Tyan, Dell, Medion [Was: Re: Machine died]
Hello. Just to close this thread and thank all those who have provided advice. And also say all the bad I think of Tyan's literally non-existing support: I sent them a mail asking for advice on the possible causes of the motherboard (K8W Tiger S2875) behaviour I was seeing. They didn't even answer (yet?), after more than 5 weeks! Finally, I had the opportunity to buy a complete low-cost Medion desktop. I was afraid that some components might not be supported by Linux but, so far, no problem: CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 Motherboard: MSI * integrated audio (playback and recording) works * integrated wired network works * integrated firewire works * integrated memory card reader works Graphics: Nvidia 9600 GT HDD: Western Digital (1 TB) And very silent :-) [Only, I didn't find the advertised wireless network (couldn't spot anything related to it in dmesg) but I as I didn't intend to use it anyway...] For one moment, I considered Dell. I called them because their site is very uninformative concerning the hardware. I told them I wanted to use Linux and be sure that it would work with the shipped components. The answer was that I could erase the pre-installed M$ stuff but that the warranty would not apply if some components did not work. Saying that if I could not get any compatibility info or even just a hardware list to check myself, I wouldn't be able to buy from them, the guy just said No and hung up. [Compare that with Aldi (where I bought the Medion machine): Within one month, one can return the whole thing and be reimbursed, no question asked.] Best, Gilles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Machine died
I am thinking, no BIOS reprogram necessary. Power Supply is always a good guess. I think it is time for a new system, but don't completely give up on the old one. Build a new machine, and when it is up and running, go back and see if the old one can be salvaged and put to good use. Bad RAM is always a potential problem too if the pwoer supply isn't it. I'm still not sure that my power supply is good; but even if it isn't, since I tried another one with all RAM unplugged, I figure that the MB should have beeped. No? If so, RAM can be bad, but the MB is surely bad :-/ Talking about RAM, is it possible to re-use it in a new MB? That is if the frequency is _lower_ than the one recommended by the MB? Also, I think that they are ECC. If not, what make is recommended nowadays? Build the new machine using an Intel CPU this time 'round, whether it was AMD or Intel before. Core 2 is your best bet, A Xeon for servers or multisocket workstations. It is too soon to buy Nehalem, if you need to buy it today. If you can wait three months, consider a Core i7. I agree entirely. I didn't think of that. That's a good idea since although with my usage a Core 2 is more than enough, I assume (?) that the prices might drop when the new series is available. [I can use the laptop in the meantime but I'll have to transfer data that was on a RAID1 disk. Is there anything I should be aware of if I plug this drive as an external (USB) disk? Do you know the mdadm command to use to make the RAID partition available (possibly read-only)?] Almost any wired network NIC will do. The onboard ones are probably supported by Linux. Yeah usually. I discovered recently that some (like BNX2 that IBM uses a lot) require a firmware file. How annoying when doing a netinstall. What do you think of this MB: http://www.cotubex.be/informatics/info.asp?cat=Motherboardartnr=34821navniv=2 Get a 80+ PS, meaning a PS that is at least 80% efficient. If you use it in an office building, or business, get one with power factor correction. What is the advantage? Do you have a specific make in mind? For a personal desktop machine, if 3d is necessary, nVidia or AMD/ATI both will do. AMD recently had its fiasco with the midrange chips. You may with to go with the red team (ATI) this time, until nVidia gets its act together. I am sticking with nvidia until ati gets their driver act together (hasn't ever happend yet, but there is always hope it will happen some day). My experience is that ATI makes great video chips and reliable boards, and have amazingly bad drivers and support. I used to use nothing else until I got badly burned by that, and won't deal with them again until they prove they care about customers. Also an ASUS card then? Do I lose something (since I'm currently not a gamer) by taking the cheapest from those: N7200GS N8400GS N8600GT N9600GT N9600GTX [I just might want to try compiz some day...] Is there a recommended card (from the point-of-view of the debian-packaged driver support)? Thanks for the advice, Gilles --- More than 2000 Scarlet customers don't pay a subscription anymore! Join and surf free of charge! http://www.scarlet.be/nl/mgm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Machine died
