RE: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-14 Thread mark

 On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:52:56PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
  The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28? 
   Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?
 
 Well given the kernel isn't in unstable, it didn't seem like a problem
 in need of a fix yet.  Now given I was thinking of going to 2.6.27 or 28
 to try and fix my webcam and I want my nvidia card to stay working, it
 may just have become an issue for me so I guess I should go work on the
 next version and see when Randall wants to do something with it.
 
  What's the deal, anyway?  The nVidia blob installer tries to make like 
  it can't find the kernel headers, nor the compiled output.
 
 I guess we could consider packaging up the 180.x driver in experimental
 or something.  It is a beta driver though and generally those have not
 been packaged up.  Usually we just patch the driver to work with newer
 kernels when needed.


Sorry, I tend to forget that it is a big deal to do that stuff.  

It's just as well you haven't packaged the beta.  NVidia I think already
has some later versions.  My guess is that they will get around to
fixing it once and for all for both the newer kernels.  

Thanks for the reply; I know you guys are busy and I tend to be a pain
in the anatomy.  (Sorry I am just now saying thank you, I have been out
of pocket for a while.  On the upside, I now have a new GigaByte Core i7
machine to try Debian on.  I may try a Lenny install on it, assuming I
can get a Lenny AMD64 DVD in a timely fashion.  Wish me luck...)

Mark Allums







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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-14 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 03:20:46AM -0700, m...@allums.com wrote:
 Sorry, I tend to forget that it is a big deal to do that stuff.  

It's not that bad really.  Well except when the kernel interface changes
and breaks things and you have to track down patches and such.

 It's just as well you haven't packaged the beta.  NVidia I think already
 has some later versions.  My guess is that they will get around to
 fixing it once and for all for both the newer kernels.  

Randall did package 180.22, and I am using it at home with 2.6.27 (which
made my webcam work that 2.6.26 didn't work with).  SO far no problems.
It is in experimental or maybe it was in Randall's build area.  I
forget.

 Thanks for the reply; I know you guys are busy and I tend to be a pain
 in the anatomy.  (Sorry I am just now saying thank you, I have been out
 of pocket for a while.  On the upside, I now have a new GigaByte Core i7
 machine to try Debian on.  I may try a Lenny install on it, assuming I
 can get a Lenny AMD64 DVD in a timely fashion.  Wish me luck...)

I always use the business card installer, and have it download whatever
packages I ask for over the net.  Much more efficient than full DVD
images unless you don't have an internet connection at the machine.

-- 
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RE: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-07 Thread mark


  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: Where is the kernel?
 From: Sridhar M.A. m...@mylug.org
 Date: Tue, January 06, 2009 5:54 am
 To: debian-amd64@lists.debian.org
 
 
 On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:52:56PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 
  The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28?  
   Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?
 
 Not sure about amd64, but there is a patch available for Nvidia 177.80
 which makes it compile under x86 and 2.6.28. FWIW, here is uname from my
 machine :
 
 Linux brahman 2.6.28-mas #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Dec 25 12:15:31 IST 2008
 i686 GNU/Linux
 
 Regards,
 
 -- 
 Sridhar M.A. GPG KeyID : F6A35935


Thanks!  I will look into it immediately.

MArk Allums




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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread A J Stiles
On Tuesday 06 Jan 2009, Robert Isaac wrote:
 That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
 so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
 for a desktop.

But it would certainly be a good argument to use in a letter to your elected 
representative, requesting a new law which would oblige hardware 
manufacturers to disclose driver Source Code.

In any case, the temporary  (until legislation forced their availability)  
lack of 3D accelerated video card drivers would be only a minor hardship.  A 
cause worth fighting for is worth suffering for -- or have we forgotten that 
already?

-- 
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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Sridhar M.A.
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:52:56PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:

 The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28?  
  Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?

Not sure about amd64, but there is a patch available for Nvidia 177.80
which makes it compile under x86 and 2.6.28. FWIW, here is uname from my
machine :

Linux brahman 2.6.28-mas #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Dec 25 12:15:31 IST 2008
i686 GNU/Linux

Regards,

-- 
Sridhar M.A. GPG KeyID : F6A35935
  Fingerprint: D172 22C4 7CDC D9CD 62B5  55C1 2A69 D5D8 F6A3 5935

I can't understand it.  I can't even understand the people who can
understand it.
-- Queen Juliana of the Netherlands.


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:07:28PM -0500, Robert Isaac wrote:
 That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
 so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
 for a desktop.

