Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 06:19:54AM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: But, I am not interested in whether it was sw raid or not --not that box anyway. All I wanted was the raid *functionality*. I dont care if it comes through sw or lord knows what. I need raid that works accross multiple OSes. That is all. I am just begging that someone integrate dmraid into debian installer; I wish I was that good at it to be able to do it myself. I never got the impression dmraid was that stable yet, but perhaps someone could add that support in, if it actually works. Probably part of the problem is that many of those that could do it, don't care to as they don't run windows and would prefer linux software raid. That is one of the problems we have with open source free software, only what people care about is being worked on (where it is the what the implementor cares about that matters, not the end user). 3ware and Adaptec had their days and they are over. Unfortunaltely I have many of those cards. What can you currently buy that is better than the 3ware for running with Linux? What you want is Areca. http://www.areca.com.tw Well they do appear to have open source drivers, and have a neat card. Nice to see someone else getting into the business doing the right thing. Too bad their web site or rather ftp server is a mess. Many of the links on their web page give ftp errors about module not currently available (including the linux driver dir, many of the manuals, etc). Now if I could see their manual I would be able to tell if their PCI-X card works in regular PCI slots, and how many machines have PCIe x8 slots yet? I have seen x1 and x4 quite a bit, but not x8. Avalilable in PCI-X and PCIe, it supports both SATA II and RAID6 (so that you're still safe even if 2 drives fail). Here are the links. Raid6? Will have to look that one up. For the benchmark: http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041227/areca-raid6-06.html To me those benchmarks say Get the 3ware instead. This is where you get the source code: ftp://60.248.88.208/RaidCards/AP_Drivers/Linux/DRIVER/SourceCode Yeah that's one of the ftp dirs that doesnt' work right now. It will, except that I would simply replace the current ones with those --to double up the capacity. So, it does not really help the greed :-) That would be a rather large number of T1s in one system. Former. And a bit of latter g Well no simple solution it seems, given I don't believe dmraid is considered very robust or stable yet. Given lvm and software raid only made it into the Debian installer fairly recently, I am not surprised support for dmraid did not. Things have to be rather stable and well understood to make it into the installer as far as I can tell. I can't even figoure out if dmraid works isng the dm-mirror module, or something else that isn't even included in the standard 2.6 kernel sources. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
What can you currently buy that is better than the 3ware for running with Linux? Areca. 3ware seems to be sitting on their laurels lately. That makes me very uneasy. What you want is Areca. http://www.areca.com.tw Too bad their web site or rather ftp server is a mess. Many of the links on their web page give ftp errors about module not currently available (including the linux driver dir, many of the manuals, etc). Their FTP server worked for me OK. I used Firefox (not an ftp client) and did not have any problems. Now if I could see their manual I would be able to tell if their PCI-X card works in regular PCI slots, I have no idea, yet. and how many machines have PCIe x8 slots yet? I have seen x1 and x4 quite a bit, but not x8. Here is some http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8se.html http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we_spec.html Avalilable in PCI-X and PCIe, it supports both SATA II and RAID6 (so that you're still safe even if 2 drives fail). Here are the links. Raid6? Will have to look that one up. http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041227/areca-raid6-01.html RAID6 uses two drives in the array to be used just for checksums. RAID6 is useful if you're multi-paranoid :-) For the benchmark: http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041227/areca-raid6-06.html To me those benchmarks say Get the 3ware instead. Not really. There is more reading to be done. Comparison of Nine SATA RAID 5 Adapters http://www.tweakers.net/reviews/557/32 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/08/1434208tid=198 http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/11/2111235tid=198 Well no simple solution it seems, given I don't believe dmraid is considered very robust or stable yet. Given lvm and software raid only made it into the Debian installer fairly recently, I am not surprised support for dmraid did not. Things have to be rather stable and well understood to make it into the installer as far as I can tell. That being so, I suspect it could have been included with a great big warning that it is experimental. That is only if someone else saw the need for