Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 22:21 schrieb Hamish Moffatt: [...] ATSC (the US digital standard for over-the-air terrestrial) is only used in North America and Japan. The US is using DVB-C and DVB-S though (cable and satellite). Very interesting, thanks alot! I was always wondering why DVD-C and DVD-S need different hardware though they operate on the same media basically. Analogue TV can be received with the same receiver, be it terrestrial or cable-based. For digital you'll need two different cards though. Are the frequencies used the big difference or is ther more? Very off-topic of course, just curious :) Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 02:03:46PM +0100, Soenke von Stamm wrote: Am Dienstag, 21. M?rz 2006 22:21 schrieb Hamish Moffatt: [...] ATSC (the US digital standard for over-the-air terrestrial) is only used in North America and Japan. The US is using DVB-C and DVB-S though (cable and satellite). Very interesting, thanks alot! I was always wondering why DVD-C and DVD-S need different hardware though they operate on the same media basically. Analogue TV can be received with the same receiver, be it terrestrial or cable-based. For digital you'll need two different cards though. Are the frequencies used the big difference or is ther more? Well at least in north america, the signals sent over the air match with cable signals for channels 2 to 13. Past that the frequency spacing changes and the channels on cable and off the air have different frequencies. On digital cable, it is entirely different of course. So yes analog signals have some sharing between cable and off the air, but not much. The encoding is of course the same for both. I believe DVB probably uses very different frequencies on cable and satelite. Satelite after all uses frequencies that can go long distances through the atmosphere, while cable wants a frequency that works well through their cable network. They may share the encoding system, but if the frequencies are very different, you will need different hardware to receive them. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Supermicro AS1010P-T(R) should fit your bill: http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-TR.cfm http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-T.cfm * 1U chassis yep. * 1 dual-core amd64 yep. * 4 SATA drives yep. * 1 32-bit PCI slot (preferably 2) you can choose either a PCIe-riser or a PCI-X one which is downward compatible to 32bit PCI. There's even a second slot of the same type, but it's half-height only. None of the supermicro systems accomodates us. Erm, why not? You may have to test if the PCI-X slot is really compatible to the PCI card you're going to use, if you're going to order a dozen I'm sure someone will give you a test system before purchase. Can someone suggest a system like this that is known to run Debian amd64? I guess, you'll need quite a new kernel for the ServerWorks chipset, but I tend to trust that one more than an nVidia solution I must say - from what I hear (from my sales rep at a systems builder) and read Tyan and Supermicro seem to lean towards SW too. Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 10:31:38AM +0100, Soenke von Stamm wrote: Supermicro AS1010P-T(R) should fit your bill: http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-TR.cfm http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-T.cfm Looks as if both take registered memory only. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Soenke von Stamm wrote: You may have to test if the PCI-X slot is really compatible to the PCI card you're going to use, if you're going to order a dozen I'm sure someone will give you a test system before purchase. Ay, there's the rub -- it's not. The Tyan Tomcat K8E fits the bill, however -- though it has the nforce4 chipset. My one remaining question is actually whether I need sound on the motherboard to record sound via the PCI bus from the grabber card -- does anyone know? (I'm asking on the v4l list). The S2865G2NR has no audio, while S2865ANRF does; I'm assuming I need it to record sound, even if the sound is taken straight off the grabber card through the PCI bus? Best, Dave I guess, you'll need quite a new kernel for the ServerWorks chipset, but I tend to trust that one more than an nVidia solution I must say - from what I hear (from my sales rep at a systems builder) and read Tyan and Supermicro seem to lean towards SW too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 10:42 schrieb Eugen Leitl: http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-TR.cfm http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/1U/1010/AS-1010P-T.cfm Looks as if both take registered memory only. Interesting. To me that would be another reason to buy it :) Though I guess somebody has confused the usual Opteron specs with those for S939 here. Errr No, you're right, it supports S940 only, the board is a two-socket one, with the 2nd socket removed! So 2xx Opterons are needed here. Strange... That adds like $200 for the CPU (36% more) for the x75, still in range if you ask me. Take into account the rest of the system and it'll be like 10% extra cost - ok, added cost for reg memory too, but you can throw upto 16 GByte (at insane price levels) in, 8 GBytes affordable if needed. Vs. 4 GBytes max for S939 of course. But it's the only system that potentially meets David's needs et seems. Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 11:38 schrieb David Liontooth: Ay, there's the rub -- it's not. The Tyan Tomcat K8E fits the bill, however -- though it has the nforce4 chipset. My one remaining question is actually whether I need sound on the motherboard to record sound via the PCI bus from the grabber card -- does anyone know? (I'm asking on the v4l list). The S2865G2NR has no audio, while S2865ANRF does; I'm assuming I need it to record sound, even if the sound is taken straight off the grabber card through the PCI bus? Depends on the quality needed too, I guess. Onboard sound devices tend to have low-quality a-d converters and worse electromagnetic shielding, at least worse than decent hand-picked sound cards. What is it you're going to do with these machines? Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 11:42:11AM +0100, Soenke von Stamm wrote: Looks as if both take registered memory only. Interesting. To me that would be another reason to buy it :) If you need more than 4 GBytes/CPU, yes. If you can live with just 4, that's a considerable premium for a slower memory over vanilla unbuffered ECCs. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Soenke von Stamm wrote: Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 11:38 schrieb David Liontooth: My one remaining question is actually whether I need sound on the motherboard to record sound via the PCI bus from the grabber card -- does anyone know? (I'm asking on the v4l list). The S2865G2NR has no audio, while S2865ANRF does; I'm assuming I need it to record sound, even if the sound is taken straight off the grabber card through the PCI bus? Depends on the quality needed too, I guess. Onboard sound devices tend to have low-quality a-d converters and worse electromagnetic shielding, at least worse than decent hand-picked sound cards. What is it you're going to do with these machines? They'll be used to record audio/video and closed captioning from broadcast tv. On second thoughts, I don't think I need an audio device on the board at all -- all I want is to record the signal to disk, and surely the audio is relevant only if I want to convert the signal to something I can hear -- and I don't. The saa7134 driver does a great job getting sound directly off the PCI bus. I'm also planning (should I say hoping) to compress straight to h264/mp3, using a dual-core opteron or athlon64x2. Has anyone tried this from live tv? I haven't had a chance to test this yet with a dual-core; my single-core athlon64-3000 or dual opteron 240 can't keep up. This is of course using the excellent new x264 encoder codec. Dave -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 12:23 schrieb David Liontooth: They'll be used to record audio/video and closed captioning from broadcast tv. On second thoughts, I don't think I need an audio device on the board at all -- all I want is to record the signal to disk, and surely the audio is relevant only if I want to convert the signal to something I can hear -- and I don't. Is it so ugly? ;) The saa7134 driver does a great job getting sound directly off the PCI bus. So I guess you're talking about analog TV ... no DVB where you live? Must say I don't even know if DVB is a european-only standard or not. I'm also planning (should I say hoping) to compress straight to h264/mp3, using a dual-core opteron or athlon64x2. Has anyone tried this from live tv? I haven't had a chance to test this yet with a dual-core; my single-core athlon64-3000 or dual opteron 240 can't keep up. This is of course using the excellent new x264 encoder codec. Is it excellent already? Last I tried it wasn't :) No, sorry I don't know. I have DVB-S now and am very happy with it. I transcode afterwards if I decide to keep a recording. Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 10:42:12AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: Looks as if both take registered memory only. Of course. That is the only kind of memory the Opteron memory controller allows. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Am Dienstag, 21. März 2006 15:11 schrieb Lennart Sorensen: Of course. That is the only kind of memory the Opteron memory controller allows. Only true for S940, not true for S939 (today's Opteron 1xx, S940 1xx are not being sold via normal channels anymore). S939 Opterons, like A64s, don't even run with registered modules. Sönke