Well true, that it would.  I guess we would have to fix that if we did
go to 2.6.27.  Not as if we didn't have to fix it for 2.6.26 when that
came in.  The latest nvidia update got rid of the sse support is
required problem so it would be nice for some older PCs to go to that
one anyhow, although I think any machine without sse is running an old
enough card that the 9x.xx driver series is fine, so it hasn't been a
huge problem, just slightly annoying.

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:52:56PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28? 
  Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?

Well given the kernel isn't in unstable, it didn't seem like a problem
in need of a fix yet.  Now given I was thinking of going to 2.6.27 or 28
to try and fix my webcam and I want my nvidia card to stay working, it
may just have become an issue for me so I guess I should go work on the
next version and see when Randall wants to do something with it.

 What's the deal, anyway?  The nVidia blob installer tries to make like 
 it can't find the kernel headers, nor the compiled output.

I guess we could consider packaging up the 180.x driver in experimental
or something.  It is a beta driver though and generally those have not
been packaged up.  Usually we just patch the driver to work with newer
kernels when needed.

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Robert Isaac
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:06 AM, A J Stiles de...@earthshod.co.uk wrote:
 On Tuesday 06 Jan 2009, Robert Isaac wrote:
 That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
 so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
 for a desktop.

 But it would certainly be a good argument to use in a letter to your elected
 representative, requesting a new law which would oblige hardware
 manufacturers to disclose driver Source Code.

Yes it would, but it would probably do little good considering the
current views of my elected representation towards intellectual
property.  Both of my Senators and my Representative in the US House
of Representatives are staunch supporters of everything that makes
life in the digital realm anti-social.  From the draconian DMCA to
Orphan Works, they support it.


 In any case, the temporary  (until legislation forced their availability)
 lack of 3D accelerated video card drivers would be only a minor hardship.  A
 cause worth fighting for is worth suffering for -- or have we forgotten that
 already?

Unfortunately, I can't afford to be without a 3D desktop so that is
not an option for me.


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Robert Isaac

 That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,

 I'm sorry, but that's not the case: Debian is *only* main, non-free is
 a commodity place we provide for our users, it's not that something
 broked in non-free would stop the release to happen.

That is good to say, but in practice is not really the case,
especially with wireless firmware in non-free :)


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-06 Thread Ron Johnson

On 01/06/09 17:14, Robert Isaac wrote:
[snip]


Unfortunately, I can't afford to be without a 3D desktop so that is
not an option for me.


I'm sure you have a valid reason, but it does seem rather odd that 
you can't live without what many consider as eye candy.


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Ivan Marin
2009/1/5 A J Stiles de...@earthshod.co.uk:
 On Monday 05 Jan 2009, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
 Dear maintainers,

 just some questions

 What happened to the kernel higher than 2.6.26 ?
 Is the kernel on hold, due toe the upcoming release of Lenny?
 Meanwhile the latest stable kernel-version is 2.6.28 (and 2.6.29 is at
 work).

 Where is 2.6.27 and 2.6.28 in debian? I only found 2.6.26 as the latest
 release. Did I miss something?

 If you really want an up-to-the-minute kernel, what's wrong with using
 kernel-package to create your own deb packages from kernel.org sources?

The main problem, I suppose, is to get the debian kernel patches. Is
there a easy way to do a diff between the changes in the kernel.org
sources and the debian patched sources?


 --
 AJS
 delta echo bravo six four at earthshod dot co dot uk


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Ron Johnson

On 01/05/09 09:27, Lennart Sorensen wrote:


[snip] experimental [snip] and 2.6.28 is there now.


Yay!  Thanks, Kernel Team.

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:16:14AM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 It's not there, and won't be until after Lenny's release.  Unless the 
 maintainers relent and put 2.6.27 into Experimental.

Well 2.6.27 was in the kernel experimental area for a while, and 2.6.28
is there now.

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Jochen Schulz
Hans-J. Ullrich:
 
 Dear maintainers,

This list is for Debian users of AMD64. You cannot expect maintainers to
read it.

 What happened to the kernel higher than 2.6.26 ?
 Is the kernel on hold, due toe the upcoming release of Lenny?

Yes.

 Meanwhile the latest stable kernel-version is 2.6.28 (and 2.6.29 is at work).

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel

J.
-- 
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread John Hasler
Ivan Marin writes:
 The main problem, I suppose, is to get the debian kernel patches. Is
 there a easy way to do a diff between the changes in the kernel.org
 sources and the debian patched sources?