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 03:10:23PM +0100, Gilles wrote: I'm still not sure that my power supply is good; but even if it isn't, since I tried another one with all RAM unplugged, I figure that the MB should have beeped. No? If so, RAM can be bad, but the MB is surely bad :-/ A board without ram may do nothing at all (not even beep). Depends on the design of the board. Talking about RAM, is it possible to re-use it in a new MB? That is if the frequency is _lower_ than the one recommended by the MB? Also, I think that they are ECC. If not, what make is recommended nowadays? Depends on the board. As for what ram is good for a server, I have no idea, I mainly deal with desktops. I didn't think of that. That's a good idea since although with my usage a Core 2 is more than enough, I assume (?) that the prices might drop when the new series is available. Aren't the prices low enough for you already? For raw processing power, a Q6600 is quite something for the money (I run my mythtv box with one), although the Q9xxx series will use less power and run quieter. [I can use the laptop in the meantime but I'll have to transfer data that was on a RAID1 disk. Is there anything I should be aware of if I plug this drive as an external (USB) disk? Do you know the mdadm command to use to make the RAID partition available (possibly read-only)?] Just assemble with mdadm with a missing device, and it should be fine. What do you think of this MB: http://www.cotubex.be/informatics/info.asp?cat=Motherboardartnr=34821navniv=2 It seems like a nice board. I use a P5K along with my Q6600. I think the P5Q is pretty much just an update from that. I used a P5Q-Pro for my father's new machine a couple of month ago, although he runs windows so I have no idea how linux runs on it. I would expect no problem with linux since it is an intel chipset though. For memory I used: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT25664AA80A DDR2-6400 2*2GB. Fast, and so far reliable. What is the advantage? Do you have a specific make in mind? It is more efficient, so costs less to run in the long term. I like PC Power Cooling myself. The Silencer 610 is what I used for this last machien I built. Single 12V rail is so much simpler and more efficient to work with that most power supplies that use multiple 12V rails. Also an ASUS card then? Do I lose something (since I'm currently not a gamer) by taking the cheapest from those: N7200GS N8400GS N8600GT N9600GT N9600GTX [I just might want to try compiz some day...] Well the last card I got was for my father which was a PNY Quadro FX 3700, but that's a special case. I have an 8600GT in my mythtv box. I don't like the x500 and lower since they tend to go for very slow crappy ram, and tend to have VGA connectors which I will never have a need for again (and DVI to VGA dongles are easy to get if I did). XFX, MSI, Asus, etc all make perfectly decent video cards. The main difference is that some are overclocked and some have silent or at least quieter cooling. Other than that the difference is what software they include in the box, but unless you like games on windows and they include one you want, that isn't really anything to care about. Some have better warrenty and service. Is there a recommended card (from the point-of-view of the debian-packaged driver support)? The 9xxx could still be a problem because they are so new. 8xxx and lower should not be a problem. Of course the older the model, the sooner one could start to have to use a legacy support driver, so sticking with 8xxx might make sense. The driver in lenny however will support the 9600GT, all the 8xxx cards and lower. 9800GX2 and 9800GTX are also supported, but rather expensive. There is no such thing as a 9600GTX, so probably not supported. :) -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Machine died
Gilles wrote: I am thinking, no BIOS reprogram necessary. Power Supply is always a good guess. I think it is time for a new system, but don't completely give up on the old one. Build a new machine, and when it is up and running, go back and see if the old one can be salvaged and put to good use. Bad RAM is always a potential problem too if the pwoer supply isn't it. I'm still not sure that my power supply is good; but even if it isn't, since I tried another one with all RAM unplugged, I figure that the MB should have beeped. No? If so, RAM can be bad, but the MB is surely bad :-/ Depends. Most boards beep, but they don't always. Talking about RAM, is it possible to re-use it in a new MB? That is if the frequency is _lower_ than the one recommended by the MB? Also, I think that they are ECC. If not, what make is recommended nowadays? Get new RAM. You want a board with DDR2 or DDR3. A Core i7 needs DDR3. ECC is needed only for certain applications. A home user probably shouldn't spend the money. Some boards and chipsets need registered/FB memory, but Intel, et al is getting away from this. Build the new machine using an Intel CPU this time 'round, whether it was AMD or Intel before. Core 2 is your best bet, A Xeon for servers or multisocket workstations. It is too soon to buy Nehalem, if you need to buy it today. If you can wait three months, consider a Core