it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Cameron Patrick wrote: Yes, that would be great. It might also be possible to get PCI IDs from within Windows XP, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that. Hi Cameron, I have a Windows 2003 Server with 4 RAID cards, and it is a little easier (than say WinXP, I suppose) to get their PCI IDs under Win2K3. The first one below is 3Ware RAID card which has had its driver as part of Linux kernel for ages. I am only giving details about this card to help you sort out what is what whith the others. I too have had similar installation problems with SATA-RAID stuff with SiI chipset and I was forced not to use Debian. I do very much hope that the stuff below helps you guys to make Debian installation auto-detect SiI chipset and use SATARAID with them. If you need further info, please ask. I'll do my best to supply whatever information needed (assuming the following are somewhat related :-) ) You can also directly mail me if you see the need. === AMCC 3Ware 7000/8000 Series ATA RAID Controller === Device Instance ID --- PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001SUBSYS_100113C1REV_01\48140C803850 --- Hardware IDs --- PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001SUBSYS_100113C1REV_01 PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001SUBSYS_100113C1 PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001CC_010400 PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001CC_0104 --- Compatible IDs --- PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001REV_01 PCI\VEN_13C1DEV_1001 PCI\VEN_13C1CC_010400 PCI\VEN_13C1CC_0104 PCI\VEN_13C1 PCI\CC_010400 PCI\CC_0104 === SiliconImage SiI 3112 SATARaid Controller === Device Instance ID --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095REV_02\42F18F19903058 --- Hardware IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112CC_010400 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112CC_0104 --- Compatible IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112 PCI\VEN_1095CC_010400 PCI\VEN_1095CC_0104 PCI\VEN_1095 PCI\CC_010400 PCI\CC_0104 === SiliconImage SiI 3114 SATARaid Controller === Device Instance ID --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095REV_02\4310B4F6B05830 --- Hardware IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114CC_018000 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114CC_0180 --- Compatible IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114 PCI\VEN_1095CC_018000 PCI\VEN_1095CC_0180 PCI\VEN_1095 PCI\CC_018000 PCI\CC_0180 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 03:22:27PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: I too have had similar installation problems with SATA-RAID stuff with SiI chipset and I was forced not to use Debian. SiI SATA RAID is not hardware RAID. See Jeff Garzik's SATA RAID FAQ at http://linux.yyz.us/sata/faq-sata-raid.html#sii . You can do the same thing in Linux using an md device. I do very much hope that the stuff below helps you guys to make Debian installation auto-detect SiI chipset and use SATARAID with them. Try dmraid, see the SATA RAID FAQ: http://linux.yyz.us/sata/faq-sata-raid.html#dmraid I haven't tried it, but together with device mapper it should be enough to get it started. Erik -- +-- Erik Mouw -- www.harddisk-recovery.com -- +31 70 370 12 90 -- | Lab address: Delftechpark 26, 2628 XH, Delft, The Netherlands -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 03:22:27PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: I have a Windows 2003 Server with 4 RAID cards, and it is a little easier (than say WinXP, I suppose) to get their PCI IDs under Win2K3. The first one below is 3Ware RAID card which has had its driver as part of Linux kernel for ages. I am only giving details about this card to help you sort out what is what whith the others. I too have had similar installation problems with SATA-RAID stuff with SiI chipset and I was forced not to use Debian. Well I would say you could have used Debian, you would just have had to use a different SATA card or a newer kernel. Best is of course to check compatibility of hardware before buying it. I do very much hope that the stuff below helps you guys to make Debian installation auto-detect SiI chipset and use SATARAID with them. If you need further info, please ask. I'll do my best to supply whatever information needed (assuming the following are somewhat related :-) ) You can also directly mail me if you see the need. === SiliconImage SiI 3112 SATARaid Controller === Device Instance ID --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095REV_02\42F18F19903058 --- Hardware IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112SUBSYS_61121095 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112CC_010400 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112CC_0104 --- Compatible IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3112 PCI\VEN_1095CC_010400 PCI\VEN_1095CC_0104 PCI\VEN_1095 PCI\CC_010400 PCI\CC_0104 The 3112 has been supported for a long time now, and works perfectly fine (in plain SATA mode). === SiliconImage SiI 3114 SATARaid Controller === Device Instance ID --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095REV_02\4310B4F6B05830 --- Hardware IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114SUBSYS_31141095 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114CC_018000 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114CC_0180 --- Compatible IDs --- PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114REV_02 PCI\VEN_1095DEV_3114 PCI\VEN_1095CC_018000 PCI\VEN_1095CC_0180 PCI\VEN_1095 PCI\CC_018000 PCI\CC_0180 This one is at least supported in 2.6.10 and above, in plain SATA mode. Using the proprietary software raid crap in the Sil chips isn't recomended. If you want hardware SATA raid, get the 3ware above. The rest work fine fr running linux software raid (which is how I use the Sil controllers). Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Erik Mouw wrote: On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 03:22:27PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: I too have had similar installation problems with SATA-RAID stuff with SiI chipset and I was forced not to use Debian. SiI SATA RAID is not hardware RAID. See Jeff Garzik's SATA RAID FAQ at http://linux.yyz.us/sata/faq-sata-raid.html#sii . Having found myself unable to install Debian AMD64 on that box, I naturally found out that SiI 311x stuff is not hardware RAID. Trouble is, I wanted to dual boot stuff --not just Linux but also Windows etc., and being enlightened about SiI not being hardware raid really did not help. Apparently, it does not help even now. You can do the same thing in Linux using an md device. I do very much hope that the stuff below helps you guys to make Debian installation auto-detect SiI chipset and use SATARAID with them. Try dmraid, see the SATA RAID FAQ: http://linux.yyz.us/sata/faq-sata-raid.html#dmraid I haven't tried it, but together with device mapper it should be enough to get it started. OK. This sounds like an interesting approach. Except that, I dont see how it works when you are at the box installing Debian --that is, if I got it right, dmraid comes into play only after you installed Debian yet you need its functionality *during* installation. IOW, dmraid needs to be integrated into the installer, no? :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 03:22:27PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: I have a Windows 2003 Server with 4 RAID cards, and it is a little easier (than say WinXP, I suppose) to get their PCI IDs under Win2K3. The first one below is 3Ware RAID card which has had its driver as part of Linux kernel for ages. I am only giving details about this card to help you sort out what is what whith the others. I too have had similar installation problems with SATA-RAID stuff with SiI chipset and I was forced not to use Debian. Well I would say you could have used Debian, you would just have had to use a different SATA card or a newer kernel. Naturally you are not responsible for the evils in the world :-) so don't take this as a personal world :-) But, to have to buy another card just to be able to run Debian is sort of an overkill, isn't it? Best is of course to check compatibility of hardware before buying it. I could not agree more. Except that, I was not spoilt for choice, this is a dual Opteron box (Tyan K8W) and at the time there were not a lot of producers that supplied this. === SiliconImage SiI 3114 SATARaid Controller === This one is at least supported in 2.6.10 and above, in plain SATA mode. Using the proprietary software raid crap in the Sil chips isn't recomended. Why not? The lowly Windows has been doing just fine with SiI; why is it not recommended under Linux? CPU cycles? What if I have sufficient cycles, but need as many PCI slots as I can together with RAID protection? If you want hardware SATA raid, get the 3ware above. The rest work fine fr running linux software raid (which is how I use the Sil controllers). Having to purchase another PCI card just to be able to have RAID does not only cost more, but it also means I have one PCI slot less.. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
so don't take this as a personal world Sorry for the typo, I meant: so please don't take this personal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
eternalnewbee wrote: This one is at least supported in 2.6.10 and above, in plain SATA mode. Using the proprietary software raid crap in the Sil chips isn't recomended. Why not? The lowly Windows has been doing just fine with SiI; why is it not recommended under Linux? Linux's md RAID subsystem has been around for a long time, can do more than the SiI's drivers (e.g. if you wanted RAID 5 or RAID 6; or some of your RAID components were on a different controller), makes it easier to move the array to a different controller in the future, and often gives much higher performance than other software RAID implementations. The dmraid driver under Linux (which I've never used) should support the on-disk format used by your SiI controller's firmware if you need it for some reason, e.g. compatibility with another operating system on the same array. However it isn't supported by the Debian installer yet, so you'd have to install the system temporarily onto another (non-RAID) drive, and then move it across later. Note that it's still software RAID, the same as the RAID functionality provided by SiI's Windows drivers is. Cameron. