Re: Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
Sorry it took so long, but I've finally made that change. It will go into the next release of Debian (lenny). oldsys-preseed (2.0) unstable; urgency=low . * Use a static IP address when the configuration says so, even when this is the default value used by the original firmware. In the past, oldsys-preseed would do DHCP in the assumption that the user never configured the static IP address and might not want to have that setting. However, Mike (mwester) convinced me with his argument in http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2008/01/msg00050.html that doing DHCP when the configuration clearly says to use a static IP is a bad idea. * Increase the version number to 2.0 because of this change in behaviour. This change affects Linksys NSLU2 and Thecus N2100. * Mike (mwester) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-01-08 12:49]: > So, basically even though the user has specified a static IP, the unit > DHCP's anyway. Considering that a well-behaved DHCP server will probe the > active addresses, it's *guaranteed* that not even by accident will the NSLU2 > get the static IP that the user set. Hence the device is "lost on the > ether". > > Debugging this situation is difficult for the novice. First, the user set a > static IP -- there's no reason for them to go check their router to see if > it issued a DHCP IP in the first place; they're not expecting that to > happen. Secondly, many routers don't even provide a means to check what > DHCP has done, so the user can't discover the IP even if a wiki or document > told them to do so (I believe that Linksys, one of the most common routers > in this area, is one such vendor). > > Personally, I find this behavior of the installer to be wrong, in the same > way that I would be angry if my automobile took it upon itself to turn the > steering wheel for me, because I happened to leave the turn-signal activated > for too long. But I'm not a Debian user (I just happen to frequent the > #nslu2-general IRC channel where this issue has become so commonly asked). > > IMO, if this behavior is retained, it needs a gigantic red box (flashing, > preferably) on the web pages describing the installation process. Many of > the users I encounter on that IRC channel are truely novices, so the text > also should not just limit itself to outlining the behavior, but the > implications of it as well (that the unit will DHCP and that many users may > not have routers that offer the ability to see what the DHCP IP might have > been, resulting in an NLSU2 on the network that is well and truely lost). > And, no, running nmap to find it is not an option for most of these users! > > Regards, > Mike (mwester) > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
A simple workaround for people having problem with this. Wait to plug-in the network cable until the slug finished booting. It will fail to get a dhcp address and will fallback to static ip. Greets On Jan 8, 2008 7:49 PM, Mike (mwester) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, basically even though the user has specified a static IP, the unit > DHCP's anyway. Considering that a well-behaved DHCP server will probe the > active addresses, it's *guaranteed* that not even by accident will the NSLU2 > get the static IP that the user set. Hence the device is "lost on the > ether". > > Debugging this situation is difficult for the novice. First, the user set a > static IP -- there's no reason for them to go check their router to see if > it issued a DHCP IP in the first place; they're not expecting that to > happen. Secondly, many routers don't even provide a means to check what > DHCP has done, so the user can't discover the IP even if a wiki or document > told them to do so (I believe that Linksys, one of the most common routers > in this area, is one such vendor). > > Personally, I find this behavior of the installer to be wrong, in the same > way that I would be angry if my automobile took it upon itself to turn the > steering wheel for me, because I happened to leave the turn-signal activated > for too long. But I'm not a Debian user (I just happen to frequent the > #nslu2-general IRC channel where this issue has become so commonly asked). > > IMO, if this behavior is retained, it needs a gigantic red box (flashing, > preferably) on the web pages describing the installation process. Many of > the users I encounter on that IRC channel are truely novices, so the text > also should not just limit itself to outlining the behavior, but the > implications of it as well (that the unit will DHCP and that many users may > not have routers that offer the ability to see what the DHCP IP might have > been, resulting in an NLSU2 on the network that is well and truely lost). > And, no, running nmap to find it is not an option for most of these users! > > Regards, > Mike (mwester) > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