i7. I agree entirely. I didn't think of that. That's a good idea since although with my usage a Core 2 is more than enough, I assume (?) that the prices might drop when the new series is available. Prices on Core 2 will drop with i7 (Nehalem) out. Nehalem will completely replace Core 2. It is probably a good idea to go with a GigaByte or MSI board for i7, if you want to be forward-looking. But I would wait 3-4 months if possible for the market to stabilize and the worst bugs to be squashed. [I can use the laptop in the meantime but I'll have to transfer data that was on a RAID1 disk. Is there anything I should be aware of if I plug this drive as an external (USB) disk? Do you know the mdadm command to use to make the RAID partition available (possibly read-only)?] With RAID 1, just plug the drive into the machine and go. If not Linux, you are probably already ready to go. With Linux soft RAID, tell md you have a degraded RAID/missing drive. Almost any wired network NIC will do. The onboard ones are probably supported by Linux. Yeah usually. I discovered recently that some (like BNX2 that IBM uses a lot) require a firmware file. How annoying when doing a netinstall. What do you think of this MB: http://www.cotubex.be/informatics/info.asp?cat=Motherboardartnr=34821navniv=2 In general, I see no showstoppers. It is a P45 board, with is not as mature as the P35/38, etc., which I actually regard as a good thing. The Core 2 stuff is mature, yet P45 will still get some tweaks and updates. ASUS is pretty good about that. Get a 80+ PS, meaning a PS that is at least 80% efficient. If you use it in an office building, or business, get one with power factor correction. What is the advantage? Do you have a specific make in mind? 80+ is a certification (new thing) that guarantees that your PS will use less power and be more efficient in its design range. (Don't buy more PS than you need.) 80% efficient will use a bit less power and run cooler. There are some PSes that claim 85%-plus efficiency. Don't overpay, though. You can easily pay more for the 80+ rating than the thing will save you in power. I liked PC Power and Cooling at one time, but now, I read reviews and try to get one that is a good buy. There are some websites like hardocp.com that review such things. Hardocp's emphasis is the enthusiast market. But a good PS is a good PS. For a personal desktop machine, if 3d is necessary, nVidia or AMD/ATI both will do. AMD recently had its fiasco with the midrange chips. You may with to go with the red team (ATI) this time, until nVidia gets its act together. I am sticking with nvidia until ati gets their driver act together (hasn't ever happend yet, but there is always hope it will happen some day). My experience is that ATI makes great video chips and reliable boards, and have amazingly bad drivers and support. I used to use nothing else until I got badly burned by that, and won't deal with them again until they prove they care about customers. Also an ASUS card then? Do I lose something (since I'm currently not a gamer) by taking the cheapest from those: N7200GS N8400GS N8600GT N9600GT N9600GTX [I just might want to try compiz some day...] Go with MSI, Gigabyte, BFG, XFX, EVGA, etc. Asus is too expensive on video. In a mature card, a factory overclock is probably a good idea. If you want a good price/performance ratio, an 8600GTS, or 9600GT. For a Windows machine, nVidia 260/216 is a nice card. A little pricey. Is there
Machine died
Hello.
Three years and a half ago, I bought a machine composed of what I thought
were good quality components:
MB: Dual Opteron MB Tyan Tiger K8W (S2875)
Graphics: Asus V9520 TD (FX 5200) - AGP
Power Supply: FSP Blue STorm (500W)
RAM: Kingston KVR333 (4x256MB)
Ten days ago, I halted the machine after 106 days uninterrupted use.
Strangely, it didn't shut down completely by itself: I had to switch the
main power supply. [IIRC the last line on the screen contained
acpi_power_off.]
Then the machine simply wouldn't start.
After clearing the CMOS, switching on the main PS would (directly, i.e.
without pressing the power button on the tower) start all the fans, and
all LEDs are on (power, HDD, CD). But nothing more happens (no boot).
A LED display on the MB indicates FF. Removing all the extension cards
doesn't change this behaviour.
I also tried another PS but that one doesn't even start the fans, which
seems the correct behaviour (?) but I cannot be completely sure.
Then, we discovered that the fan of the graphics card had burnt!
Could this be cause of the MB not working anymore? Visually there isn't
any sign of other burnt components on the MB.
I sent an email to Tyan last Friday; they haven't even acknowledged
receiving it... And their web site warns that you shouldn't send a message
twice lest you want that they answer even more slowly. Really nice.
One last thing I wanted to try is to have the BIOS chip reprogrammed (in
case it was somehow corrupted during the problem, whatever that was). But
no one offers this service here (Brussels) and the reseller is not really
helpful either...
