Heat problem with amd64 laptop
Hi I've been running sid amd64 (xfce4.2) since January and it's been working very well. However, from time to time I've suffered an abrupt shutdown, it would seem, due to overheating. 1. Some months ago I tried ripping some mp3 tracks from a CD using grip and it managed 5 tracks before just cutting out. I decided to uninstall grip and not use it. 2. About 2 months ago I downloaded the windowsXP 64 bit beta and when trying to install it, again an abrupt shutdown. I sent the laptop back to Acer who replaced the DVD drive which was faulty and apparently repasted the heatsink. I've had it back a couple of weeks and my 4 debian type systems were intact (incl. Kubuntu and Ubuntu) but I had to reinstall windowsXP (32 bit). I then tried the XP 64 bit beta again which resulted in the abrupt shutdown. I abandoned that and threw the disk away; it was only curiosity which prompted me to try. I only use windows to support clients - no big deal. 3. For reasons along the lines of 'if ain't broke why not try to fix it' I was reconfiguring one of our servers via ssh and with multiple windows open managed to delete the dchp3.conf file on the laptop in error. No drama, boot into the other debian system and copy it from there; all fine except that I was checking my mail on the other system (IMAP) and again an abrupt shutdown. The system is sid (kde) as well. I spoke to Acer support who referred me to the small print re: official acer software blah di blah. They have offered to take it back but having been running both windows (with no shutdown to date) and debian (occasional shutdowns often related to networking), I am sceptical as to whether this will improve the situation long term. The problem now seems to be getting worse (more frequent). I've just tried the Ubuntu install and whilst exploring how it handles samba networking it shutdown X with an error along the lines of temp exceeding 44 degrees shutting down. There is no doubt that I use the debian system much harder than windows (multiple desktops and greater functionality) but it's mainly text files, email, browsing and ssh and samba across the network. I note that all Acer 64bit notebooks now ship with the Turion processor which is designed for laptops which would suggest that there is an inherent flaw in putting the athlon chip in laptops. I am prepared to try to claim Acer have sold me a laptop which is 'not fit for purpose' but they will claim that I'm not running their official software; however, it is worth a letter at least. My purpose in writing to the list is to explore: 1. whether anyone else has suffered similar problems? 2. is there a way, in software, to slow down the processor to make it run cooler? It's an Acer Aspire 1524 WLMi AMD Athlon 64 processor 3400+ I've attached the output of lshw and: $ uname -a Linux Darius 2.6.12-1-amd64-generic #1 Fri Sep 23 11:57:13 CEST 2005 x86_64 GNU/Linux Thanks Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On Sunday 25 September 2005 10:47, Clive Menzies wrote: > I note that all Acer 64bit notebooks now ship with the Turion processor > which is designed for laptops which would suggest that there is an > inherent flaw in putting the athlon chip in laptops. This is simply not true- there are quite a few people (myself included) running 64bit linux flavors on the Compaq Presario R3000 (mobile athlon64) series alone. I've never experienced overheating problems- and I frequently do long compiles and image/video processing where the processor and fans are peaked. > I am prepared to > try to claim Acer have sold me a laptop which is 'not fit for purpose' > but they will claim that I'm not running their official software; > however, it is worth a letter at least. Sounds like either the laptop is a lemon, or there are problems with that particular make/model. I'll let others with similar hardware chime in... > 2. is there a way, in software, to slow down the processor to make it > run cooler? You could use the cpu frequency modes in the kernel to force the processor to always run slow- kind of defeats the purpose of a fast 64-bit processor though ;-) cheers, -Ted -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On (25/09/05 11:15), Theodore Kisner wrote: > On Sunday 25 September 2005 10:47, Clive Menzies wrote: > > I note that all Acer 64bit notebooks now ship with the Turion processor > > which is designed for laptops which would suggest that there is an > > inherent flaw in putting the athlon chip in laptops. > > This is simply not true- there are quite a few people (myself included) > running 64bit linux flavors on the Compaq Presario R3000 (mobile athlon64) > series alone. I've never experienced overheating problems- and I frequently > do long compiles and image/video processing where the processor and fans are > peaked. > Well, I'm relieved to hear it :) I'd be really p*ssed if I'd bought a machine that was flawed by design. > > I am prepared to > > try to claim Acer have sold me a laptop which is 'not fit for purpose' > > but they will claim that I'm not running their official software; > > however, it is worth a letter at least. > > Sounds like either the laptop is a lemon, or there are problems with that > particular make/model. I'll let others with similar hardware chime in... > I'd like to think that the laptop is a lemon; it should either be repaired or replaced. What bothers me is the fact that it hasn't shutdown under windows, although I can't really say I 'work' in windows and consequently it isn't under much load. I did try ripping CD's (which seemed to be the cause of the first occurance) without a problem. If it is a generic fault with this model that doesn't appear in windows, it's unlikely to be resolved :( > > 2. is there a way, in software, to slow down the processor to make it > > run cooler? > > You could use the cpu frequency modes in the kernel to force the processor to > always run slow- kind of defeats the purpose of a fast 64-bit processor > though ;-) Yes, this would be a 'last resort' solution; thanks for the pointer, I shall go explore. Meanwhile, I'll look for a way to monitor the cpu temp. Thanks for the feedback ;) Regards Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