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 06:04:39PM -0800, David Liontooth wrote: Often true, but TV cards still need 5V PCI. They are that old? What is wrong with the makers of those cards? The PCI standards haven't allowed for 5V only cards for years. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 09:11:49AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 10:42:12AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: Looks as if both take registered memory only. Of course. That is the only kind of memory the Opteron memory controller allows. No, e.g. Sun Fire X2100 (Opteron 146) takes unregistered DIMMs, and in fact both ECC and vanilla, just not mixed. When Opterons for DDR2 2 GByte-DIMMs land, there will be even less need for buffered memories. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 03:55:05PM +0100, Soenke von Stamm wrote: Only true for S940, not true for S939 (today's Opteron 1xx, S940 1xx are not being sold via normal channels anymore). S939 Opterons, like A64s, don't even run with registered modules. I didn't know the opteron 1xx came as S939 now. I thought they were all S940 like they used to be. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:25:03PM -0800, David Liontooth wrote: One expansion slot is OK, but I need it to be 32-bit standard PCI. The problem is that the boards now have switched to PCI-Express to complement PCI-X, and there are no framegrabber cards for these slots yet. The first PCI-Express grabber cards are on the way, but they have no Linux support. I thought PCI-X slots were backwards compatible with PCI cards. I have a Tyan machine and am very happy with it, but it doesn't look like they have a 1U with 32-bit PCI. Obviously not a common combination. Well everything I can find says any 3.3V compatible PCI card can be used in a PCI-X slot. So I can see why no one would build a server with anything else. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tuesday 21 March 2006 03:10, David Liontooth wrote: Paul Brook wrote: On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:04, David Liontooth wrote: Paul Brook wrote: Most modern PCI cards support 3.3v operation, so will work fine in PCI-X slots. PCI-X is backwards compatible with 32-bit 33MHz PCI. Often true, but TV cards still need 5V PCI. I have a DVB-t card that works fine in a PCI-X slot, and it looks like the more recent (2388x based) Hauppage cards should also work. What about v4l cards? The old-fashioned analog signal? Exactly what I said above: http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/products/data_pcifm.html You can tell it's a 3.3v card because it's got an two notches in the PCI connector. Paul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
I'm having a hard time finding server hardware for a university project -- we need a dozen of these, running Debian sid: * 1U chassis * 1 dual-core amd64 * 4 SATA drives * 1 32-bit PCI slot (preferably 2) None of the supermicro systems accomodates us. Can someone suggest a system like this that is known to run Debian amd64? David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:16:29PM -0800, David Liontooth wrote: I'm having a hard time finding server hardware for a university project -- we need a dozen of these, running Debian sid: * 1U chassis * 1 dual-core amd64 * 4 SATA drives * 1 32-bit PCI slot (preferably 2) None of the supermicro systems accomodates us. Can someone suggest a system like this that is known to run Debian amd64? I suspect one of the Tyan boards would fit the bill. I don't personally use Tyan (I use Asus) and I don't use rackmount (so hence no problem there). I know the nforce chipsets in general have fairly decent support in Linux. I believe the AMD chipsets do too. No idea how the ServerWorks for opteron are doing Linux wise. As for PCI, well usually you can get a 90degree adapter to put at least one pci slot in a rackmount. More than that often means custom board for a specific case design is required. Maybe this problem has been solved now, but I certainly haven't seen it done yet, other than custom systems (like IBM, etc). 1U is just a pain for expansion cards. Maybe this is what you are wanting: http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt20b3870.html (1 PCI-X slot) http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt24b2891.html (1 PCI-X and 1 PCIe slots). They have lots more, but most have just one expansion slot. 4 SATA drives seem standard, and they can even be hotswap it seems. I don't think linux supports hotswap in libata yet, but it is being worked on. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Hi Len, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:16:29PM -0800, David Liontooth wrote: I'm having a hard time finding server hardware for a university project -- we need a dozen of these, running Debian sid: * 1U chassis * 1 dual-core amd64 * 4 SATA drives * 1 32-bit PCI slot (preferably 2) None of the supermicro systems accomodates us. Can someone suggest a system like this that is known to run Debian amd64? I suspect one of the Tyan boards would fit the bill. I don't personally use Tyan (I use Asus) and I don't use rackmount (so hence no problem there). I know the nforce chipsets in general have fairly decent support in Linux. I believe the AMD chipsets do too. No idea how the ServerWorks for opteron are doing Linux wise. As for PCI, well usually you can get a 90degree adapter to put at least one pci slot in a rackmount. More than that often means custom board for a specific case design is required. Maybe this problem has been solved now, but I certainly haven't seen it done yet, other than custom systems (like IBM, etc). 