A Debian source package consists essentially of the pristine upstream
source plus a diff containing the Debian changes.  But why do you need
them?
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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Ivan Marin
2009/1/5 John Hasler jhas...@debian.org:
 Ivan Marin writes:
 The main problem, I suppose, is to get the debian kernel patches. Is
 there a easy way to do a diff between the changes in the kernel.org
 sources and the debian patched sources?

 A Debian source package consists essentially of the pristine upstream
 source plus a diff containing the Debian changes.  But why do you need
 them?
 --

I've been always curious about what are the changes that the Debian
kernel team does to the pristine kernel, if any, and the differences
between the pristine and the Debian .config. I will look at the
linux-source package.

Thanks!

Ivan


 John Hasler


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Sandro Tosi
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 20:29, Ivan Marin ispma...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/1/5 John Hasler jhas...@debian.org:
 Ivan Marin writes:
 The main problem, I suppose, is to get the debian kernel patches. Is
 there a easy way to do a diff between the changes in the kernel.org
 sources and the debian patched sources?

 A Debian source package consists essentially of the pristine upstream
 source plus a diff containing the Debian changes.  But why do you need
 them?
 --

 I've been always curious about what are the changes that the Debian
 kernel team does to the pristine kernel, if any, and the differences
 between the pristine and the Debian .config. I will look at the
 linux-source package.

You can look at the diff with zless kernel package.diff.gz . The
debian/changelog file should contain even some references for the
patch applied and why.

Regards,
-- 
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My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Mark Allums

Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:

Dear maintainers,

just some questions

What happened to the kernel higher than 2.6.26 ?
Is the kernel on hold, due toe the upcoming release of Lenny?
Meanwhile the latest stable kernel-version is 2.6.28 (and 2.6.29 is at work).

Where is 2.6.27 and 2.6.28 in debian? I only found 2.6.26 as the latest 
release. Did I miss something?


Cheers

Hans




It's not there, and won't be until after Lenny's release.  Unless the 
maintainers relent and put 2.6.27 into Experimental.


Mark Allums


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread John Hasler
Ivan Marin writes:
 I've been always curious about what are the changes that the Debian
 kernel team does to the pristine kernel, if any, and the differences
 between the pristine and the Debian .config.

  Description: Linux kernel source for version 2.6.25 with Debian patches
   This package provides source code for the Linux kernel version 2.6.25.
   This source closely tracks official Linux kernel releases.  Debian's
   modifications to that source consist of security fixes, bug fixes, and
   features that have already been (or we believe will be) accepted by the
   upstream maintainers.

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Ivan Marin
2009/1/5 John Hasler jhas...@debian.org:
 Ivan Marin writes:
 I've been always curious about what are the changes that the Debian
 kernel team does to the pristine kernel, if any, and the differences
 between the pristine and the Debian .config.

  Description: Linux kernel source for version 2.6.25 with Debian patches
   This package provides source code for the Linux kernel version 2.6.25.
   This source closely tracks official Linux kernel releases.  Debian's
   modifications to that source consist of security fixes, bug fixes, and
   features that have already been (or we believe will be) accepted by the
   upstream maintainers.

Thanks! I was wondering about how to find (and maybe apply myself some
of) each of the security fixes, bug fixes, and features to a pristine
kernel.


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Mark Allums

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:16:14AM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
It's not there, and won't be until after Lenny's release.  Unless the 
maintainers relent and put 2.6.27 into Experimental.


Well 2.6.27 was in the kernel experimental area for a while, and 2.6.28
is there now.



Yes.  Most users either aren't aware, forget about the existence of 
it, or don't want to mess with kernel experimental.  And most of the 
time, they'd be right.  The Lenny freeze is causing an exception to the 
usual rule.  I personally think both kernels should be is the main 
experimental section, or even in Sid.  But I am not a Debian Maintainer.


Mark Allums




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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Mark Allums

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:41:26AM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
Yes.  Most users either aren't aware, forget about the existence of 
it, or don't want to mess with kernel experimental.  And most of the 
time, they'd be right.  The Lenny freeze is causing an exception to the 
usual rule.  I personally think both kernels should be is the main 
experimental section, or even in Sid.  But I am not a Debian Maintainer.


Given the number of bug reports the kernel packaging team deals with, I
can understand why they might not want to make it too easy to get a hold
of experimental kernel builds.

Besides the more testing there is of the lenny kernel before release,
the better.



Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate the 
 thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the 
official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in 
the final distribution as an alternative.


Mark Allums


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Re: Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Hans-J. Ullrich
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:16:14AM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 It's not there, and won't be until after Lenny's release.  Unless the 
 maintainers relent and put 2.6.27 into Experimental.

Well 2.6.27 was in the kernel experimental area for a while, and 2.6.28
is there now.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Len, 
I tried

apt-get -d install linux-image -t experimental

but it showed only all versions of 2.6.26

How can I download (but NOT install) the latest kernel from experimental?

Regards

Hans



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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Masami Ichikawa

on 01/06/09 06:58, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:

apt-get -d install linux-image -t experimental

but it showed only all versions of 2.6.26

How can I download (but NOT install) the latest kernel from experimental?

According to Debian Wiki[1], you can get latest package from other repository.

[1]:http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:06:18PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate the 
  thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the 
 official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in 
 the final distribution as an alternative.

Well I certainly wouldn't object to 2.6.27 being the Lenny kernel, but I
have no say in that matter.

I have had some odd behaviour with 2.6.26 on a few machines that I can't
reproduce easily and hence haven't been able to file bug reports about.
2.6.25 seemed a lot better.  I haven't tried 27 or 28 yet.

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Re: Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Lennart Sorensen
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 10:58:40PM +0100, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
 I tried
 
 apt-get -d install linux-image -t experimental
 
 but it showed only all versions of 2.6.26
 
 How can I download (but NOT install) the latest kernel from experimental?

Not debian experimental.  The kernel experimental area.

deb http://kernel-archive.buildserver.net/debian-kernel/ trunk main
appears to work.

Or just point a web browser at
http://kernel-archive.buildserver.net/debian-kernel/dists/trunk/main/...

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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Robert Isaac
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen
lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:06:18PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate the
  thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the
 official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in
 the final distribution as an alternative.

 Well I certainly wouldn't object to 2.6.27 being the Lenny kernel, but I
 have no say in that matter.

That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
for a desktop.


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Sandro Tosi
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 02:07, Robert Isaac rjis...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen
 lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:06:18PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
 Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate the
  thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the
 official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in
 the final distribution as an alternative.

 Well I certainly wouldn't object to 2.6.27 being the Lenny kernel, but I
 have no say in that matter.

 That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,

I'm sorry, but that's not the case: Debian is *only* main, non-free is
a commodity place we provide for our users, it's not that something
broked in non-free would stop the release to happen.

 so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
 for a desktop.

That's surely a problem, not a blocking one.

What made the release team to decide to stay with .26 is that kernel
and security teams assured their support along all the lenny life,
that all other thing heavily coupled with the kernel (for example
xen, selinux, nfs, etc) have been tested and (almost) proved working
with that kernel version. Changing kernel now would be a big mistake.

Hope this clarify the situation.

Regards,
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Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Mark Allums

Robert Isaac wrote:

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen
lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:06:18PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:

Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate the
 thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the
official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in
the final distribution as an alternative.

Well I certainly wouldn't object to 2.6.27 being the Lenny kernel, but I
have no say in that matter.


That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
for a desktop.


The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28? 
 Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?


What's the deal, anyway?  The nVidia blob installer tries to make like 
it can't find the kernel headers, nor the compiled output.


Mark Allums


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Re: Where is the kernel?

2009-01-05 Thread Ron Johnson

On 01/05/09 19:52, Mark Allums wrote:

Robert Isaac wrote:

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen
lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:06:18PM -0600, Mark Allums wrote:
Exactly.  That's why 2.6.27 should be more mainstream.  To reiterate 
the

 thoughts of millions of right-thinking people, 2.6.27 should be the
official Lenny kernel.  Or at least be packaged alongside 2.6.26 in
the final distribution as an alternative.

Well I certainly wouldn't object to 2.6.27 being the Lenny kernel, but I
have no say in that matter.


That would break all three nvidia drivers currently within non-free,
so it is not necessarily a good idea for the people that rely on those
for a desktop.


The  you say!  Is this why I can't get X going under vanilla 2.6.28? 
 Any word on the ETA of the fixing of the breakage?


What's the deal, anyway?  The nVidia blob installer tries to make like 
it can't find the kernel headers, nor the compiled output.


What version?

(I just built a kernel from linux-source-2.6.28, but haven't booted 
it yet.  Still on 2.6.27 snap 12516.  Using binary 177.82, kernel 64 
bit with 32 bit userland.  Works like a charm...)


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market
rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America.


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