Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

> APL does have a certain geek appeal, but the weirdness of its
> right-to-left evaluation order makes the character set issues look trivial.

Oh, I forgot about that, I was never totally comfortable with RPN even.

At one point Borland was selling a a "Professional" (read limited)
version of Delphi 3 at $99 for the academic version, if you had a
student ID card.  I used that at my last job (at a college) until
2009.  I've used bootleg copies of later versions but they mostly
didn't have any particular advantage, except maybe for some database
stuff.  Add the free 3rd party Internet Component Suite and 3 Pro was
perfectly useful.  I've used Visual Basic and Visual C++, but the
Borland stuff was better.  My test case was to make a simple image
viewer by drag and dropping things on a form and only needing to write
3 lines of code.  Lazarus can also do that.  No mucking around with
signals and all that, it gets done automatically.  Not in Microsoft's
stuff.

Wikipedia picked up on some of this stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borland and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_%28programming_language%29

And to get back to the original post:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Display_Power_Management_Signaling
That was possibly where I got the idea that killing both H and V sync
pulses should turn the monitor off.  Doesn't work in my case though.
I can make it stay on, but not turn it off, including the backlight.
Simple enough to push one power button on the monitor though.

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 10/01/17 19:30, Alan Corey wrote:

In Wirth's history it was Pascal, Modula, Oberon I think.  I learned
Pascal on a VAX and an Apple 2 at the same time for an Apple 2
project, skipped Modula (and Ada), played with Oberon some.  Borland's
Turbo Pascal screamed, I wrote a lot of Delphi too.  Lazarus suffers
from having too many authors, it's too disorganized.  Borland undercut
everybody on price I think, Turbo Pascal started at something like $30
when everybody else was charging $200+?

I remember seeing some APL but FORTRAN seemed more useful.  I think I
only knew 1 person who used APL.


APL does have a certain geek appeal, but the weirdness of its 
right-to-left evaluation order makes the character set issues look trivial.



FWIW I've never owned a Microsoft mouse, always Logitech.  Never paid
money for a Microsoft product period.


We had to buy a lot of MS and IBM stuff when we bought the rights (i.e. 
source etc.) of what would today be called a SCADA package. I ended up 
rewriting from scratch in Delphi, while I do quite a lot using 
FPC+Lazarus I've never ported that stuff.


Desperately trying to keep somewhat on-topic: Lazarus does a pretty good 
job of being what 30 years ago we'd have called a 4GL, with a 
drag-and-drop form builder, database access and the rest. However I'd 
like to salute one specific MS product: Visual Basic for DOS. If there 
had been anything comparable to that (or to one of the 4GLs such as dbXL 
or whatever) using Curses on Linux it might really have made a 
difference to the extent to which it was adopted.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 10/01/17 19:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 06:43:57PM +, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

I've just managed to rescue a bunch of Logitech compiler manuals (I've
recently had to sacrifice a lot of old stuff) with the hope of at least
getting a photo of their early products into Wp to keep the knowledge alive.
The v3 copyright notices start off at 1984 (v2 might have earlier dates but
I can't see where I've put it), and I am pretty sure that that predates
their mice; my recollection is that Mouse Systems and "PC Mouse" which might
or might not have been distinct had the market to themselves in the earliest
days.


Well they were doing mice in 1982 along with some gui editor.  I think


The editor was probably Point, it was really quite good and had 
(undocumented) expansion capabilities.



modula-2 and debuging came in 1983.  Selling mice by themselves seem to
have been a couple of years later, whenever the C7 came out, although
they were selling mice to Apollo and HP before that.  Not sure if they
also supplied Sun or if that was someone else, although given it was
optical, probably someone else.


Thanks for that timeframe. I've definitely seen Mouse Systems mice on 
Apollo and Sun and Wp has a photo for the latter.



Logitech started to walk away from compilers and concentrate on peripherals
when they bought a small company (AMS?) in Warrington ("where the wodka
comes from") that made mice etc. for the likes of Amstrad computers, AIUI
they also had... errm... personnel problems which effectively resulted in
their shutting down the UK office (a nicely-appointed tithe barn somewhere
in the Home Counties, possibly Berkshire but I forget the exact location).

Of course, Logitech's M2 was challenged by JPI/Topspeed which was bought out
of Borland. legend had it that Borland effectively sabotaged the 8-bit
variant by retaining the manual copyright and refusing to reprint, but the
16-bit variants did fairly well for a while until they had... errm...
personnel problems in their USA office which effectively forced them to sell
out to Clarion.

I supported the Logitech compiler being used for embedded '186 work at
Lowbrow Uni in the mid-80s, and later did a fair amount of embedded work
using TopSpeed (bare-metal '286 code). These days of course one would use
ARM for comparable jobs, with or without a standard OS.


Yeah lots of options today.

Borland and Watcom and such all seem to have died out by now.


I think that at least some of the Watcom stuff is open-source now.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 06:43:57PM +, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> I've just managed to rescue a bunch of Logitech compiler manuals (I've
> recently had to sacrifice a lot of old stuff) with the hope of at least
> getting a photo of their early products into Wp to keep the knowledge alive.
> The v3 copyright notices start off at 1984 (v2 might have earlier dates but
> I can't see where I've put it), and I am pretty sure that that predates
> their mice; my recollection is that Mouse Systems and "PC Mouse" which might
> or might not have been distinct had the market to themselves in the earliest
> days.

Well they were doing mice in 1982 along with some gui editor.  I think
modula-2 and debuging came in 1983.  Selling mice by themselves seem to
have been a couple of years later, whenever the C7 came out, although
they were selling mice to Apollo and HP before that.  Not sure if they
also supplied Sun or if that was someone else, although given it was
optical, probably someone else.

> Logitech started to walk away from compilers and concentrate on peripherals
> when they bought a small company (AMS?) in Warrington ("where the wodka
> comes from") that made mice etc. for the likes of Amstrad computers, AIUI
> they also had... errm... personnel problems which effectively resulted in
> their shutting down the UK office (a nicely-appointed tithe barn somewhere
> in the Home Counties, possibly Berkshire but I forget the exact location).
> 
> Of course, Logitech's M2 was challenged by JPI/Topspeed which was bought out
> of Borland. legend had it that Borland effectively sabotaged the 8-bit
> variant by retaining the manual copyright and refusing to reprint, but the
> 16-bit variants did fairly well for a while until they had... errm...
> personnel problems in their USA office which effectively forced them to sell
> out to Clarion.
> 
> I supported the Logitech compiler being used for embedded '186 work at
> Lowbrow Uni in the mid-80s, and later did a fair amount of embedded work
> using TopSpeed (bare-metal '286 code). These days of course one would use
> ARM for comparable jobs, with or without a standard OS.