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:15:14PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: Naturally you are not responsible for the evils in the world :-) so don't take this as a personal world :-) But, to have to buy another card just to be able to run Debian is sort of an overkill, isn't it? Well I wouldn't use the raid feature of that card in the first place. I would either buy a 3ware raid card, or use software raid. If Sil won't release official specs on how to talk to their proprietary raid, that is their (and any customer of them) problem. Having to reverse engineer everything is just too much hassle, especially when linux software raid performs better than their software raid. I could not agree more. Except that, I was not spoilt for choice, this is a dual Opteron box (Tyan K8W) and at the time there were not a lot of producers that supplied this. True, but I still think if you want raid and dual boot, buy a real supported hardware raid card. Those with binary only proprietary modules have a tendancy to only provide drivers for a few versions of redhat and suse, and often break when you try to change the kernel version at all. And if the maker ever decides those linux drivers aren't worth maintaining, you are stuck with a useless raid or using an old kernel and distribution forever. Of course they could release the specifications and let an open source driver be written and included in the kernel, but apparently they think raid is special knowledge that can't be shared, even though there are already better implementations out there in open source. Why not? It is slower, and you can't move it to another raid card trivially. With linux software raid you can move to another controller at any time. That is certainly a problem of any hardware raid although when people buy high end hardware raid cards they tend to be able to get replacements for many years. The lowly Windows has been doing just fine with SiI; why is it not recommended under Linux? The raid performance I have seen in reviews have been much worse under windows than under linux. And of course windows doesn't by default come with software raid support (except the high end versions). CPU cycles? It uses more than md raid. What if I have sufficient cycles, but need as many PCI slots as I can together with RAID protection? You can't spare one slot for raid? Having to purchase another PCI card just to be able to have RAID does not only cost more, but it also means I have one PCI slot less.. Well you could scrap windows. Toy desktops dual boot, very few real use machines run more than one OS. Well at least in my experience that is. perhaps one could run a software raid on one pair of disks for linux, and proprietary raid on another pair for windows. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:18:27PM +0300, eternalnewbee wrote: As I said earlier, SW RAID wass out of question: the box was to have multi-OS installation. You ARE using software raid, just with some BIOS support and drivers for windows. That doesn't change it from being software raid. I think I even read in a magazine recently how eo enable software raid in win xp even though it is only supposed to be a feature in the higher server versions. There are very few hardware raid cards that do SATA. 3ware is one maker, and I think adaptec has one or two models (most of theirs are not hardware raid), and highpoint migh thave one model. The 3ware is the only one I know of with open source drivers. You certainly don't get hardware raid onboard except some very high end servers (almost always scsi). I have no shortage of 3ware cards. But, I needed all the PCI slots; this was a comm center box which needed as many WanPipe/Digium cards. Did you know there is an 8 port wanpipe card coming out in the next 3 months? That might help your pci slot problem. On the other hand, why would you need to dual boot a machine that is used for such things? Developing for both linux and windows or just playing around? BigEvilishGrin This is a recorded message, isn't it? /BigEvilishGrin Well not really, just more general purpose good advice. Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
I thank YOU for the answers .. ;) Thanks for the detailed response. I agree that the OC wasn't an issue in your case, which is why I placed [OT] (off-topice) in the subject line. I assume that many AMD64 users are going to OC, because the platform is easily capable of it, so I thought it might be helpful for other users to note that some motherboards may have problems that look like a driver issue when they are in fact hardware problems. Knoppix has the advantage of taking Debian, which is an 80% finished product, and then customizing the last 20% with the latest up-to-date software and drivers. There will always be some lag between the two. Cheers, tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Yeah, that's what I'm really thinking about : to install Knoppix onto the