Hi, > > > I note that all Acer 64bit notebooks now ship with the Turion processor > > > which is designed for laptops which would suggest that there is an > > > inherent flaw in putting the athlon chip in laptops. two months ago I have posted on this ml same problems (look out at "cpu burns" posts). I have an acer 1524wlmi, and it was under garantee until 10 days ago... my motherboard was burned and they have substituted it. Now it seems work, however I had your same suspect about Turion cpus and Acer cos I don't see more my machine on depliant or shops (in italy at least)... I sent my notebook 2 times... first time they reply to me that with their program to test cpu, notebook worked fine and my test under linux was not good for them... second time I have installed fortran with cygwin under windows and I show them that a simple program for math calculate make shutdown cpu in 5 minutes... and so they have repaired it... GOOD LUCK Giulio -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On (26/09/05 00:43), antongiulio05 wrote: > two months ago I have posted on this ml same problems (look out at "cpu > burns" posts). I have an acer 1524wlmi, and it was under garantee until 10 > days ago... my motherboard was burned and they have substituted it. Now it > seems work, however I had your same suspect about Turion cpus and Acer cos I > don't see more my machine on depliant or shops (in italy at least)... > I sent my notebook 2 times... first time they reply to me that with their > program to test cpu, notebook worked fine and my test under linux was not > good for them... second time I have installed fortran with cygwin under > windows and I show them that a simple program for math calculate make > shutdown cpu in 5 minutes... and so they have repaired it... Thanks Giulio It's good to hear I'm not alone in suffering this problem and I'm glad you got it sorted :) Very interesting, reading your thread; I must have missed it first time around. Both times I tried to install the 64bit WindowsXP beta, it overheated. I'll send it back insisting they test it with 64bit software. Will you mind if I refer to your experience? It may speed things up if they liaise with their Italian colleagues. Thanks again Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
Even though i can't really comment on the topic, i just wanted to state that it is in general not a good idea to buy an Acer Laptop if you're using linux on it. Acer has a very rough buy or die strategy, which does ONLY accept M$ semi-OS' as OS'. I had recently also some problems with my Travelmate, which i bought before i switched to linux and a call at Acer ended with "without Windows we can't give you any further support". Sad that in the end it was a hardware problem. I just can recommend anybody not to buy Acer until they are willing to change their straight ahead strategy. Just my 5 cents. Greetings Igor who doesn't use ANY f*cking M$ product at all and sleeps better now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On (01/01/02 09:53), Igor Puschner wrote: > Even though i can't really comment on the topic, i just wanted to state that > it is in general not a good idea to buy an Acer Laptop if you're using linux > on it. > > Acer has a very rough buy or die strategy, which does ONLY accept M$ semi-OS' > as OS'. > I had recently also some problems with my Travelmate, which i bought before i > switched to linux and a call at Acer ended with "without Windows we can't > give you any further support". Sad that in the end it was a hardware problem. > > I just can recommend anybody not to buy Acer until they are willing to change > their straight ahead strategy. Well apart from this issue, we've been quite pleased with the two we've bought (the other's a centrino). The components seem reasonably well supported in linux; I agree it's a pain if they hide behind a windows only policy. That said, I suspect that it's the same with any manufacturer that sells mainly windows OS systems. At the risk of starting a flamewar (not my intention) what would you recommend? Regards Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
> At the risk of starting a flamewar (not my intention) what would you > recommend? Don't get me wrong, I don't say Acer products are worse, but it's just the fact that if you use anything different from M$ products, you will get problems with support (as in my case, or as already told in this thread before). And as long as their products are accepted they won't change. (It's like that with many products, where they say: we will port it to linux as soon as linux gets more popular, but sometimes it's just these programs that are needed to make linux more popular e.g. SAP, homebanking programs, etc.) But just for completing: Personally i have some pretty good experiences with Toshiba Laptops, but only older ones so i cant tell about the newer ones (got here a Portege 3110). Well, and then there is Sony and the Vaio line. My former teacher used one and said he had no real problems with getting Linux up and running on it (i can't either confirm nor deny this, is there anyone with experiences who can help?) And well then there is apart from anything the Apple line. No comparisson to the others, but i just wanted to state that these are just COOL. Regards Igor -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