So, it seems that after less than 4 years I am obliged to buy a new MB and,
consequently a new CPU (while we are otherwise still using an 8 years old
Athlon machine!). And a graphics card.
So I come here for:
1. Suggestions about the possible cause of the problem. Is there anything
else I can do to know what went wrong (if not repair)?
2. Advice on what to buy (CPU, MB, graphics and RAM) since it is doubtful
that I will get any help from Tyan.
With the usual provision: Everything must work with Debian GNU/Linux,
especially:
- Audio: both play _and_ recording (on the ThinkPad laptop I recently
bought, recording doesn't work: The chipset is not supported by the
kernel).
- 3D graphics acceleration
- Network
And, are there makes that offer longer warranty?
Thanks for reading my lament. :-{
Best regards,
Gilles
---
More than 2000 Scarlet customers don't pay a subscription anymore!
Join and surf free of charge! http://www.scarlet.be/nl/mgm
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Machine died
Gilles wrote:
Hello.
Three years and a half ago, I bought a machine composed of what I thought
were good quality components:
MB: Dual Opteron MB Tyan Tiger K8W (S2875)
Graphics: Asus V9520 TD (FX 5200) - AGP
Power Supply: FSP Blue STorm (500W)
RAM: Kingston KVR333 (4x256MB)
Ten days ago, I halted the machine after 106 days uninterrupted use.
Strangely, it didn't shut down completely by itself: I had to switch the
main power supply. [IIRC the last line on the screen contained
acpi_power_off.]
Then the machine simply wouldn't start.
After clearing the CMOS, switching on the main PS would (directly, i.e.
without pressing the power button on the tower) start all the fans, and
all LEDs are on (power, HDD, CD). But nothing more happens (no boot).
A LED display on the MB indicates FF. Removing all the extension cards
doesn't change this behaviour.
I also tried another PS but that one doesn't even start the fans, which
seems the correct behaviour (?) but I cannot be completely sure.
Then, we discovered that the fan of the graphics card had burnt!
Could this be cause of the MB not working anymore? Visually there isn't
any sign of other burnt components on the MB.
I sent an email to Tyan last Friday; they haven't even acknowledged
receiving it... And their web site warns that you shouldn't send a message
twice lest you want that they answer even more slowly. Really nice.
One last thing I wanted to try is to have the BIOS chip reprogrammed (in
case it was somehow corrupted during the problem, whatever that was). But
no one offers this service here (Brussels) and the reseller is not really
helpful either...
So, it seems that after less than 4 years I am obliged to buy a new MB and,
consequently a new CPU (while we are otherwise still using an 8 years old
Athlon machine!). And a graphics card.
So I come here for:
1. Suggestions about the possible cause of the problem. Is there anything
else I can do to know what went wrong (if not repair)?
2. Advice on what to buy (CPU, MB, graphics and RAM) since it is doubtful
that I will get any help from Tyan.
With the usual provision: Everything must work with Debian GNU/Linux,
especially:
- Audio: both play _and_ recording (on the ThinkPad laptop I recently
bought, recording doesn't work: The chipset is not supported by the
kernel).
- 3D graphics acceleration
- Network
And, are there makes that offer longer warranty?
Thanks for reading my lament. :-{
Best regards,
Gilles
I am thinking, no BIOS reprogram necessary. Power Supply is always a
good guess. I think it is time for a new system, but don't completely
give up on the old one. Build a new machine, and when it is up and
running, go back and see if the old one can be salvaged and put to good use.
Build the new machine using an Intel CPU this time 'round, whether it
was AMD or Intel before. Core 2 is your best bet, A Xeon for servers or
multisocket workstations. It is too soon to buy Nehalem, if you need to
buy it today. If you can wait three months, consider a Core i7.
Almost any wired network NIC will do. The onboard ones are probably
supported by Linux.
Get a 80+ PS, meaning a PS that is at least 80% efficient. If you use
it in an office building, or business, get one with power factor correction.
For a personal desktop machine, if 3d is necessary, nVidia or AMD/ATI
both will do. AMD recently had its fiasco with the midrange chips. You
may with to go with the red team (ATI) this time, until nVidia gets its
act together.
An Intel motherboard (I mean the motherboard itself is Intel) is
generally supported well by Linux.
This is general advice. For specific advice, often the enthusiast
magazines are a good place to start.
Mark Allums
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