 Aberdeen Ave. SE KAFB, NM 87117-5776 (505) 853-6042 (O) (505) 463-6722 (C) (505) 846-2290 (F) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Thierry Chatelet wrote: Jan De Luyck wrote: On Friday 01 September 2006 14:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't some old news. http://openoffice.debian.net/ lists just that. I'll guess i'll have to try it! Jan Saving is working for me. Now, I did not try all posibilities, but basic functions are working.Now, most manufacturers are giving a push to Linux lately, and I can't think it's not related to $MS not giving what was promised for 64 bits. So... Thierry I can't import powerpoint files. For a government lab, where productivity can, at times, seem synonymous with productivity, this can be really annoying. I'm a chroot now. -- Arthur H. Edwards Senior Research Physicist Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL/VSSE Bldg. 914 3550 Aberdeen Ave. SE KAFB, NM 87117-5776 (505) 853-6042 (O) (505) 463-6722 (C) (505) 846-2290 (F) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
I have switched to 64-bit because I do scientific calculations and the added address-space is crucial, and the added speed is, well, very nice. I also think that 64-bit linux is not really ready for prime-time. It's not just the absence of a 64-bit OO (flash is completely superfluous). I'm just finding that things like firefox and gnome seem to break more often in 64bit. I have set up a chroot that is working OK, but it isn't dazzling me. I'm spending much more time on system issues than I would prefer. I have a question about your claim of performance degradation. See below. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thinlk you must anwer yourself a question: What do you need more: 64bits or all the software that is not available for 64bit debian? I chose 64bits (need 'em for my scientific calculations) though am having the same problems with flash, ooo, etc, and have to wait patiently for 64bit versions of the software. There are other 64bit linux distros that are 32bit compatible, but, as someone mentioned here some time ago, this 32bit compatiblity makes them slower than pure 64bit debian). Is this degradation true for all applications? To be clear, are you saying that if I compile a fortran code using either pgi, or the 64-bit libraries of g77, that it will run more slowly on a 32-bit compatible distro than it will on a pure-64 bit Debian? If so, why? Użytkownik Andrew Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisał: Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I am having some issues with: Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) OpenOffice Cedega Wine Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I am having some issues with: Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) OpenOffice Cedega Wine Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. -Andrew -- Arthur H. Edwards Senior Research Physicist Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL/VSSE Bldg. 914 3550 Aberdeen Ave. SE KAFB, NM 87117-5776 (505) 853-6042 (O) (505) 463-6722 (C) (505) 846-2290 (F) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
> For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture > is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have 33% performance bonus with oggenc and mencoder (xvid and lavc encoding). It's enough for me to stick with 64 bit. Just my USD 0.02. Vit -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Well I made the rough decision last night and switched back to 32b. After reading some benchmarks it didn't look like 64b was going to benefit me much. This is a home desktop computer so the 32b will fit me fine. Just a shame to give up the extra functionality. Perhaps in a few years I may try 64b again when more libraries and software bundles are packaged as 64b. Until then I thought that it would be nice if things "just worked". I maintain a couple of slackware boxes, and it would be nice to finally have one box that is extremely low maintenance. Thanks to all for your opinions, Andrew On 9/1/06, Bernd Petrovitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 15:53 +0200, Jan De Luyck wrote: > On Friday 01 September 2006 15:30, Matthew Robinson wrote: > > Doesn't Koffice work in 64bit? What about abiword, gnumeric, etc? > > Koffice doesn't really do what I need, since it unfortunatly does include > reading MSWord files. The import filters of koffice usually crash instead of > doing anything. > > Abiword,gnumeric - no idea. gnumeric 64bit native works on FC4/5. So I suppose it works on Debian AMD64 too. Abiword, Koffice - no idea. Bernd -- Firmix Software GmbH http://www.firmix.at/ mobil: +43 664 4416156 fax: +43 1 7890849-55 Embedded Linux Development and Services -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 15:53 +0200, Jan De Luyck wrote: > On Friday 01 September 2006 15:30, Matthew Robinson wrote: > > Doesn't Koffice work in 64bit? What about abiword, gnumeric, etc? > > Koffice doesn't really do what I need, since it unfortunatly does include > reading MSWord files. The import filters of koffice usually crash instead of > doing anything. > > Abiword,gnumeric - no idea. gnumeric 64bit native works on FC4/5. So I suppose it works on Debian AMD64 too. Abiword, Koffice - no idea. Bernd -- Firmix Software GmbH http://www.firmix.at/ mobil: +43 664 4416156 fax: +43 1 7890849-55 Embedded Linux Development and Services -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:30:50PM +0100, Matthew Robinson wrote: > Doesn't Koffice work in 64bit? What about abiword, gnumeric, etc? > Does Koffice MS-WORD/EXCEL plugin work? -- Sythos - http://www.sythos.net () ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail /\- against M$ attachments -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Friday 01 September 2006 15:30, Matthew Robinson wrote: > Doesn't Koffice work in 64bit? What about abiword, gnumeric, etc? Koffice doesn't really do what I need, since it unfortunatly does include reading MSWord files. The import filters of koffice usually crash instead of doing anything. Abiword,gnumeric - no idea. Jan -- Mais escondido que bragueta de gordo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Albert Dengg wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:58:51PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: U?ytkownik Jan De Luyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisa?: Openoffice. I'm tempted to try out the 64-bit build for the latter... anyone here with experience on that? Is it any usable? Thanks, Jan What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't some old news. Doesn't Koffice work in 64bit? What about abiword, gnumeric, etc? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Jan De Luyck wrote: On Friday 01 September 2006 14:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't some old news. http://openoffice.debian.net/ lists just that. I'll guess i'll have to try it! Jan Saving is working for me. Now, I did not try all posibilities, but basic functions are working.Now, most manufacturers are giving a push to Linux lately, and I can't think it's not related to $MS not giving what was promised for 64 bits. So... Thierry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:58:51PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > U?ytkownik Jan De Luyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisa?: > >Openoffice. I'm tempted to try out the 64-bit build for the latter... anyone > >here with experience on that? Is it any usable? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Jan > > What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... > But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't > some old news. > i have read (it was on this list i think) that it is _sometimes_ a problem but not always... so it might be usable...though maintaining the chroot is not much of a problem for me and therefore i havent investeted time to this matter yet and just kept it the way it is for now. yours Albert - -- Albert Dengg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE+DEWhrtSwvbWj0kRAss+AJwMu5d2G1xKL974GNF9Z/wzJ8EHYQCcCxL5 Wuff/eBEkGd+6fBwe+yIcn0= =SaFL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Friday 01 September 2006 14:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet > supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure > if it wasn't some old news. http://openoffice.debian.net/ lists just that. I'll guess i'll have to try it! Jan -- Q: What does a WASP Mom make for dinner? A: A crisp salad, a hearty soup, a lovely entree, followed by a delicious dessert. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Użytkownik Jan De Luyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisał: >Openoffice. I'm tempted to try out the 64-bit build for the latter... anyone >here with experience on that? Is it any usable? > >Thanks, > >Jan What I have read recently - it is not:( Saving files is not yet supported... But I read it on some website found by google and am not sure if it wasn't some old news. Tomek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:50:32AM +0200, Lubos Vrbka wrote: > maybe you could also run 64bit kernel with 32bit userspace... not doing > that personally, i am happy with amd64 port, but it might be worth > trying, there are some reports of this on d-u... That works very well. We have a couple of AMD64 boxes running that way: only 64 bit kernel, but a 32 bit i386 userland. Erik -- +-- Erik Mouw -- www.harddisk-recovery.com -- +31 70 370 12 90 -- | Lab address: Delftechpark 26, 2628 XH, Delft, The Netherlands -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Thursday 31 August 2006 21:11, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences As a fairly new AMD64 user, I have to say that maintaining a 32-bit chroot is relatively painless. I've gotten used to using 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade; schroot -p "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade", and it does all it should do: update and upgrade my both installations. As such, I'd be very inclined to keep the 64bit and use the chroot for the 32-bit apps needed. Ofcourse, I have way lesser dependencies on it than you do, so YMMV. The only things I really need the chroot for right now is Opera (+flash) and Openoffice. I'm tempted to try out the 64-bit build for the latter... anyone here with experience on that? Is it any usable? Thanks, Jan -- It is better to have loved and lost than just to have lost. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. maybe you could also run 64bit kernel with 32bit userspace... not doing that personally, i am happy with amd64 port, but it might be worth trying, there are some reports of this on d-u... regards, -- Lubos [EMAIL PROTECTED]" http://www.lubos.vrbka.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Jack Malmostoso wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:20:09 +0200, Andrew Robinson wrote: Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. The answer is really easy: if you feel it's a pain then switch back to the 32bit. I agree completely. It just boils down to: if you do not see advantages (for your use) in 64bit and feel more comfortable in 32bit, go ahead and switch to it. I am in the same boat as Francesco (heavy number crunching) and I can tell you that in my work the difference is huge and more than justifies the extra work of maintaining the 32bit chroot jail in parallel. I actually prefer sacrificing some disk space and keeping the 64bit and 32bit installations in sync and as closely mirrored as possible, because this makes things simpler to maintain, at the expense of some extra work to set it up at first. Bye Giacomo -- _ Giacomo Mulas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _ OSSERVATORIO ASTRONOMICO DI CAGLIARI Str. 54, Loc. Poggio dei Pini * 09012 Capoterra (CA) Tel. (OAC): +39 070 71180 248 Fax : +39 070 71180 222 Tel. (UNICA): +39 070 675 4916 _ "When the storms are raging around you, stay right where you are" (Freddy Mercury) _ -- Il messaggio e' stato analizzato alla ricerca di virus o contenuti pericolosi da MailScanner, ed e' risultato non infetto. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:11:08PM -0600, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences > with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, > and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I > am having some issues with: > > Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) I use the 64 bit java from sun and downloaded eclipse 3.2 form the web site and it work fine. Not sure about the ExadelStudi stuff, but as long as its all java then should work fine > Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) live with out flash > OpenOffice run it in dchroot - work fine. 1 command to install the chroot, then occassional go into the chroot aptitude and update stuff. I access openoffice from the 64bit command line and from xfce4 > Cedega na > Wine na > > Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily > (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new > functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? > > As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it > seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the > apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more > of a pain. > > For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture > is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, > I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of > the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source > wasn't 100% reliable). > > Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. > > -Andrew > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Andrew Robinson wrote: Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I am having some issues with: Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) OpenOffice Cedega Wine Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? I run 64-bit, but with less 32-bit software. I have a chroot so I can run my digital camera raw converter in wine. The chroot painless to maintain - it is actually the remains of my old 32-bit installation from before I got the opteron. So I run apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade in there occationally. I have deleted lots of packages that are not needed anymore there. I dont't have cedega or eclipse. I don't need flash - there are some fun flash games in the net, but I can do without those. Debian have plenty of little games anyway. I have no need for openoffice. Gnumeric starts much faster for spreadsheets, lyx is superior for writing anyway, is faster, and can also be used for presentations. Well, perhaps it isn't the best tool for presentations, but I don't do many of those anyway. As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. Maintaining a chroot should be no harder than maintaining an extra pc? Sure, you have to run the apt-get commands twice, once in 64-bit, once in 32-bit. This just works, assuming you have a separate /var for the 32-bity software. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). 64-bit is nice and fast for cpu-intensive stuff. Waiting for the disk while loading openoffice won't be faster with 64-bits though. Compiling is very fast - my 1.8 GHz opteron is so much faster than the 2.4GHz pentium-m at work that it is very noticeable. The same goes for typesetting long documents with latex, which is what lyx does whenever I print. Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. Well, you may want to go 32-bit if that is much less pain. But then you'll have to reinstall? A correctly setup chroot is no more work to maintain than an extra pc. Actually less, as the chroot only will have a handful of programs and their support libraries installed. If your chroot is much more cumbersome, please describe what you have to do, and I'll see if something can be done to make it easier. Helge Hafting -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
if the majority of your applications are running 32bit chroot anyway, then most likely 32bit would be the way to go i have been running 64bit workstation for over a year now and the only application i use 'heavily' in 32bit is cedega (and occasionally but not often wine). dont be ashamed to use the most reasonable solution to your various needs and problems. computers are supposed to tailor to suit our needs not the other way around - hence linux, and its Free/free friends. Dean On Fri, September 1, 2006 5:11 am, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences > with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, > and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I > am having some issues with: > > Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) > Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) > OpenOffice > Cedega > Wine > > Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily > (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new > functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? > > As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it > seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the > apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more > of a pain. > > For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture > is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, > I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of > the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source > wasn't 100% reliable). > > Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. > > -Andrew > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) There are open alternatives that work 64 bit native (let's be honest, flash 7 is broken anyway what is the big deal if certain sites crash the player or won't play at all?) OpenOffice Understandable here, everyone needs an office suite but there is a 64 bit native version that may have a few bugs to work through, consider that version. Cedega Is a worthless pile of trash that has not changed enough in the past 1 1/2 years of my subscription to justify $5 a month, use WineHQ. It is free and works just as well if not better, so what if you have to download a fixed .exe to get around the copy protect? Do not buy into the false advertising that The Elder Scrolls 4 will run when it requires a third party patch to even start, not to mention a host of other issues that Transgaming has brought to the