Yeah lots of options today.

Borland and Watcom and such all seem to have died out by now.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

In Wirth's history it was Pascal, Modula, Oberon I think.  I learned
Pascal on a VAX and an Apple 2 at the same time for an Apple 2
project, skipped Modula (and Ada), played with Oberon some.  Borland's
Turbo Pascal screamed, I wrote a lot of Delphi too.  Lazarus suffers
from having too many authors, it's too disorganized.  Borland undercut
everybody on price I think, Turbo Pascal started at something like $30
when everybody else was charging $200+?

I remember seeing some APL but FORTRAN seemed more useful.  I think I
only knew 1 person who used APL.

FWIW I've never owned a Microsoft mouse, always Logitech.  Never paid
money for a Microsoft product period.

On 1/10/17, Mark Morgan Lloyd  wrote:
> On 10/01/17 17:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 08:17:59AM +, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>> On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>
> Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.
>
 Thats a different company I believe.
>>>
>>> Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long
>>> predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering way
>>> OT).
>>
>> Logitech made software and mice right from the start, and only got into
>> compilers (module-2 I believe) a bit later (although not very much later
>> it seems)
>
> I've just managed to rescue a bunch of Logitech compiler manuals (I've
> recently had to sacrifice a lot of old stuff) with the hope of at least
> getting a photo of their early products into Wp to keep the knowledge
> alive. The v3 copyright notices start off at 1984 (v2 might have earlier
> dates but I can't see where I've put it), and I am pretty sure that that
> predates their mice; my recollection is that Mouse Systems and "PC
> Mouse" which might or might not have been distinct had the market to
> themselves in the earliest days.
>
> Logitech started to walk away from compilers and concentrate on
> peripherals when they bought a small company (AMS?) in Warrington
> ("where the wodka comes from") that made mice etc. for the likes of
> Amstrad computers, AIUI they also had... errm... personnel problems
> which effectively resulted in their shutting down the UK office (a
> nicely-appointed tithe barn somewhere in the Home Counties, possibly
> Berkshire but I forget the exact location).
>
> Of course, Logitech's M2 was challenged by JPI/Topspeed which was bought
> out of Borland. legend had it that Borland effectively sabotaged the
> 8-bit variant by retaining the manual copyright and refusing to reprint,
> but the 16-bit variants did fairly well for a while until they had...
> errm... personnel problems in their USA office which effectively forced
> them to sell out to Clarion.
>
> I supported the Logitech compiler being used for embedded '186 work at
> Lowbrow Uni in the mid-80s, and later did a fair amount of embedded work
> using TopSpeed (bare-metal '286 code). These days of course one would
> use ARM for comparable jobs, with or without a standard OS.
>
> --
> Mark Morgan Lloyd
> markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk
>
> [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
>
>


-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 10/01/17 17:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 08:17:59AM +, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:




Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.


Thats a different company I believe.


Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long
predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering way OT).


Logitech made software and mice right from the start, and only got into
compilers (module-2 I believe) a bit later (although not very much later
it seems)


I've just managed to rescue a bunch of Logitech compiler manuals (I've 
recently had to sacrifice a lot of old stuff) with the hope of at least 
getting a photo of their early products into Wp to keep the knowledge 
alive. The v3 copyright notices start off at 1984 (v2 might have earlier 
dates but I can't see where I've put it), and I am pretty sure that that 
predates their mice; my recollection is that Mouse Systems and "PC 
Mouse" which might or might not have been distinct had the market to 
themselves in the earliest days.


Logitech started to walk away from compilers and concentrate on 
peripherals when they bought a small company (AMS?) in Warrington 
("where the wodka comes from") that made mice etc. for the likes of 
Amstrad computers, AIUI they also had... errm... personnel problems 
which effectively resulted in their shutting down the UK office (a 
nicely-appointed tithe barn somewhere in the Home Counties, possibly 
Berkshire but I forget the exact location).


Of course, Logitech's M2 was challenged by JPI/Topspeed which was bought 
out of Borland. legend had it that Borland effectively sabotaged the 
8-bit variant by retaining the manual copyright and refusing to reprint, 
but the 16-bit variants did fairly well for a while until they had... 
errm... personnel problems in their USA office which effectively forced 
them to sell out to Clarion.


I supported the Logitech compiler being used for embedded '186 work at 
Lowbrow Uni in the mid-80s, and later did a fair amount of embedded work 
using TopSpeed (bare-metal '286 code). These days of course one would 
use ARM for comparable jobs, with or without a standard OS.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 08:17:59AM +, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> 
> >>
> >>Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.
> >>
> >Thats a different company I believe.
> 
> Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long
> predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering way OT).

Logitech made software and mice right from the start, and only got into
compilers (module-2 I believe) a bit later (although not very much later
it seems)

Not like Microsoft that started in compilers and much later got into mice.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 10 January 2017 08:10:29 Alan Corey wrote:

> On 1/10/17, Mark Morgan Lloyd  
wrote:
> > On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> >>> Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.
>
> And Microsoft should have stuck to selling GWBASIC
>
> Actually I never had a lot of trouble with Logitech stuff, most of my
> mice are Logitech.  I still use one of the "Mouse Man" wedge-shaped
> ergonomic mice from the late 90s, PS/2.  I had 2 or 3 parallel port
> webcams, maybe by them, their software was terrible.  I didn't know
> they had compilers.
>
> The
> xset s noblank s off -dpms
> that was posted here has kept my monitor on for a couple days, maybe
> I'll resurrect xscreensaver.  I wanted the monitor to turn off,
> including the backlight though.
>
> >> Thats a different company I believe.
> >
> > Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long
> > predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering
> > way OT).
> >
> >>> I want an APL keyboard. One of those controlling CAM kit would be
> >>> decidedly cool :-)
> >>
> >> APL? Not fam with that acronym.

But now nearly 40 yo memories are floating up. The IBM 5150 spoke APL, 
where you could backspace over a command typed, and by pressing a 
special key, you could over print the character and make it a different 
command as it then showed the 2 characters over the top of each other in 
one character space. It had IIRC a 5" electrostaticly deflected 
oscilloscope tube for a display.

Even farther off-topic, I wonder what a working one of those is worth 
today...
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:APL-keybd2.svg
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_%28programming_language%29#Syntax
> >
> > Weird by today's standards, but has its uses and there's
> > implementations that run on Debian ARM etc.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Morgan Lloyd
> > markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk
> >
> > [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or
> > colleagues]


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

On 1/10/17, Mark Morgan Lloyd  wrote:
> On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.