1U is just a pain for expansion cards. Maybe this is what you are wanting: http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt20b3870.html (1 PCI-X slot) http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt24b2891.html (1 PCI-X and 1 PCIe slots). One expansion slot is OK, but I need it to be 32-bit standard PCI. The problem is that the boards now have switched to PCI-Express to complement PCI-X, and there are no framegrabber cards for these slots yet. The first PCI-Express grabber cards are on the way, but they have no Linux support. I have a Tyan machine and am very happy with it, but it doesn't look like they have a 1U with 32-bit PCI. Obviously not a common combination. Dave They have lots more, but most have just one expansion slot. 4 SATA drives seem standard, and they can even be hotswap it seems. I don't think linux supports hotswap in libata yet, but it is being worked on. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
David Liontooth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm having a hard time finding server hardware for a university project -- we need a dozen of these, running Debian sid: * 1U chassis * 1 dual-core amd64 * 4 SATA drives * 1 32-bit PCI slot (preferably 2) None of the supermicro systems accomodates us. Can someone suggest a system like this that is known to run Debian amd64? tyan.com has barebones systems that should do what you want. http://tyan.com/products/html/barebone_amd.html My company just bought one of their higher-end ones (dual CPU, dual-core capable, etc), and the person doing the assembly has been very impressed with the fit and finish. When the rest of the parts arrive, we'll be able to tell you how they perform. Mike -- It still insists that we beg for our purity -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Maybe this is what you are wanting: http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt20b3870.html (1 PCI-X slot) http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gt24b2891.html (1 PCI-X and 1 PCIe slots). One expansion slot is OK, but I need it to be 32-bit standard PCI. The problem is that the boards now have switched to PCI-Express to complement PCI-X, and there are no framegrabber cards for these slots yet. The first PCI-Express grabber cards are on the way, but they have no Linux support. Most modern PCI cards support 3.3v operation, so will work fine in PCI-X slots. PCI-X is backwards compatible with 32-bit 33MHz PCI. Paul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Paul Brook wrote: Most modern PCI cards support 3.3v operation, so will work fine in PCI-X slots. PCI-X is backwards compatible with 32-bit 33MHz PCI. Often true, but TV cards still need 5V PCI. Dave -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Michael Alan Dorman wrote: tyan.com has barebones systems that should do what you want. http://tyan.com/products/html/barebone_amd.html Thanks! Indeed, it's there -- the Transport GT20 (B2865) comes with the option of a PCI slot and is just the ticket! I had looked around the Tyan site and missed it. My company just bought one of their higher-end ones (dual CPU, dual-core capable, etc), and the person doing the assembly has been very impressed with the fit and finish. When the rest of the parts arrive, we'll be able to tell you how they perform. That would be great -- the hardware looks like it should all be supported. Best, Dave -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
Paul Brook wrote: On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:04, David Liontooth wrote: Paul Brook wrote: Most modern PCI cards support 3.3v operation, so will work fine in PCI-X slots. PCI-X is backwards compatible with 32-bit 33MHz PCI. Often true, but TV cards still need 5V PCI. I have a DVB-t card that works fine in a PCI-X slot, and it looks like the more recent (2388x based) Hauppage cards should also work. What about v4l cards? The old-fashioned analog signal? Dave Paul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 1U server with 4 SATA ports and a 32-bit PCI slot
On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:04, David Liontooth wrote: Paul Brook wrote: Most modern PCI cards support 3.3v operation, so will work fine in PCI-X slots. PCI-X is backwards compatible with 32-bit 33MHz PCI. Often true, but TV cards still need 5V PCI. I have a DVB-t card that works fine in a PCI-X slot, and it looks like the more recent (2388x based) Hauppage cards should also work. Paul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