Hi Clive, > I'll send it back insisting they test it with 64bit software. Will you > mind if I refer to your experience? It may speed things up if they > liaise with their Italian colleagues. No, If you don't wanna lose your time, install 32-windows that they sell to you! They just accept test on it (for them, it's not important that your hardware is 64bit and your OS is 32bit, and don't forgive techinicians are windows users). However if you have overhating problem in 64bit-mode, you'll have on 32bit too... Last thing, don't test your cpu with various "cpu test programs", they are unuseful. The best way to test that kind of problem is running 'a loop of mathematical operations', because CPU go understress in few seconds. Eventually, put that kind of program on 32bit windows with a link-icon... they yeld to the evidence. Giulio -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On 9/25/05, Clive Menzies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I spoke to Acer support who referred me to the small print re: officialacer software blah di blah. I assume you bought the notebook in the UK. In this case european consumer law is applicable, and you can conveniently ignore all the smallprint. If they advertise a 64bit CPU, you can rightfully expect to run 64bit applications. They may not support the OS, but you are not asking them to support the OS, so that should be fine. You can also try to get thermal zones to work. With ACPI that may be supported on Linux 2.6. In effect, the clock frequency is reduced when the temperature gets too high, and this prevents overheating. Personally though, I would not put up with a lemon, and I would get them fix the issue. I've justtried the Ubuntu install and whilst exploring how it handles samba networking it shutdown X with an error along the lines of temp exceeding44 degrees shutting down. 44 degrees is not that much, after all the notebook should probably work with an environment temperature up to about 35 degrees. So maybe Ubuntu is being to conservative here? Maybe thermal zones are already set up, but the shut down temperature is very low? Unfortunately, I could never get thermal zones to work, so I can't really help you with that :-) Thomas
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
On (26/09/05 17:31), Thomas Steffen wrote: > On 9/25/05, Clive Menzies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I spoke to Acer support who referred me to the small print re: official > > acer software blah di blah. > > > I assume you bought the notebook in the UK. In this case european consumer > law is applicable, and you can conveniently ignore all the smallprint. If > they advertise a 64bit CPU, you can rightfully expect to run 64bit > applications. They may not support the OS, but you are not asking them to > support the OS, so that should be fine. Yes, things have moved on. Following the various posts here and Giulio's suggestion to stress test the system under windows, I found Hotcpu Tester which has about 6 hours of tests including arithmetic tests. I tried the first one and it shut the machine down in about 5 mins. > You can also try to get thermal zones to work. With ACPI that may be > supported on Linux 2.6. In effect, the clock frequency is reduced when the > temperature gets too high, and this prevents overheating. > > Personally though, I would not put up with a lemon, and I would get them fix > the issue. > > I've just > > tried the Ubuntu install and whilst exploring how it handles samba > > networking it shutdown X with an error along the lines of temp exceeding > > 44 degrees shutting down. > > > 44 degrees is not that much, after all the notebook should probably work > with an environment temperature up to about 35 degrees. So maybe Ubuntu is > being to conservative here? Maybe thermal zones are already set up, but the > shut down temperature is very low? > I spoke to a fairly enlightened support person who agreed that it obviously a h/w issue although he said 44 degrees is more likely to refer to the system than the cpu. He confirmed the amd64 chip should run 64 bit applications without a problem irrespective of the operating system. So it's back to Acer again for repair. > Unfortunately, I could never get thermal zones to work, so I can't really > help you with that :-) If it is repaired properly, it shouldn't be necessary. Many thanks for everyone's help ;) Regards Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
overheating... I don't have a amd64 laptop, but I know that if you accidentally block the airflow you can get REALLY hot REALLY fast. Also, leave airflow *under* the unit. I don't understand the thermal diffusion, but I know that keeping that area ventilated really helps cut down the heat even when burning cds and stuff of that nature.
Re: Heat problem with amd64 laptop
Igor Puschner wrote (ao): > > At the risk of starting a flamewar (not my intention) what would you > > recommend? I'd recommend IBM (using a X40), but that's not 64bit yet. > Well, and then there is Sony and the Vaio line. My former teacher used > one and said he had no real problems with getting Linux up and running > on it (i can't either confirm nor deny this, is there anyone with > experiences who can help?) Linux runs just fine on them, but boy are they fragile. I loved my C1VE. -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