HDD, and then to upgrade (or downgrade?) ;) it to Sarge. Although I like the Knoppix interface .. ;) Thank you for the idea :) Ciao: Tudiatya (Eperkutyus too) :) Sorry, I misunderstood -- I thought you wanted to get Debian installed, I didn't realize you wanted to put pressure on the developers and improve the installer. I'll let them respond in that case. BTW, did you know you could just install from Knoppix? It won't give you the cleanest Debian, but it sure works. I'm guessing the Knoppix people would be more interested in overclockers than most Debian developers, but I could be wrong. Dave -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Tudiatya wrote: Hi there, Do you dear Debian Sarge driver developers see ANY chance of integrating this module into the Debian Installer's module list ? Lots of A64 motherboards use this, I use DDR500 anyway, CPU @ 2500 instead of basic 1800 . Sometimes I play, sometimes I would use Debian .. but I can't (I won't go down with the clock, it's rock stable right now for days and fast enough). Did you try to use the sata_sil module? Regards Harri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
No, I didn't try sata_sil .. I don't know, how. :) The Debian Installer modules list (which modules to load) doesn't contain sata_sil, only sata_nv. :( -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Tudiatya wrote: No, I didn't try sata_sil .. I don't know, how. :) The Debian Installer modules list (which modules to load) doesn't contain sata_sil, only sata_nv. :( Hi, While the SiI controllers should normally be fairly well supported, but what you say suggests that the installer hasn't picked the the SiI controller at all. If you send the output of `lspci` and `lspci -n`, we can look into why this might be the case. Cameron. (Who, erm, doesn't own an AMD64 or any SATA equipment, but has a vague understanding of how Debian's hardware detection works.) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Okay, I went from the installer to Execute a shell, but in the shell, lspci was not recognized as a command, so this won't take me further. :( (I don't have Linux, WinXP only ! Would it help you if I let a Suse Live CD run and lspci from there?) What interesting is, that there's a module called siimage in the installer's list, but I think that's for another type of silicon image controller. Would it perhaps help, if the installer would include sata_sil in it's list of selectable modules ? One another thing: people talk about that in lots of SATA topics that we have to set the compatibility mode in the BIOS so the installer sees the HDD - then recompile kernel etc with sata_nv and finally BIOS back to normal. I don't understand this, why to install a linux that hard way, on the other hand this procedure was for the sata_nv but probably would also work for sata_sil.. but anyway, why ??? This stupid WinXP installs onto both controllers without any word .. I don't have spare PATA HDD to cheat the whole thing out and MSI boards doesn't have compatibility mode regarding SATA controllers either - so it means, my BIOS reports on the Energy Star pre-boot screen the following: Primary Master - None Primary Slave - CDROM (actually name differs) Secondary Master - None Secondary Slave - None Third Master - None Fourth Master - None Fifth Master - My SATA Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (160G) Sixth Master - None That's it. Third Fourth are sata_nv and of course unused because of the NOT-fixed 33MHz clock, Fifth Sixth are sata_sil whici I use right now. If I disable Third Fourth in the BIOS, Fifth and Sixth won't appear as Third and Fourth, for PATA IDE Secondary Master controller Disable it's the same. On my Abit IC7 Intel chipset I had that Compatibility mode where if a controller was disabled, higher numbered channels took it's number, but now that's not the way to handle it. But anyway, if linux does have sata_sil already, we just need to put it into the menu of the debian installer as a loadable module, or am I wrong ? :( Sry for being so long ... - Original Message - From: Cameron Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-amd64@lists.debian.org Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:53 PM Subject: Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 01:21:24AM +0200, Tudiatya wrote: Hi there, I'm using a MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - 4 SATA port, 2 of them nVidia, 2 of them Silicon Image controllers. The built-in nvidia controller isn't much useful, since it's clock isn't fixed 33MHz - as I raise FSB, it raises too and leads to serious freezes right at the beginning of the boot process. Do you dear Debian Sarge driver developers see ANY chance of integrating this module into the Debian Installer's module list ? Lots of A64 motherboards use this, I use DDR500 anyway, CPU @ 2500 instead of basic 1800 . Sometimes I play, sometimes I would use Debian .. but I can't (I won't go down with the clock, it's rock stable right now for days and fast enough). I tried to install several images and daily builds with sata_nv support, but: 1) I had to plug my HDD to the nVidia connector (the one NOT next to the CPU/AGP) 2) I had to go back to the basic clock 1800 in order to be able to boot in on the nVidia controller I don't get the point oif overclocking, so I see no great loss there. 