So, basically even though the user has specified a static IP, the unit DHCP's anyway. Considering that a well-behaved DHCP server will probe the active addresses, it's *guaranteed* that not even by accident will the NSLU2 get the static IP that the user set. Hence the device is "lost on the ether". Debugging this situation is difficult for the novice. First, the user set a static IP -- there's no reason for them to go check their router to see if it issued a DHCP IP in the first place; they're not expecting that to happen. Secondly, many routers don't even provide a means to check what DHCP has done, so the user can't discover the IP even if a wiki or document told them to do so (I believe that Linksys, one of the most common routers in this area, is one such vendor). Personally, I find this behavior of the installer to be wrong, in the same way that I would be angry if my automobile took it upon itself to turn the steering wheel for me, because I happened to leave the turn-signal activated for too long. But I'm not a Debian user (I just happen to frequent the #nslu2-general IRC channel where this issue has become so commonly asked). IMO, if this behavior is retained, it needs a gigantic red box (flashing, preferably) on the web pages describing the installation process. Many of the users I encounter on that IRC channel are truely novices, so the text also should not just limit itself to outlining the behavior, but the implications of it as well (that the unit will DHCP and that many users may not have routers that offer the ability to see what the DHCP IP might have been, resulting in an NLSU2 on the network that is well and truely lost). And, no, running nmap to find it is not an option for most of these users! Regards, Mike (mwester) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
* Sam Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-01-07 23:57]: > I did wonder that, but can't remember if I suggested it in the IRC channel > > Not sure if it's actually noted anywhere then... I was going to say it's documented in my install guide, but I just read it again and it's not clear. I'll clarify it later. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
* Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-01-08 10:03]: > > Whenever the NSLU2 is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.77, and then > > flashed it with the debian installer image, it is requesting an IP > > addresses from DHCP erroneously. Ie it is not following the static ip > > address (which is the Linksys default). Set to 192.168.1.78, and it uses > > the static IP address > My understanding is that this is the intended behaviour of the nslu2 > debian installer network configuration logic. That's correct. The rationale behind it is in case the IP address is 192.168.1.77 you didn't configure it explicitly, so maybe you really want another address. That's why DHCP is used in this case. That's the way the installer currently works, but I'm definitely not saying it has to stay like this. If people find it confusing and have the installer rather use the static address 192.168.1.77 in this case, I can change the logic. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
Hmm I did wonder that, but can't remember if I suggested it in the IRC channel Not sure if it's actually noted anywhere then... Sam -Original Message- From: Rod Whitby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2008 23:34 To: Sam Reed Cc: debian-arm@lists.debian.org; 'Martin Michlmayr' Subject: Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address Sam Reed wrote: > Whenever the NSLU2 is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.77, and then > flashed it with the debian installer image, it is requesting an IP > addresses from DHCP erroneously. Ie it is not following the static ip > address (which is the Linksys default). Set to 192.168.1.78, and it uses > the static IP address My understanding is that this is the intended behaviour of the nslu2 debian installer network configuration logic. (I'm not involved in that code, so Martin would know for sure). -- Rod -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
Sam Reed wrote: > Whenever the NSLU2 is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.77, and then > flashed it with the debian installer image, it is requesting an IP > addresses from DHCP erroneously. Ie it is not following the static ip > address (which is the Linksys default). Set to 192.168.1.78, and it uses > the static IP address My understanding is that this is the intended behaviour of the nslu2 debian installer network configuration logic. (I'm not involved in that code, so Martin would know for sure). -- Rod -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NSLU2 Debian Installer Erroneous asking for an IP address
Whenever the NSLU2 is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.77, and then flashed it with the debian installer image, it is requesting an IP addresses from DHCP erroneously. Ie it is not following the static ip address (which is the Linksys default). Set to 192.168.1.78, and it uses the static IP address (Martin, this is related to that email from before i sent you) Sam I changed my static IP to 192.168.1.77, and it DHCP'd for some very odd reason. :S hehe ok Sounds like a bug to me tht solve my problem tnx for the help Yeah, somebody needs to alert the debian folks of that problem. I'll post it if you want... (it may be more complicated than just that, but it definitely DHCP'd when I told it to do static, and stopped DHCPing when I changed the IP to 192.168.1.78) Its recieving IP address from DHCP rather than the statically assigend one Well, more than just receiving, it's erroneously asking. mwester, maybe so, but it gives martin/others a reasonable starting point so on a statically assigned IP of 1.77 its dhcp'ing, anything else statically assigned its fine? That's true. It's very possible that they missed it because they set up their routers to issue the 192.168.1.77 IP to that MAC address via DHCP. hmm Presumably, they wont have set it up to purposely ask for an ip if its already on the "default" That's how I set up my network as well; it saves a lot of time when testing. i be bet just incase it went awol on IP's, dhcp puts it back on track? That way you test DHCP and static, but your NSLU2 is always at the same address, so you never lose it.
