Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 05:12:46PM +0100, A J Stiles wrote: > I honestly don't see the need for ia32-apt-get. > > What's wrong with just, you know, compiling your software for a 64-bit > architecture in the first place? So why my I ask are you using debian and not something like gentoo, or I am guess you just download all the tar's/bz etc and build from there :) ia32-apt-get filled a niche solved a lot of problems for people for a lot of amd64 users. Yes it would be nice to have all the stuff we need work in 64 mode, but it doesn't yes it would me nice to multiarch working but it isn't > > The only conceivable reason why anyone might want to run software compiled > for > 32-bits on a 64-bit machine is that they didn't have the Source Code. And if > you don't have the Source Code -- which is your *only* guarantee that the > software isn't going to do nasty things -- you certainly should not be > running it in an unprotected environment. > > Closed-source software should only ever be run in a chroot, on a virtual > machine, or on a physically separate machine firewalled off from the rest of > the network. Anything else is just not safe. > -- "There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right." - George W. Bush 03/13/2002 Washington, DC signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 05:12:46PM +0100, A J Stiles wrote: > I honestly don't see the need for ia32-apt-get. > > What's wrong with just, you know, compiling your software for a 64-bit > architecture in the first place? > > The only conceivable reason why anyone might want to run software compiled > for > 32-bits on a 64-bit machine is that they didn't have the Source Code. And if > you don't have the Source Code -- which is your *only* guarantee that the > software isn't going to do nasty things -- you certainly should not be > running it in an unprotected environment. > > Closed-source software should only ever be run in a chroot, on a virtual > machine, or on a physically separate machine firewalled off from the rest of > the network. Anything else is just not safe. Of course most people live in reality and also some software isn't 64 bit compatible even with the sources. Also having sources doesn't mean you will read it all or that even if you do that you will understand it all. If it was that simple there wouldn't be security holes and bugs in the code. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
I honestly don't see the need for ia32-apt-get. What's wrong with just, you know, compiling your software for a 64-bit architecture in the first place? The only conceivable reason why anyone might want to run software compiled for 32-bits on a 64-bit machine is that they didn't have the Source Code. And if you don't have the Source Code -- which is your *only* guarantee that the software isn't going to do nasty things -- you certainly should not be running it in an unprotected environment. Closed-source software should only ever be run in a chroot, on a virtual machine, or on a physically separate machine firewalled off from the rest of the network. Anything else is just not safe. -- AJS delta echo bravo six four at earthshod dot co dot uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: David Witbrodt writes: I thought 'ia32-apt-get' was removed by accident, and you were merely waiting for a sponsor to get it added back. Was it actually removed intentionally? It appears that way. You can read about it on Bug#535645 and the debian-ctte ML. Having read bug report 535645, I find myself shaking my head and laughing: 1. I assumed -- since 'ia32-apt-get' and 'ia32-libs-tools' and been accepted in the first place -- that more communication had been happening between the relevant teams and maintainers from the beginning. Apparently not. 2. So, 'ia32-libs' gets orphaned because it is a time-consuming, wasteful stopgap measure; it's functionality is picked up by another approach (ia32-libs-tools), which has been in development for over a year with no serious damage to users' systems reported, but the moment a maintainer picks up 'ia32-libs', the 'ia32-libs-tools' package gets removed... also without discussion. If users have already begun to rely on any of the thousands of 32-bit libraries made available that are not available via 'ia32-libs', the users be damned. What we have here, my dears, is a failure to communicate! If this level of communication is typical for Debian as a project as a whole, then I can't believe the thing even runs at all. And here I am trying to bust my buns (in my free time) to raise my skill level high enough to try the New Maintainer process. *shakes head* It all reminds me of the film "The Bridge on the River Kwai": Allied prisoners suffering from low morale are ordered to build a bridge; they successfully improve their morale... by building a bridge for the enemy; other allies are sent in to blow the bridge up; in the end, the bridge is blown up, the film's stars are all killed, and the doctor is left on the hillside observing the carnage, saying "Madness... madness!" I know how that doctor felt Dave W. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