And Microsoft should have stuck to selling GWBASIC

Actually I never had a lot of trouble with Logitech stuff, most of my
mice are Logitech.  I still use one of the "Mouse Man" wedge-shaped
ergonomic mice from the late 90s, PS/2.  I had 2 or 3 parallel port
webcams, maybe by them, their software was terrible.  I didn't know
they had compilers.

The
xset s noblank s off -dpms
that was posted here has kept my monitor on for a couple days, maybe
I'll resurrect xscreensaver.  I wanted the monitor to turn off,
including the backlight though.

>>>
>> Thats a different company I believe.
>
> Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long
> predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering way
> OT).
>
>>> I want an APL keyboard. One of those controlling CAM kit would be
>>> decidedly cool :-)
>>
>> APL? Not fam with that acronym.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:APL-keybd2.svg
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_%28programming_language%29#Syntax
>
> Weird by today's standards, but has its uses and there's implementations
> that run on Debian ARM etc.
>
> --
> Mark Morgan Lloyd
> markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk
>
> [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
>
>


-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 09/01/17 22:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:




Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.


Thats a different company I believe.


Same company, I was their de-facto UK tech support for a while. Long 
predated Linux of course (in a nod to the fact that we're wandering way OT).



I want an APL keyboard. One of those controlling CAM kit would be
decidedly cool :-)


APL? Not fam with that acronym.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:APL-keybd2.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_%28programming_language%29#Syntax

Weird by today's standards, but has its uses and there's implementations 
that run on Debian ARM etc.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 09 January 2017 10:52:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 09/01/17 15:00, Alan Corey wrote:
> >>> 1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or
> >>> TV, there's a fair number of these on eBay.
> >
> > The best deal on a cheap HDMI monitor I've been able to find is
> > actually a TV.  It has HDMI, VGA, RCA type analog video inputs.  It
> > has a DVD drive tucked in behind the screen, you can plug a USB
> > memory stick or SD card into it to view pictures or play MP3s.  And
> > it runs on 12 volts: comes with a wall wart and I think also a cord
> > with a cigarette lighter plug, but it has a standard 2.1 or 2.5 mm
> > coaxial power input jack.
>
> I've got a big 4K TV here (replacing my earlier experiments with xdmx
> etc.) but after possibly a year's use there's definitely degradation
> of the pixels or underlying active elements. By comparison, both a
> Philips monitor and my old NEC are rock-solid. It /definitely/ needs
> config.txt magic, which is a PITA if I have to move RPis around. So
> that philosophy is workable, but one needs to budget for a
> replacement.

I am using a 22" Samsung tv on the bigger mill, 9 yo, only problem is the 
ccfl backlight is slow to reach full brightness. The lamp psu caps are 
probably suffering from bulged tops (again, replaced once), so they have 
to reach "operating" temperature.  But the pix is perfect after 2 or 3 
minutes. I bought a pair of them when we made the changeover to hi-def 
on June 30th, 2008.  That one failed its tuner years ago but as a 
monitor its great.  The other one is hanging on a swing mount in my 
bedroom, working just as well as when new after all these years.  My 
lady's tv has been replaced and is now a 42" LG, and needs a new remote, 
but my lady is a channel surfer when she has one eye open. She had 
cataracts removed from both eyes about a year ago, and when she saw that 
after the patches came off, she was amazed a tv could be that bright and 
sharp.  Mine are getting bothersome too, so one of these days when it 
starts to warm up, I'll investigate my plan F.

> >> I bought some of those covers for the logitek k-360 keyboards, but
> >> the form fitted to the keys stuff could turn inside out and would
> >> hold a key down.  It was much worse than just being carefull. This
> >> was on a medium
>
> Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.
>
Thats a different company I believe.

> I want an APL keyboard. One of those controlling CAM kit would be
> decidedly cool :-)

APL? Not fam with that acronym.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 09 January 2017 09:47:33 Alan Corey wrote:

> >> 1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or
> >> TV, there's a fair number of these on eBay.
>
> The best deal on a cheap HDMI monitor I've been able to find is
> actually a TV.  It has HDMI, VGA, RCA type analog video inputs.  It
> has a DVD drive tucked in behind the screen, you can plug a USB memory
> stick or SD card into it to view pictures or play MP3s.  And it runs
> on 12 volts: comes with a wall wart and I think also a cord with a
> cigarette lighter plug, but it has a standard 2.1 or 2.5 mm coaxial
> power input jack.
>
> Try to find a 12 volt HDMI monitor otherwise and they're expensive.  I
> bought it to use with my DSLR for focusing so it at least had to run
> on a battery pack and be portable.  I've used it, not extensively yet,
> connected to a Pi, with the HDMI input.  Then I tried connecting it to
> a 6 meter ground plane antenna in the attic and discovered a TV
> station showing every episode of all 5 Star Trek series, so right now
> it gets used as a TV.  The only problem I've had is that after
> dropping it a dozen times or so on a concrete floor the mute button on
> the remote is sluggish.
>
> I bought the 13 inch, but the same electronics are also used with
> bigger displays.  Looks like they all use 1333x768 resolution.

That's a wee bit odd, std in that category is 1366x768. 
> The 
> EDID does work correctly with a Pi, you can use it without a
> config.txt file.  A menu, reachable by remote, switches between the
> inputs.  I bought a 13 inch for $140 but Walmart lists a few at $125
> now.  They're made up to at least 32 inch.
> https://www.axessusa.com/product-category/televisions/television-dvd-c
>ombo I have a tvd1801-13, I see there's also a tvd1803, don't know
> anything about that.  Newer model I think.
>
> > I bought some of those covers for the logitek k-360 keyboards, but
> > the form fitted to the keys stuff could turn inside out and would
> > hold a key down.  It was much worse than just being carefull. This
> > was on a medium
>
> Have you considered a touch screen?
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-touch-display/
> That's smallish at 7 inches but one-piece computer-monitor combos are
> all the rage on alibaba.

Thats about 15" too small AND alibaba owes me several hundred for stuff I 
bought because the only way to contact them is browser based, and uses 
something to enable the text entry that no linux browser has.  I give 
most such off-shore outfits the benefit of the doubt, figuring they will 
fix it in due time, but after several $100+ purchases that I needed help 
with, I am fresh out of doubt for alibaba. They are now in my "and the 
camel that rode in on them" category.