table. Wine see above. That leaves you with two reasons to have a 32bit chroot, hardly a headache but it is after all your choice. Myself I have been using a 32bit chroot mainly for the video codices and wine since before the release of Sarge and have not had a single problem that wasn't my fault not to mention having the best of both worlds, which is what the AMD64 architecture was designed to provide. On 8/31/06, Jack Malmostoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:20:09 +0200, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. The answer is really easy: if you feel it's a pain then switch back to the 32bit. I am perfectly happy with my 64bit setup, but the only thing I need 32bit are OO.o and Opera, which is more than bearable. Not sure about the performance increase anyway, so maybe you are really better off with the 32bit Debian. Obviously IMHO :) -- Best Regards, Jack Linux user #264449 Powered by Debian PPC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:20:09 +0200, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. The answer is really easy: if you feel it's a pain then switch back to the 32bit. I am perfectly happy with my 64bit setup, but the only thing I need 32bit are OO.o and Opera, which is more than bearable. Not sure about the performance increase anyway, so maybe you are really better off with the 32bit Debian. Obviously IMHO :) -- Best Regards, Jack Linux user #264449 Powered by Debian PPC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
I thinlk you must anwer yourself a question: What do you need more: 64bits or all the software that is not available for 64bit debian? I chose 64bits (need 'em for my scientific calculations) though am having the same problems with flash, ooo, etc, and have to wait patiently for 64bit versions of the software. There are other 64bit linux distros that are 32bit compatible, but, as someone mentioned here some time ago, this 32bit compatiblity makes them slower than pure 64bit debian). Użytkownik Andrew Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisał: >Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences >with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, >and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I >am having some issues with: > >Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) >Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) >OpenOffice >Cedega >Wine > >Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily >(especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new >functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? > >As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it >seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the >apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more >of a pain. > >For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture >is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, >I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of >the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source >wasn't 100% reliable). > >Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. > >-Andrew > > >-- >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I am having some issues with: Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) OpenOffice Cedega Wine Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Hi Andrew: My workstation (not server) is operated by amd64 and I could not achieve the same at the half floating point of 32bit. I see two reasons to move to 64 bit: crunking numbers (as in my case) or games (or other particularly demanding animated graphics). Otherwise, why moving to the more energy-demanding 64bit when all you mention you are aimed at running, runs perfectly at the more modest hardware of 32bit? Cheers francesco On Thursday 31 August 2006 21:11, Andrew Robinson wrote: > Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences > with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, > and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I > am having some issues with: > > Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) > Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) > OpenOffice > Cedega > Wine > > Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily > (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new > functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? > > As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it > seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the > apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more > of a pain. > > For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture > is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, > I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of > the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source > wasn't 100% reliable). > > Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. > > -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[POLL] To continue 64 or not?
Looking for some constructive feedback on other people's experiences with amd64 as a workstation. I have been only using it a few weeks, and the setup is a pain due to the amount of 32 bit only programs. I am having some issues with: Eclipse + ExadelStudio plugin (plugin is 32-bit only) Firefox + Flash (Flash is 32-bit only) OpenOffice Cedega Wine Unfortunately, this makes up a decent percentage of what I run daily (especially eclipse). I am the type to sacrifice pain for new functionality, but this one has got me thinking, is it worth it? As a server I would think it would be great but as a workstation it seems to be a pain. The chroot jail works, but having to maintain the apt libraries (I am using etch, so they change fairly often), it more of a pain. For those that have the knowledge, I know that the 64 bit architecture is faster due to addressing and such, but is it that noticeable? Also, I have read that the 32 kernel still supports the dualcore nature of the amd64 even though running in 32 bit mode (is this true, my source wasn't 100% reliable). Just looking for some constructive feedback on other's opinions. -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