David Witbrodt writes: > Goswin von Brederlow wrote: >> Jaime Ochoa Malagón writes: >> >>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Goswin von Brederlow >>> wrote: "Hans-J. Ullrich" writes: > I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get > should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will > show > the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, > even > Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and > ia32-apt- > get will disappear. The future will show us. ia32-apt-get will disapear and was always ment to disapear with multiarch. I also always intended to make that transition as smooth as possible. The multiarch people fear that ia32-apt-get might conflict with multiarch, and currently they are right. The existing packages would conflicht with future multiarch packages. But to resolve that some of the multiarch features have to be added to dpkg first and then ia32-apt-get can be updated to use those features for a smooth upgrade. So from my side there is a solid plan in place how to do a smooth upgrade to multiarch. No blocks in sight. >>> there are good news :-) >> >> If ftp-master lets me. > > I thought 'ia32-apt-get' was removed by accident, and you were merely > waiting for a sponsor to get it added back. Was it actually removed > intentionally? > > > Dave W. It appears that way. You can read about it on Bug#535645 and the debian-ctte ML. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Jaime Ochoa Malagón writes: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: "Hans-J. Ullrich" writes: I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will show the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, even Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and ia32-apt- get will disappear. The future will show us. ia32-apt-get will disapear and was always ment to disapear with multiarch. I also always intended to make that transition as smooth as possible. The multiarch people fear that ia32-apt-get might conflict with multiarch, and currently they are right. The existing packages would conflicht with future multiarch packages. But to resolve that some of the multiarch features have to be added to dpkg first and then ia32-apt-get can be updated to use those features for a smooth upgrade. So from my side there is a solid plan in place how to do a smooth upgrade to multiarch. No blocks in sight. there are good news :-) If ftp-master lets me. I thought 'ia32-apt-get' was removed by accident, and you were merely waiting for a sponsor to get it added back. Was it actually removed intentionally? Dave W. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
Jaime Ochoa Malagón writes: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Goswin von Brederlow > wrote: >> >> "Hans-J. Ullrich" writes: >> >> >> So I guess the question is how to we organise to get it back into the >> >> repro's - the debian way ? >> > >> > I think, if people wish for it, then ftp-master should be asked to put it >> > back >> > again. However, I underrstand, it might cause trouble (as other packages >> > might >> > cause, too!), but this is the kind of "experimental"! or "unstable", just >> > as >> > its name is expressing. >> >> Actuaky the Debian CTTE would be better as I asked them to review the >> matter. I probably wouldn't hurt to let them know you miss >> ia32-apt-get. :) > > we miss ia32-apt-get The Debian CTTE reads on debian-c...@lists.debian.org. :) >> > I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get >> > should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will show >> > the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, even >> > Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and >> > ia32-apt- >> > get will disappear. The future will show us. >> >> ia32-apt-get will disapear and was always ment to disapear with >> multiarch. I also always intended to make that transition as smooth as >> possible. The multiarch people fear that ia32-apt-get might conflict >> with multiarch, and currently they are right. The existing packages >> would conflicht with future multiarch packages. But to resolve that >> some of the multiarch features have to be added to dpkg first and then >> ia32-apt-get can be updated to use those features for a smooth >> upgrade. So from my side there is a solid plan in place how to do a >> smooth upgrade to multiarch. No blocks in sight. > > there are good news :-) If ftp-master lets me. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > "Hans-J. Ullrich" writes: > > >> So I guess the question is how to we organise to get it back into the > >> repro's - the debian way ? > > > > I think, if people wish for it, then ftp-master should be asked to put it > > back > > again. However, I underrstand, it might cause trouble (as other packages > > might > > cause, too!), but this is the kind of "experimental"! or "unstable", just as > > its name is expressing. > > Actuaky the Debian CTTE would be better as I asked them to review the > matter. I probably wouldn't hurt to let them know you miss > ia32-apt-get. :) we miss ia32-apt-get > > > I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get > > should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will show > > the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, even > > Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and ia32-apt- > > get will disappear. The future