> A capacitive keyboard doesn't need to be much more than 2 spirals for
> each "key" etched as printed circuit traces.  When you touch it the
> capacitance at that key changes.  That can  be mounted behind
> something like a flat sheet of glass and still adjusted to work.
> Whatever gets on the surface you just wipe off.  The glass could be
> Pyrex like some stove tops.  It takes at least a propane-oxygen flame
> to get hot enough to melt Pyrex, almost white hot.  Probably a lot of
> reinventing the wheel to bring all that out to a USB plug unless you
> can find something surplus.

The one maker I found via a google search is VERY proud of it, $250 
worth, and apparently made to order with a nearly 75 day a.r.o. to ship. 
For obvious reasons I've already forgotten that name as thats way out of 
my pay grade. :-\

But this isn't fixing the dpms non-function.  OTOH, I've not rebooted 
since changing that .conf file I found.  I have to run into town for 
some #10 ring lugs, so I'll do that right now & post if it was a success 
later, because it should turn itself back off when I return from town & 
turn it on. And when I returned the whole network had been reset, short 
local power failure at 13:16 had rebooted 4 of them, and the 5th has not 
yet been trained to auto-start when the power came back because my 
generator is up and delivering in about 3 seconds.

When I went out and turned the monitor on, the blanker had quit, but it 
stayed powered up and sitting in black for the minute I observed it. 
Back inside I see that after another 20 minutes, something called xlyap 
has kicked in and is burning a bit over 70% of one core. (gotta get 
aiglx working, hint hint) I assume thats one of the animated 
screensavers.

But I have work to do that will shut it down, so I'd better git-r-done.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

This is getting a tad off-topic, not that I care particularly.  I was
doing some Googling and ran across https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ which
might have something appropriate.  I'd never heard of it.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/ was what I was Googling for, also
Herbach and Rademan, https://www.sciplus.com (was jerryco),
Electronics Goldmine, All Electronics  Any of these places might have
something in keyboards, at least until they sell it out.  I used to
work in R&D and part of my job was to maintain a file cabinet of
catalogs and report anything that looked useful.  I left that job in
1990 though, I'm not current.

Logitech, well, the mk200 mouse + keyboard combo deal at $20 isn't
bad, I've got a couple.  Oh, and I love my collection of "mouse man"
ergonomic wedge-shaped mice from the 90s.  Bought a couple new and
more used on eBay for parts since they're discontinued.  All PS/2
though. And not designed to keep chips out.

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 09/01/17 15:00, Alan Corey wrote:

1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or TV,
there's a fair number of these on eBay.


The best deal on a cheap HDMI monitor I've been able to find is
actually a TV.  It has HDMI, VGA, RCA type analog video inputs.  It
has a DVD drive tucked in behind the screen, you can plug a USB memory
stick or SD card into it to view pictures or play MP3s.  And it runs
on 12 volts: comes with a wall wart and I think also a cord with a
cigarette lighter plug, but it has a standard 2.1 or 2.5 mm coaxial
power input jack.


I've got a big 4K TV here (replacing my earlier experiments with xdmx 
etc.) but after possibly a year's use there's definitely degradation of 
the pixels or underlying active elements. By comparison, both a Philips 
monitor and my old NEC are rock-solid. It /definitely/ needs config.txt 
magic, which is a PITA if I have to move RPis around. So that philosophy 
is workable, but one needs to budget for a replacement.



I bought some of those covers for the logitek k-360 keyboards, but the
form fitted to the keys stuff could turn inside out and would hold a key
down.  It was much worse than just being carefull. This was on a medium


Logitech should have stuck to selling compilers.


Have you considered a touch screen?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-touch-display/
That's smallish at 7 inches but one-piece computer-monitor combos are
all the rage on alibaba.

A capacitive keyboard doesn't need to be much more than 2 spirals for
each "key" etched as printed circuit traces.


I want an APL keyboard. One of those controlling CAM kit would be 
decidedly cool :-)


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

>> 1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or TV,
>> there's a fair number of these on eBay.

The best deal on a cheap HDMI monitor I've been able to find is
actually a TV.  It has HDMI, VGA, RCA type analog video inputs.  It
has a DVD drive tucked in behind the screen, you can plug a USB memory
stick or SD card into it to view pictures or play MP3s.  And it runs
on 12 volts: comes with a wall wart and I think also a cord with a
cigarette lighter plug, but it has a standard 2.1 or 2.5 mm coaxial
power input jack.

Try to find a 12 volt HDMI monitor otherwise and they're expensive.  I
bought it to use with my DSLR for focusing so it at least had to run
on a battery pack and be portable.  I've used it, not extensively yet,
connected to a Pi, with the HDMI input.  Then I tried connecting it to
a 6 meter ground plane antenna in the attic and discovered a TV
station showing every episode of all 5 Star Trek series, so right now
it gets used as a TV.  The only problem I've had is that after
dropping it a dozen times or so on a concrete floor the mute button on
the remote is sluggish.

I bought the 13 inch, but the same electronics are also used with
bigger displays.  Looks like they all use 1333x768 resolution.  The
EDID does work correctly with a Pi, you can use it without a
config.txt file.  A menu, reachable by remote, switches between the
inputs.  I bought a 13 inch for $140 but Walmart lists a few at $125
now.  They're made up to at least 32 inch.
https://www.axessusa.com/product-category/televisions/television-dvd-combo
 I have a tvd1801-13, I see there's also a tvd1803, don't know
anything about that.  Newer model I think.

> I bought some of those covers for the logitek k-360 keyboards, but the
> form fitted to the keys stuff could turn inside out and would hold a key
> down.  It was much worse than just being carefull. This was on a medium

Have you considered a touch screen?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-touch-display/
That's smallish at 7 inches but one-piece computer-monitor combos are
all the rage on alibaba.

A capacitive keyboard doesn't need to be much more than 2 spirals for
each "key" etched as printed circuit traces.  When you touch it the
capacitance at that key changes.  That can  be mounted behind
something like a flat sheet of glass and still adjusted to work.
Whatever gets on the surface you just wipe off.  The glass could be
Pyrex like some stove tops.  It takes at least a propane-oxygen flame
to get hot enough to melt Pyrex, almost white hot.  Probably a lot of
reinventing the wheel to bring all that out to a USB plug unless you
can find something surplus.