3) At every install at the first reboot while the system boots, I always get messages like sata controller enabled and after it sata controller disabled (the text may be something else, I don't remember actually). These messages occur if I press a button on the keyboard but if I don't do anything it still occurs continuously. It writes everything over what's on the screen, so I couldn't even set up my adsl account with pppoeconf.. crazy, stupid, mad thing .. Disable any unused SATA ports on the nvidia controller in the bios, and those messages go away. I have no idea why that happens but it does. I think there're too much boards out there in order to make Debian Daily Builds and Sarge sil3114 compatible - so why doesn't it happen ??? :( Is Sil3114 supported in the kernel (with no add ons) and specifically in 2.6.8 (which is what debian decided to use for sarge release)? There is lots of hardware out there that would work better with 2.6.11 than with 2.6.8, but then again there is some stuff that apparently works less well (sometimes not at all) so sarge is sticking with 2.6.8. SATA is more than 2 yrs old, and this controller isn't too young at all anyway. Perhaps, but I am not even sure an open source driver exists for it yet, but then again I haven't paid much attension to that. My board (about 15 months old) has a Sil3112A which just worked when I installed back then. It doesn't do raid or any other crap like that, which to me makes the 3112 a perfectly good controller. I don't use Debian (nor any other linux distro) because of it's limitation on that simple thing, that it won't support my fixed-33MHz-PCI-Bus-integrated-Silicon Image 3114 controller. Buy linux supported hardware. That's what I do. I check for support before I buy rather than wine about unsupported hardware after I buy (which is usually caused by the maker of that hardware not releasing specs in a timely manner). Please, guys, let somebody know that the driver's already out, it only has to be integrated into the debian installer (and it's modules) in order to be able to install it onto my SATA HDD - for example, the network install iso-s I am not aware of debian having EVER included drivers in the install that were not part of the kernel from upstream for that version. They do however allow you to load additional drivers during the install so all you need to do is get the sil3114 driver built against the kernel headers of the kernel used on the install and you can load it using a floppy and use it. If it helps, here I found a link to this controller's linux drivers - decide, which is easier to modify it to Debian taste, I think it wouldn't take much time for a Pro, right ??? Check out the drivers section: http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=28 Where is the source driver there? A SuSE or RHEL driver is no good to anyone. (One another writing, easy to understand, something else, but it may be a good starting point, too: http://unclean.org/howto/sii3114_linux.html ). I'm also likely to test such a finished Debian Installer iso. If it works, than fine, good job. Dear Debian Developers - It would be a REALLY huge relief for A64 users, since the best A64 chipsets come with this controller.. and even I wouldn't have to suffer under 1) + 2) + 3) (see above). Don't ask me to build my own Debian Installer on a Windows system, nor to try it on another Linux machine - I'm not a pro, a beginner, I actually good in iptables and networking, but kernel hacking .. nope.. :/ But I test the image, if somebody helps me make it sil3114 compatible. ;) Well you will have to hope someone makes an unofficial installer with a different kernel, similar to many Dell users in the past. It is pretty much certain that driver will not be included, and for that matter probably can't be included (it certainly doesn't appear to
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Tudiatya wrote: Okay, I went from the installer to Execute a shell, but in the shell, lspci was not recognized as a command, so this won't take me further. :( (I don't have Linux, WinXP only ! Would it help you if I let a Suse Live CD run and lspci from there?) Yes, that would be great. It might also be possible to get PCI IDs from within Windows XP, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that. BTW, are you sure that it's a SiI 3114 controller that you have? What interesting is, that there's a module called siimage in the installer's list, but I think that's for another type of silicon image controller. Correct. It's for the SiI 680 ATA133 controller (I have one of these in a machine at home). I believe that the autodetection method that Debian uses for IDE controllers is load all the drivers and see which ones work, so that might be why you see that one there :-) Would it perhaps help, if the installer would include sata_sil in it's list of selectable modules ? The installer does include the sata_sil module (it's in the same sata-modules package that the sata_nv module is), it's just a matter of convincing it that it's the right module for your hardware. A quick look at the source code shows that the device IDs that sata_sil recognises should be the same as the list that Debian uses for working out which module to load, so it's quite likely that even if you did convince the installer to load sata_sil, it wouldn't pick up your controller. Out of curiosity, have you tried a Debian i386 install CD to see if that picks up your SATA controller? Cheers, Cameron. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Hi Tudiatya, The MSI K8N Neo2, if that's the board you have, should be using the nforce3 chipset, which has an nforce3 sata raid and a silicon image 3512 sata raid. If that's correct, I'd try this: 1. Undo the overclocking to get the installation done 2. If the sata raid still isn't automatically detected, is it possible to go into the shell and issue 'modprobe sata_sil'? That is the module you need for the sii3512 3. I don't recall now, but it's possible that the sata_nv has problems in 2.6.8. If that's the case, I would install Debian on a sata_sil drive, and then upgrade the kernel 4. To use the nforce3 NIC, you'll need a more recent kernel in any case -- I recommend vanilla 2.6.12-rc2 from kernel.org, but kernel-source-2.6.11 is available from Debian and may work fine. The NIC needs the forcedeth driver. Note that it doesn't show up in lspci, but it works fine. 5. If you have a second Marvell Yukos NIC, it may still need some firmware not included in Debian (not free); a working driver is available in the vanilla kernel (sk98lin) Running a live CD and getting a lspci, lsmod, and dmesg output is always worth doing, even before asking for help! Dave Tudiatya wrote: Okay, I went from the installer to Execute a shell, but in the shell, lspci was not recognized as a command, so this won't take me further. :( (I don't have Linux, WinXP only ! Would it help you if I let a Suse Live CD run and lspci from there?) What interesting is, that there's a module called siimage in the installer's list, but I think that's for another type of silicon image controller. Would it perhaps help, if the installer would include sata_sil in it's list of selectable modules ? One another thing: people talk about that in lots of SATA topics that we have to set the compatibility mode in the BIOS so the installer sees the HDD - then recompile kernel etc with sata_nv and finally BIOS back to normal. I don't understand this, why to install a linux that hard way, on the other hand this procedure was for the sata_nv but probably would also work for sata_sil.. but anyway, why ??? This stupid WinXP installs onto both controllers without any word .. I don't have spare PATA HDD to cheat the whole thing out and MSI boards doesn't have compatibility mode regarding SATA controllers either - so it means, my BIOS reports on the Energy Star pre-boot screen the following: Primary Master - None Primary Slave - CDROM (actually name differs) Secondary Master - None Secondary Slave - None Third Master - None Fourth Master - None Fifth Master - My SATA Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (160G) Sixth Master - None That's it. Third Fourth are sata_nv and of course unused because of the NOT-fixed 33MHz clock, Fifth Sixth are sata_sil whici I use right now. If I disable Third Fourth in the BIOS, Fifth and Sixth won't appear as Third and Fourth, for PATA IDE Secondary Master controller Disable it's the same. On my Abit IC7 Intel chipset I had that Compatibility mode where if a controller was disabled, higher numbered channels took it's number, but now that's not the way to handle it. But anyway, if linux does have sata_sil already, we just need to put it into the menu of the debian installer as a loadable module, or am I wrong ? :( Sry for being so long ... - Original Message - From: Cameron Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-amd64@lists.debian.org Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:53 PM Subject: Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Tudiatya wrote: No, I didn't try sata_sil .. I don't know, how. :) The Debian Installer modules list (which modules to load) doesn't contain sata_sil, only sata_nv. :( If the debian-installer doesn't support your SATA device, then the standard procedure would be to send the output of lspci and lspci -n to the debian-boot mailing list, asking for support. As a workaround to make your machine install I would suggest to manually load the sata_sil module at installation time. Boot in expert mode, and try to modprobe sata_sil on another console (Alt-F2) before entering the partitioning menu. Good luck Harri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Ah.. I'm givin' up :( Look, some web pages say, my Neo2 Platinum uses 3114, you say it uses 3512. I'm confused. But anyway, it uses sata_sil, in that we agree at least, so forget the numbers.. they don't matter.. sata_sil will be our starting-out point. I don't get the point oif overclocking, so I see no great loss there. But I get it. Much more responsive system, more than 50fps boost in games, especially the processor-consuming Counter-Strike .. if my CPU support higher speeds, I won't let it go by default. 