will show us. > > ia32-apt-get will disapear and was always ment to disapear with > multiarch. I also always intended to make that transition as smooth as > possible. The multiarch people fear that ia32-apt-get might conflict > with multiarch, and currently they are right. The existing packages > would conflicht with future multiarch packages. But to resolve that > some of the multiarch features have to be added to dpkg first and then > ia32-apt-get can be updated to use those features for a smooth > upgrade. So from my side there is a solid plan in place how to do a > smooth upgrade to multiarch. No blocks in sight. there are good news :-) > > > As far as i understood the policies of debian, there are rules to get a > > package into the official repository. If ia32-apt-get does not break those > > rules, I see no reason, why to put this software into the repository. All > > software is free, and every software should be handled even. True > > democracie > > > > Well, I suggest, to handle ia32-apt-get just as other software in debian. > > > > Another for way testing might be, to use an own repository, besides the > > debian > > official ones. IMO this is the worse way, because it might be worse to > > maintain > > (dependencies and so on). > > > > These are my thoughts about it, feel free to comment it. > > > > Cheers > > > > Hans > > > > P.S. As you may have remarked: I hate everything, which is deminuishing > > freedom! Sorry for that! > > MfG > Goswin > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > -- Perhaps the depth of love can be calibrated by the number of different selves that are actively involved in a given relationship. Carl Sagan (Contact) Jaime Ochoa Malagón Arquitecto de Soluciones Cel: +52 (55) 1021 0774 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
"Hans-J. Ullrich" writes: >> So I guess the question is how to we organise to get it back into the >> repro's - the debian way ? > > I think, if people wish for it, then ftp-master should be asked to put it > back > again. However, I underrstand, it might cause trouble (as other packages > might > cause, too!), but this is the kind of "experimental"! or "unstable", just as > its name is expressing. Actuaky the Debian CTTE would be better as I asked them to review the matter. I probably wouldn't hurt to let them know you miss ia32-apt-get. :) > I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get > should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will show > the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, even > Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and ia32-apt- > get will disappear. The future will show us. ia32-apt-get will disapear and was always ment to disapear with multiarch. I also always intended to make that transition as smooth as possible. The multiarch people fear that ia32-apt-get might conflict with multiarch, and currently they are right. The existing packages would conflicht with future multiarch packages. But to resolve that some of the multiarch features have to be added to dpkg first and then ia32-apt-get can be updated to use those features for a smooth upgrade. So from my side there is a solid plan in place how to do a smooth upgrade to multiarch. No blocks in sight. > As far as i understood the policies of debian, there are rules to get a > package into the official repository. If ia32-apt-get does not break those > rules, I see no reason, why to put this software into the repository. All > software is free, and every software should be handled even. True > democracie > > Well, I suggest, to handle ia32-apt-get just as other software in debian. > > Another for way testing might be, to use an own repository, besides the > debian > official ones. IMO this is the worse way, because it might be worse to > maintain > (dependencies and so on). > > These are my thoughts about it, feel free to comment it. > > Cheers > > Hans > > P.S. As you may have remarked: I hate everything, which is deminuishing > freedom! Sorry for that! MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
> So I guess the question is how to we organise to get it back into the > repro's - the debian way ? I think, if people wish for it, then ftp-master should be asked to put it back again. However, I underrstand, it might cause trouble (as other packages might cause, too!), but this is the kind of "experimental"! or "unstable", just as its name is expressing. I understand well, there are efforts to chose other ways, so ia32-apt-get should not block the other ways. Well, which one will win at last will show the future. IMO ia32-apt-get is a good way at the moment, and I think, even Goswin would not mourne if some day a better way will be found and ia32-apt- get will disappear. The future will show us. As far as i understood the policies of debian, there are rules to get a package into the official repository. If ia32-apt-get does not break those rules, I see no reason, why to put this software into the repository. All software is free, and every software should be handled even. True democracie Well, I suggest, to handle ia32-apt-get just as other software in debian. Another for way testing might be, to use an own repository, besides the debian official ones. IMO this is the worse way, because it might be worse to maintain (dependencies and so on). These are my thoughts about it, feel free to comment it. Cheers Hans P.S. As you may have remarked: I hate everything, which is deminuishing freedom! Sorry for that! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 06:44:54PM -0400, Dave Witbrodt wrote: > Alex Samad wrote: > >On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 03:15:23AM -0700, Norval Watson wrote: > >>>So, please put it back, at least to experimental. > >>> > >>>Have a nice weekend > >>> > >>>Hans-J. Ullrich > >>> > >>I agree, I vote for ia32-apt-get > >>Norv > > > >I agree to > > Add me to the list of supporters! Whatever difficulties it was > having, it seemed clearly superior to the massive ia32-libs hack. > Once it is working, it should be integrated with the standard APT > functionality. So I guess the question is how to we organise to get it back into the repro's - the debian way ? > I'd also like to thank Goswin for all of the effort he has put > into packaging it and improving it. > > > Dave W. > > -- "Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican." - George W. Bush 04/21/2001 declining to take reporters' questions during a photo op with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
Alex Samad wrote: On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 03:15:23AM -0700, Norval Watson wrote: So, please put it back, at least to experimental. Have a nice weekend Hans-J. Ullrich I agree, I vote for ia32-apt-get Norv I agree to Add me to the list of supporters! Whatever difficulties it was having, it seemed clearly superior to the massive ia32-libs hack. Once it is working, it should be integrated with the standard APT functionality. I'd also like to thank Goswin for all of the effort he has put into packaging it and improving it. Dave W. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 03:15:23AM -0700, Norval Watson wrote: > > [snip] > > How can I help other people? I cannot help them to install needed packages > > (like nvidia-glx-ia32) as they cannot installed. I cannot correct this, by > > telling him: "Install ia32-apt-get" because ftp-master removed > > ia32-apt-get! > > Bad situation, don't you agree? > > > > So, please put it back, at least to experimental. > > > > > > Have a nice weekend > > > > Hans-J. Ullrich > > > > > I agree, I vote for ia32-apt-get > Norv I agree to signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Oliver M. Rother wrote: > On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 12:05 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote: > >> IMO the complete removing of the package ia32-apt-get by the ftp-master is >> not >> such good style. >> >> Doing so is breaking the system, as some applications need ia32-somewhat >> packages. For example , I found no way, to install nvidia-glx-ia32, as it >> depends on ia32-libx11-6 and ia32-libxext6. >> >> Same problem is for googleearth, and I do not know, which packages are also >> involved. > > acroread from debian-multimedia, for example. I have installed acroread today. No problem, ( There is now ia32-libs-xulrunner from debian-multimedia ) Regards, Bin > > Olli > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 12:05 +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote: > IMO the complete removing of the package ia32-apt-get by the ftp-master is > not > such good style. > > Doing so is breaking the system, as some applications need ia32-somewhat > packages. For example , I found no way, to install nvidia-glx-ia32, as it > depends on ia32-libx11-6 and ia32-libxext6. > > Same problem is for googleearth, and I do not know, which packages are also > involved. acroread from debian-multimedia, for example. Olli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors
- Original Message > From: Hans-J. Ullrich > To: debian-amd64@lists.debian.org > Sent: Friday, 14 August, 2009 8:05:09 PM > Subject: ia32-apt-get and dependencies errors > > Dear maintainers, > > IMO the complete removing of the package ia32-apt-get by the ftp-master is > not > such good style. > > Doing so is breaking the system, as some applications need ia32-somewhat > packages. For example , I found no way, to install nvidia-glx-ia32, as it > depends on ia32-libx11-6 and ia32-libxext6. > > Same problem is for googleearth, and I do not know, which packages are also > involved. > > If you think, you should remove ia32-apt-get, so please make sure, it does > not > break the system! I am a little bit concerned, why ftp-master decided to > remove it, even if this package might be in unstable state, it should be at > least in experimental, so that people can choose to use it or not. > > I tested ia32-apt-get now for a long time, it is working very well, no > problems are found. But going back to ia32-libs and ia32-libs-gtk would break > the system now. > > How can I help other people? I cannot help them to install needed packages > (like nvidia-glx-ia32) as they cannot installed. I cannot correct this, by > telling him: "Install ia32-apt-get" because ftp-master removed ia32-apt-get! > Bad situation, don't you agree? > > So, please put it back, at least to experimental. > > > Have a nice weekend > > Hans-J. Ullrich > > I agree, I vote for ia32-apt-get Norv __ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