-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 09 January 2017 06:11:46 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 08/01/17 18:00, Alan Corey wrote:
> > No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
> > then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
> > think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
> > both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or
> > after a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that. 
> > Never happens though.
> >
>  > On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>  >> Greetings folks;
>  >>
>  >> Running LXDE.
>
> Watching the thread with interest. We use pukka Debian here installed
> on top of Raspbian (in order to get the most up to date loader and RPi
> kernel). /However/, we select KDE as the window manager AKA desktop,
> and in general screens stay up etc. as configured.
>
> Having said that, one of my colleagues is experiencing problems where
> all of a sudden the RPi or HDMI-connected monitor stops displaying
> anything. Disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI appears to fix that,
> but nothing relevant is logged explaining the outage; hence we agree
> that
>
> > X needs to talk to the GPU better.
>
> although we'd note that we see not-dissimilar problems on an Odroid
> C2, so (and in an effort to keep this OT) there might be generic
> problems affecting multiple ARM platforms and Debian derivatives.
>
> I find that an RPi 2 or 3 drives its HDMI in such a way that a passive
> adapter suffices to drive an NEC Multisync LCD (specifically, an
> 1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or TV,
> there's a fair number of these on eBay.
>
> Apart from that we use classic IBM keyboards here, which are fairly
> resistant to foreign bodies and for which it certainly used to be
> possible to get squishy covers to keep (in the case of one of our
> former customers) printing ink out.

I bought some of those covers for the logitek k-360 keyboards, but the 
form fitted to the keys stuff could turn inside out and would hold a key 
down.  It was much worse than just being carefull. This was on a medium 
sized mill, and I will have to install a lexan baffle on the left side 
of my sitdown operating position when I have this lathe actually making 
swarf. Swarf from the mill is more broadcasting it with an air hose to 
keep the area clean enough to see what its doing. I have a vacuum rigged 
for g-code control but its a constant battle to keep the nozzle in 
position to do a good job of sucking up the swarf as its always getting 
knocked out of position as the mill moves. I've made a cyclone dust 
separator for it, so the vacs filter stays pretty clean as better than 
99.9% of it winds up in the 5 gallon plastic pail under it.

> Of course a lot depends on what colour the swarf is glowing :-)

With quality carbide indexable tooling, it might be orange or better 
since carbide is still happy at 6000F :) With more normal HSS tooling 
glow in the dark red.  Even that will soften and degrade the edge too 
fast, so its wise to use a directed coolant stream with HSS tooling. 
Thats in the schedule at some point. :)  All this stuff is bring money 
and I'm on SS, so its slower to accumulate the sheckels. It also means I 
make a lot of stuff rather than buying it. Sweat equity. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 08/01/17 18:00, Alan Corey wrote:

No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or after
a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that.  Never
happens though.


> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> Greetings folks;
>>
>> Running LXDE.

Watching the thread with interest. We use pukka Debian here installed on 
top of Raspbian (in order to get the most up to date loader and RPi 
kernel). /However/, we select KDE as the window manager AKA desktop, and 
in general screens stay up etc. as configured.


Having said that, one of my colleagues is experiencing problems where 
all of a sudden the RPi or HDMI-connected monitor stops displaying 
anything. Disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI appears to fix that, 
but nothing relevant is logged explaining the outage; hence we agree that



X needs to talk to the GPU better.


although we'd note that we see not-dissimilar problems on an Odroid C2, 
so (and in an effort to keep this OT) there might be generic problems 
affecting multiple ARM platforms and Debian derivatives.


I find that an RPi 2 or 3 drives its HDMI in such a way that a passive 
adapter suffices to drive an NEC Multisync LCD (specifically, an 
1860NX). So even if ones budget doesn't run to an HDMI monitor or TV, 
there's a fair number of these on eBay.


Apart from that we use classic IBM keyboards here, which are fairly 
resistant to foreign bodies and for which it certainly used to be 
possible to get squishy covers to keep (in the case of one of our former 
customers) printing ink out.


Of course a lot depends on what colour the swarf is glowing :-)

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 08 January 2017 18:21:25 Alan Corey wrote:

> I doubt xscreensaver is any default, KDE and probably Gnome have their
> own forks of it because it doesn't get along with their stuff.  Some
> of the neatest screensavers need OpenGL, there are about 200 different
> ones, it's been around at least 20 years. It's a framework that brings
> up contributed programs when desired then closes them.  It's a big
> deal.
>
> In the Pi environment where the GPU is the boss and the CPU runs under
> it, having a program like tvservice that controls the GPU can be
> useful.  2 of my 3 monitors are too old for the fancy EDID stuff to
> work, so I still don't have quite the video modes I'd like.  This
> monitor I'm using has a max resolution of 1280x1024 but I'm running at
> 102x768 because the 1280x1024 blanks out once every couple minutes,
> there's something in the timing a tiny bit off. The Pi can also do CVT
> (Consolidated Video Timing), a little like modelines.  Modelines and
> xvidtune probably don't work.
>
> So does this Pi run a milling machine or something?

A nominally 1500 lb Sheldon lathe that is about 65 years old.  The 
compound the toolpost sits on was apparently broken, possibly by falling 
over onto it. That, since the computer makes a compound slide a 
duplication of efforts, has been replaced by several lbs of machined 
cast iron, rendering the toolpost support at least 10x more rigid than 
when it was new. IOW a huge improvement in the overall function. I also 
have a 7x12 that has had the same conversion, and a tapered gib 
conversion I built, and with the 1 hp motor, is now a lathe that can do 
a very good finish that can do its operations much faster and about 10x 
more precise than when it was new many years ago.

Then this ones crossfeed screw was ok, but the nut was a mess, so ball 
screws and nuts were installed. But I am having problems with electrical 
noise getting into things, so I am slowly redoing the grounding into a 
single bolt star ground. But I need to go out and get a couple boxes of 
#10 ring lugs before I can do much more. The garage is insulated and 
heated well, but its 13F with 5" coat of snow on both vehicles. So I'm 
hibernating, like any self-respecting & long retired old bear. :)