3. I don't recall now, but it's possible that the sata_nv has problems in 2.6.8. If that's the case, I would install Debian on a sata_sil drive, and then upgrade the kernel That's what the whole topic is about - installing Debian on a sata_sil drive. I don't want anything else. I just want the installer to see my hdd when it's connected to the sata_sil ports - that's it ! Easy, right ? No, it doesn't seem to be easy. :( I don't get words on that .. 4. To use the nforce3 NIC, you'll need a more recent kernel in any case -- I recommend vanilla 2.6.12-rc2 from kernel.org, but kernel-source-2.6.11 is available from Debian and may work fine. The NIC needs the forcedeth driver. Note that it doesn't show up in lspci, but it works fine. Nothing's wrong with the nForce3 NIC, where did you got that ??? Forcedeth works, NIC detected, ip got through DHCP - no problems at all.. forget the NIC please, I'm still trying to focus on sata_sil .. :( . If you have a second Marvell Yukos NIC, it may still need some firmware not included in Debian (not free); a working driver is available in the vanilla kernel (sk98lin) The same. I disabled it anyway in the BIOS. Running a live CD and getting a lspci, lsmod, and dmesg output is always worth doing, even before asking for help! Alright, I'm going to download the SuSe Live CD and we'll see. If the debian-installer doesn't support your SATA device, then the standard procedure would be to send the output of lspci and lspci -n to the debian-boot mailing list, asking for support. As a workaround to make your machine install I would suggest to manually load the sata_sil module at installation time. Boot in expert mode, and try to modprobe sata_sil on another console (Alt-F2) before entering the partitioning menu. Did it. Nothing. :((( Okay, I'll be back in a few minutes.. I'm doing the lspci thing.. *** Grrr.. *** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Tudiatya wrote: if my CPU support higher speeds, I won't let it go by default. I wasn't arguing against overclocking, just turn it off for the sake of getting an installation going. You'll be loosing sympathy fast if you insist on creating unnecessary installation problems. Once you have your system installed you can solve this secondary issue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA Silicon Image 3114 support for A64 images ?
Amazing !!! Knoppix found my HDD without any questions and mapped my ntfs partitions as read only into /mnt/sda1...10 .. GREAT ! Kernel is 2.6.11 (newest Knoppix live CD, just got it from the website an hour ago or so..) Alright, here's what you wanted. :) LSPCI : :00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e1 (rev a1) :00:01.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e0 (rev a2) :00:01.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e4 (rev a1) :00:02.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e7 (rev a1) :00:02.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e7 (rev a1) :00:02.2 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e8 (rev a2) :00:05.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00df (rev a2) :00:08.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e5 (rev a2) :00:09.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00ee (rev a2) :00:0a.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e3 (rev a2) :00:0b.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00e2 (rev a2) :00:0e.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 00ed (rev a2) :00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 NorthBridge :00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 NorthBridge :00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 NorthBridge :00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 NorthBridge :01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 4a50 :01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 4a70 :02:07.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905C-TX/TX-M [Tornado] (rev 78) :02:08.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 04) :02:08.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy MIDI/Game port (rev 04) :02:08.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 04) :02:09.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics F-1156IV WinModem (V90, 56KFlex) (rev 01) LSPCI -n : :00:00.0 0600: 10de:00e1 (rev a1) :00:01.0 0601: 10de:00e0 (rev a2) :00:01.1 0c05: 10de:00e4 (rev a1) :00:02.0 0c03: 10de:00e7 (rev a1) :00:02.1 0c03: 10de:00e7 (rev a1) :00:02.2 0c03: 10de:00e8 (rev a2) :00:05.0 0680: 10de:00df (rev a2) :00:08.0 0101: 10de:00e5 (rev a2) :00:09.0 0101: 10de:00ee (rev a2) :00:0a.0 0101: 10de:00e3 (rev a2) :00:0b.0 0604: 10de:00e2 (rev a2) :00:0e.0 0604: 10de:00ed (rev a2) :00:18.0 0600: 1022:1100 :00:18.1 0600: 1022:1101 :00:18.2 0600: 1022:1102 :00:18.3 0600: 1022:1103 :01:00.0 0300: 1002:4a50 :01:00.1 0380: 1002:4a70 :02:07.0 0200: 10b7:9200 (rev 78) :02:08.0 0401: 1102:0004 (rev 04) :02:08.1 0980: 1102:7003 (rev 04) :02:08.2 0c00: 1102:4001 (rev 04) :02:09.0 0780: 11c1:044a (rev 01) Good night ! ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