> I think there are 
> keyboards like modern phones that have no "keys", they're capacitive
> pads under a flat glass or plastic cover so nothing can get into them.
> The only machine tools I've run were several decades too old to have
> computers. Good to learn on, but totally manual.
>
> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 January 2017 13:19:42 Alan Corey wrote:
> >> My workaround is to leave the Pi on and only turn on the monitor
> >> when I sit down at it.  I used to love xscreensaver but it was
> >> impractical. Some of those "hacks" didn't exit cleanly.
> >
> > tvervice doesn't sound all that usefull from here.
It sounds as if it needs to be run before you walk away for the night.
> >
> > Another thing is that at bootup, the screensaver starts up
> > instantly, and it takes a tap on the spacebar to get the opening
> > gui. Possibly a mouse movement might kill it too, but the mouse is
> > currently sitting on a nema 34 motor to the left of the keyboard and
> > down 4 inches, and the keyboard is on the motormount bracket. Much
> > handier to reach IOW.
> >
> > I need to make a small table for both to live on, with a swarf
> > deflecting roof over it. Although this particular keyboard could be
> > covered with something like Saran Wrap if it was short stroke
> > enough. But the angled so the swarf slides off to the rear "roof"
> > and a swing up cover over the chuck that resembles a tire balancer's
> > cover can go quite a ways toward keeping the keyboard clean enough
> > to work.
> >
> > Only straight sided keytops allowed though. The usual tapered sided
> > keytop will let a piece of swarf follow the key down, then wedge it
> > in the down position & you get a run away motion if driving it by
> > hand and the key sticks down.
> >
> > "Swarf" for the edification is the flying cuttings, usually steel,
> > from the cutting tool when its running.
> >
> > Back on the topic of this thread, is this xscreensaver the default?
> > Its running, and I found the control file, and dpms was set false. I
> > set it to True just for S & G.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

On 1/8/17, François Leblanc  wrote:
> For my raspberry pi I need to have a pause between server start and xset
> command:
>
> My start script include commands:
>
>
> sleep 20
>
> $DISPLAY xset s noblank s off -dpms

This seems effective at keeping the monitor on, I just tested it for
15 minutes.  You can also call xset from your xinitrc, I've done that
for mouse settings.  I boot to a command line then use startx.  Never
needed the sleep that way.

-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

I doubt xscreensaver is any default, KDE and probably Gnome have their
own forks of it because it doesn't get along with their stuff.  Some
of the neatest screensavers need OpenGL, there are about 200 different
ones, it's been around at least 20 years. It's a framework that brings
up contributed programs when desired then closes them.  It's a big
deal.

In the Pi environment where the GPU is the boss and the CPU runs under
it, having a program like tvservice that controls the GPU can be
useful.  2 of my 3 monitors are too old for the fancy EDID stuff to
work, so I still don't have quite the video modes I'd like.  This
monitor I'm using has a max resolution of 1280x1024 but I'm running at
102x768 because the 1280x1024 blanks out once every couple minutes,
there's something in the timing a tiny bit off. The Pi can also do CVT
(Consolidated Video Timing), a little like modelines.  Modelines and
xvidtune probably don't work.

So does this Pi run a milling machine or something?  I think there are
keyboards like modern phones that have no "keys", they're capacitive
pads under a flat glass or plastic cover so nothing can get into them.
The only machine tools I've run were several decades too old to have
computers. Good to learn on, but totally manual.

On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 08 January 2017 13:19:42 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> My workaround is to leave the Pi on and only turn on the monitor when
>> I sit down at it.  I used to love xscreensaver but it was impractical.
>> Some of those "hacks" didn't exit cleanly.
>
> tvervice doesn't sound all that usefull from here.
>
> Another thing is that at bootup, the screensaver starts up instantly, and
> it takes a tap on the spacebar to get the opening gui. Possibly a mouse
> movement might kill it too, but the mouse is currently sitting on a nema
> 34 motor to the left of the keyboard and down 4 inches, and the keyboard
> is on the motormount bracket. Much handier to reach IOW.
>
> I need to make a small table for both to live on, with a swarf deflecting
> roof over it. Although this particular keyboard could be covered with
> something like Saran Wrap if it was short stroke enough. But the angled
> so the swarf slides off to the rear "roof" and a swing up cover over the
> chuck that resembles a tire balancer's cover can go quite a ways toward
> keeping the keyboard clean enough to work.
>
> Only straight sided keytops allowed though. The usual tapered sided
> keytop will let a piece of swarf follow the key down, then wedge it in
> the down position & you get a run away motion if driving it by hand and
> the key sticks down.
>
> "Swarf" for the edification is the flying cuttings, usually steel, from
> the cutting tool when its running.
>
> Back on the topic of this thread, is this xscreensaver the default? Its
> running, and I found the control file, and dpms was set false. I set it
> to True just for S & G.
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 08 January 2017 13:19:42 Alan Corey wrote:

> My workaround is to leave the Pi on and only turn on the monitor when
> I sit down at it.  I used to love xscreensaver but it was impractical.
> Some of those "hacks" didn't exit cleanly.

tvervice doesn't sound all that usefull from here.

Another thing is that at bootup, the screensaver starts up instantly, and 
it takes a tap on the spacebar to get the opening gui. Possibly a mouse 
movement might kill it too, but the mouse is currently sitting on a nema 
34 motor to the left of the keyboard and down 4 inches, and the keyboard 
is on the motormount bracket. Much handier to reach IOW.

I need to make a small table for both to live on, with a swarf deflecting 
roof over it. Although this particular keyboard could be covered with 
something like Saran Wrap if it was short stroke enough. But the angled 
so the swarf slides off to the rear "roof" and a swing up cover over the 
chuck that resembles a tire balancer's cover can go quite a ways toward 
keeping the keyboard clean enough to work.

Only straight sided keytops allowed though. The usual tapered sided 
keytop will let a piece of swarf follow the key down, then wedge it in 
the down position & you get a run away motion if driving it by hand and 
the key sticks down.

"Swarf" for the edification is the flying cuttings, usually steel, from 
the cutting tool when its running.

Back on the topic of this thread, is this xscreensaver the default? Its 
running, and I found the control file, and dpms was set false. I set it 
to True just for S & G.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[François Leblanc]

For my raspberry pi I need to have a pause between server start and xset
command:

My start script include commands:


sleep 20

$DISPLAY xset s noblank s off -dpms


2017-01-08 19:19 GMT+01:00 Alan Corey :

> My workaround is to leave the Pi on and only turn on the monitor when
> I sit down at it.  I used to love xscreensaver but it was impractical.
> Some of those "hacks" didn't exit cleanly.
>
> pi2# tvservice
> Usage: tvservice [OPTION]...
>   -p, --preferred   Power on HDMI with preferred settings
>   -e, --explicit="GROUP MODE DRIVE" Power on HDMI with explicit GROUP
> (CEA, DMT, CEA_3D_SBS, CEA_3D_TB, CEA_3D_FP, CEA_3D_FS)
>   MODE (see --modes) and DRIVE (HDMI,
> DVI)
>   -t, --ntscUse NTSC frequency for HDMI mode
> (e.g. 59.94Hz rather than 60Hz)
>   -c, --sdtvon="MODE ASPECT"Power on SDTV with MODE (PAL or
> NTSC) and ASPECT (4:3 14:9 or 16:9)
>   -o, --off Power off the display
>   -m, --modes=GROUP Get supported modes for GROUP (CEA,
> DMT)
>   -M, --monitor Monitor HDMI events
>   -s, --status  Get HDMI status
>   -a, --audio   Get supported audio information
>   -d, --dumpedid  Dump EDID information to file
>   -j, --jsonUse JSON format for --modes output
>   -n, --namePrint the device ID from EDID
>   -h, --helpPrint this information
> pi2#
>
>
> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 January 2017 12:52:01 Alan Corey wrote:
> >
> >> No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
> >> then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
> >> think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
> >> both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or after
> >> a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that.  Never
> >> happens though.
> >>
> > Here it never happens, possibly because the screen savers fawncy graphics
> > screen saver stuff never stops. pull the hdmi cable and it displays "no
> > signal" in a floating box, and powers down in about 30 secs.
> >
> >> I installed some extra stuff (maybe, it was 6 months or more ago):
> >>
> >> pi2# apropos dpms
> >> DPMSCapable (3)  - returns the DPMS capability of the X server
> >> DPMSDisable (3)  - disables DPMS on the specified display
> >> DPMSEnable (3)   - enables DPMS on the specified display
> >> DPMSForceLevel (3)   - forces a DPMS capable display into the
> >> specified power... DPMSGetTimeouts (3)  - retrieves the timeout values
> >> used by the X server for ... DPMSGetVersion (3)   - returns the
> >> version of the DPMS extension implemented ... DPMSInfo (3) -
> >> returns information about the current DPMS state DPMSQueryExtension
> >> (3) - queries the X server to determine the availability o...
> >> DPMSSetTimeouts (3)  - permits applications to set the timeout values
> >> used by... pi2#
> >> Some of those look like functions to be called from C in a program.
> >> This is on a Pi 3B under Raspbian Jessie.
> >>
> >> Searching in the Pi forums for dpms gets a bunch of hits, but
> >> different people are looking for different things like how to keep the
> >> monitor always on. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/  I wanted to
> >> turn it completely off, including the backlight.
> >>
> > Same here as I want the pi running 24/7 so amanda can back it up in the
> > middle of the night.
> >> My guess is that it has to do with the GPU and how well X functions
> >> are/aren't implemented.  If you're in Raspbian take a look at
> >> tvservice (no man page) which seems to be about the only thing that
> >> connects to the GPU.  I just did tvservice --off and had to ssh in
> >> from another box, short of rebooting.  Backlight was still on though.
> > Even for an led backlight, thats a bit of a bummer. The whole monitor
> > only uses 11 watts, but it sure advertises that its on.
> >
> >> Unplugging the monitor's power cord and plugging back in did nothing
> >> so it didn't *really* turn the monitor off.  tvservice is also unique
> >> in letting you change video modes on the fly, otherwise you need to
> >> put a change into /boot/config.txt and reboot.  Straight Debian on a
> >> Pi, I've no idea.
> >>
> >> X needs to talk to the GPU better.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> >> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> > Greetings folks;
> >> >
> >> > Running LXDE.
> >> >
> >> > And xset dpms q returns:
> >> > DPMS (Energy Star):
> >> >   Standby: 450Suspend: 600Off: 900
> >> >   DPMS is Enabled
> >> >   Monitor is On
> >> >
> >> > At the end of its report, and the monitor was manually powered down
> >> > when I left the area around 6 pm last night, so it obviously has no
> >> > knowledge of the monitors real status.
> >> >
> >> > Is my install missing some utility X11 thing?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

My workaround is to leave the Pi on and only turn on the monitor when
I sit down at it.  I used to love xscreensaver but it was impractical.
Some of those "hacks" didn't exit cleanly.

pi2# tvservice
Usage: tvservice [OPTION]...
  -p, --preferred   Power on HDMI with preferred settings
  -e, --explicit="GROUP MODE DRIVE" Power on HDMI with explicit GROUP
(CEA, DMT, CEA_3D_SBS, CEA_3D_TB, CEA_3D_FP, CEA_3D_FS)
  MODE (see --modes) and DRIVE (HDMI, DVI)
  -t, --ntscUse NTSC frequency for HDMI mode
(e.g. 59.94Hz rather than 60Hz)
  -c, --sdtvon="MODE ASPECT"Power on SDTV with MODE (PAL or
NTSC) and ASPECT (4:3 14:9 or 16:9)
  -o, --off Power off the display
  -m, --modes=GROUP Get supported modes for GROUP (CEA, DMT)
  -M, --monitor Monitor HDMI events
  -s, --status  Get HDMI status
  -a, --audio   Get supported audio information
  -d, --dumpedid  Dump EDID information to file
  -j, --jsonUse JSON format for --modes output
  -n, --namePrint the device ID from EDID
  -h, --helpPrint this information
pi2#


On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 08 January 2017 12:52:01 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
>> then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
>> think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
>> both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or after
>> a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that.  Never
>> happens though.
>>
> Here it never happens, possibly because the screen savers fawncy graphics
> screen saver stuff never stops. pull the hdmi cable and it displays "no
> signal" in a floating box, and powers down in about 30 secs.
>
>> I installed some extra stuff (maybe, it was 6 months or more ago):
>>
>> pi2# apropos dpms
>> DPMSCapable (3)  - returns the DPMS capability of the X server
>> DPMSDisable (3)  - disables DPMS on the specified display
>> DPMSEnable (3)   - enables DPMS on the specified display
>> DPMSForceLevel (3)   - forces a DPMS capable display into the
>> specified power... DPMSGetTimeouts (3)  - retrieves the timeout values
>> used by the X server for ... DPMSGetVersion (3)   - returns the
>> version of the DPMS extension implemented ... DPMSInfo (3) -
>> returns information about the current DPMS state DPMSQueryExtension
>> (3) - queries the X server to determine the availability o...
>> DPMSSetTimeouts (3)  - permits applications to set the timeout values
>> used by... pi2#
>> Some of those look like functions to be called from C in a program.
>> This is on a Pi 3B under Raspbian Jessie.
>>
>> Searching in the Pi forums for dpms gets a bunch of hits, but
>> different people are looking for different things like how to keep the
>> monitor always on. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/  I wanted to
>> turn it completely off, including the backlight.
>>
> Same here as I want the pi running 24/7 so amanda can back it up in the
> middle of the night.
>> My guess is that it has to do with the GPU and how well X functions
>> are/aren't implemented.  If you're in Raspbian take a look at
>> tvservice (no man page) which seems to be about the only thing that
>> connects to the GPU.  I just did tvservice --off and had to ssh in
>> from another box, short of rebooting.  Backlight was still on though.
> Even for an led backlight, thats a bit of a bummer. The whole monitor
> only uses 11 watts, but it sure advertises that its on.
>
>> Unplugging the monitor's power cord and plugging back in did nothing
>> so it didn't *really* turn the monitor off.  tvservice is also unique
>> in letting you change video modes on the fly, otherwise you need to
>> put a change into /boot/config.txt and reboot.  Straight Debian on a
>> Pi, I've no idea.
>>
>> X needs to talk to the GPU better.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> > Greetings folks;
>> >
>> > Running LXDE.
>> >
>> > And xset dpms q returns:
>> > DPMS (Energy Star):
>> >   Standby: 450Suspend: 600Off: 900
>> >   DPMS is Enabled
>> >   Monitor is On
>> >
>> > At the end of its report, and the monitor was manually powered down
>> > when I left the area around 6 pm last night, so it obviously has no
>> > knowledge of the monitors real status.
>> >
>> > Is my install missing some utility X11 thing?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> > --
>> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> > Genes Web page 
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed H

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 08 January 2017 12:52:01 Alan Corey wrote:

> No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
> then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
> think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
> both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or after
> a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that.  Never
> happens though.
>
Here it never happens, possibly because the screen savers fawncy graphics 
screen saver stuff never stops. pull the hdmi cable and it displays "no 
signal" in a floating box, and powers down in about 30 secs.

> I installed some extra stuff (maybe, it was 6 months or more ago):
>
> pi2# apropos dpms
> DPMSCapable (3)  - returns the DPMS capability of the X server
> DPMSDisable (3)  - disables DPMS on the specified display
> DPMSEnable (3)   - enables DPMS on the specified display
> DPMSForceLevel (3)   - forces a DPMS capable display into the
> specified power... DPMSGetTimeouts (3)  - retrieves the timeout values
> used by the X server for ... DPMSGetVersion (3)   - returns the
> version of the DPMS extension implemented ... DPMSInfo (3) -
> returns information about the current DPMS state DPMSQueryExtension
> (3) - queries the X server to determine the availability o...
> DPMSSetTimeouts (3)  - permits applications to set the timeout values
> used by... pi2#
> Some of those look like functions to be called from C in a program.
> This is on a Pi 3B under Raspbian Jessie.
>
> Searching in the Pi forums for dpms gets a bunch of hits, but
> different people are looking for different things like how to keep the
> monitor always on. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/  I wanted to
> turn it completely off, including the backlight.
>
Same here as I want the pi running 24/7 so amanda can back it up in the 
middle of the night.
> My guess is that it has to do with the GPU and how well X functions
> are/aren't implemented.  If you're in Raspbian take a look at
> tvservice (no man page) which seems to be about the only thing that
> connects to the GPU.  I just did tvservice --off and had to ssh in
> from another box, short of rebooting.  Backlight was still on though.
Even for an led backlight, thats a bit of a bummer. The whole monitor 
only uses 11 watts, but it sure advertises that its on.
 
> Unplugging the monitor's power cord and plugging back in did nothing
> so it didn't *really* turn the monitor off.  tvservice is also unique
> in letting you change video modes on the fly, otherwise you need to
> put a change into /boot/config.txt and reboot.  Straight Debian on a
> Pi, I've no idea.
>
> X needs to talk to the GPU better.

Agreed.

> On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Greetings folks;
> >
> > Running LXDE.
> >
> > And xset dpms q returns:
> > DPMS (Energy Star):
> >   Standby: 450Suspend: 600Off: 900
> >   DPMS is Enabled
> >   Monitor is On
> >
> > At the end of its report, and the monitor was manually powered down
> > when I left the area around 6 pm last night, so it obviously has no
> > knowledge of the monitors real status.
> >
> > Is my install missing some utility X11 thing?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Alan Corey]

No luck with that here either, it would be very handy to have.  But
then I'm using an HDMI->VGA adapter and my monitor is ancient.  I
think the standard was that when horizontal and vertical sync pulses
both go away the monitor's supposed to immediately switch off or after
a delay period.  An adapter shouldn't interfere with that.  Never
happens though.

I installed some extra stuff (maybe, it was 6 months or more ago):

pi2# apropos dpms
DPMSCapable (3)  - returns the DPMS capability of the X server
DPMSDisable (3)  - disables DPMS on the specified display
DPMSEnable (3)   - enables DPMS on the specified display
DPMSForceLevel (3)   - forces a DPMS capable display into the specified power...
DPMSGetTimeouts (3)  - retrieves the timeout values used by the X server for ...
DPMSGetVersion (3)   - returns the version of the DPMS extension implemented ...
DPMSInfo (3) - returns information about the current DPMS state
DPMSQueryExtension (3) - queries the X server to determine the availability o...
DPMSSetTimeouts (3)  - permits applications to set the timeout values used by...
pi2#
Some of those look like functions to be called from C in a program.
This is on a Pi 3B under Raspbian Jessie.

Searching in the Pi forums for dpms gets a bunch of hits, but
different people are looking for different things like how to keep the
monitor always on. https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/  I wanted to
turn it completely off, including the backlight.

My guess is that it has to do with the GPU and how well X functions
are/aren't implemented.  If you're in Raspbian take a look at
tvservice (no man page) which seems to be about the only thing that
connects to the GPU.  I just did tvservice --off and had to ssh in
from another box, short of rebooting.  Backlight was still on though.
Unplugging the monitor's power cord and plugging back in did nothing
so it didn't *really* turn the monitor off.  tvservice is also unique
in letting you change video modes on the fly, otherwise you need to
put a change into /boot/config.txt and reboot.  Straight Debian on a
Pi, I've no idea.

X needs to talk to the GPU better.

On 1/8/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Greetings folks;
>
> Running LXDE.
>
> And xset dpms q returns:
> DPMS (Energy Star):
>   Standby: 450Suspend: 600Off: 900
>   DPMS is Enabled
>   Monitor is On
>
> At the end of its report, and the monitor was manually powered down when
> I left the area around 6 pm last night, so it obviously has no knowledge
> of the monitors real status.
>
> Is my install missing some utility X11 thing?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

xset +dpms is not controlling monitor powerdown on raspberry pi 3b

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings folks;

Running LXDE.

And xset dpms q returns:
DPMS (Energy Star):
  Standby: 450Suspend: 600Off: 900
  DPMS is Enabled
  Monitor is On

At the end of its report, and the monitor was manually powered down when 
I left the area around 6 pm last night, so it obviously has no knowledge 
of the monitors real status.

Is my install missing some utility X11 thing?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page