Re: Bug#906016: transition: gjs built with mozjs60

[Simon McVittie]

Control: block -1 by 923694

On Sat, 02 Mar 2019 at 22:21:31 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 at 10:16:56 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > > > * Require task-gnome-desktop to be installable on s390x, but modify
> > > >   meta-gnome3 so that on s390x, gnome-core installs something that is 
> > > > not
> > > >   the full GNOME 3 desktop used on other architectures, for example
> > > >   the GNOME-2-derived gnome-session-flashback
> 
> In the absence of other progress, I've staged this in git. I'll release
> it soon if nobody else in the team gets there first.

This has now reached testing, but gjs is blocked by gnome-documents:

trying: polari gjs gnome-shell gdm3 gnome-sushi
skipped: polari gjs gnome-shell gdm3 gnome-sushi (0, 1, 25)
got: 33+0: a-1:a-0:a-0:a-0:i-30:m-0:m-0:m-0:p-0:s-2
* s390x: gnome-documents

gnome-documents already has an unblock request.

If that unblock is rejected or if the release team are not sure about
it yet, the gnome-documents_3.30.0-1_s390x binary could be forcibly
removed from testing, which I think would let the gjs family migrate.
`dak rm -R -n -s testing -a s390x gnome-documents` says nothing else on
s390x depends on gnome-documents any more.

smcv

Processed: retitle 923975 to tasks should not recommend removed packages

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> retitle 923975 tasks should not recommend removed packages
Bug #923975 [src:tasksel] task files should not recommend removed packages
Changed Bug title to 'tasks should not recommend removed packages' from 'task 
files should not recommend removed packages'.
> thanks
Stopping processing here.

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Bug#915370: Please drop anacron from task-desktop

[Simon McVittie]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2019 at 17:07:18 -0400, David Bremner wrote:
> Holger Wansing  writes:
> > Are there still many packages, that don't rely on systemd timer units?
> 
> Presumably packages that work without systemd, but still need to
> periodic activity?

Default installations of Debian boot with systemd, and if a sysadmin
chooses to switch to another init system, it's up to them to replace
its functionality (or at least the parts of its functionality they
want). Needing to install anacron in addition to sysvinit seems
reasonable.

Maybe task-desktop should depend on systemd-sysv | anacron?

On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 at 07:34:23 +0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
> anacron is AFAICS not running as a service (at least not all the time), it is
> started by cron (or systemd) every hours and exits just after.

You're right that it isn't a daemon, and isn't running all the time. It
does result in systemd or cron waking up every hour and making noise in
the syslog even if there is nothing to be done, though.

On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 at 10:24:28 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> The output of "ls /etc/cron.daily" is not empty for me.

That doesn't *necessarily* mean you need anacron, or even cron. Many
cron jobs now have a corresponding systemd timer; if you are running
systemd, the cron job starts, detects that it is unnecessary, and exits,
which is an overly-complicated way to do nothing.

For example, if I understand correctly, anacron was initially added to
the GNOME metapackage (and later to task-desktop) for logrotate, but
/etc/cron.daily/logrotate now starts with:

# skip in favour of systemd timer
if [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then
exit 0
fi

In a more opinionated distribution the solution would have been "require
systemd, rely on systemd timers, delete cron jobs, move on", but Debian
still supports non-systemd init as a non-default installation, and
anacron/cron don't have a built-in way to skip particular cron jobs other
than open-coding it in the cron job itself.

Regards,
smcv

Bug#915370: Please drop anacron from task-desktop

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 09:47:34AM +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2019 at 17:07:18 -0400, David Bremner wrote:
> > Holger Wansing  writes:
> > > Are there still many packages, that don't rely on systemd timer units?
> > 
> > Presumably packages that work without systemd, but still need to
> > periodic activity?
> 
> Default installations of Debian boot with systemd, and if a sysadmin
> chooses to switch to another init system, it's up to them to replace
> its functionality (or at least the parts of its functionality they
> want). Needing to install anacron in addition to sysvinit seems
> reasonable.

Yeah, but it's not something that should require a manual action --
especially considering that implementing this well is easy.

> Maybe task-desktop should depend on systemd-sysv | anacron?

Right, but with the reversed order.  This might be a bit unobvious, but:
• on all systemd installs, the dependency is moot (no matter the order)
• on non-systemd, your ordering would make apt try to switch inits instead
  of pulling in anacron
• the only case where non-first dependencies are ignored, B-Deps on official
  buildds, doesn't matter for a task package
 
> That doesn't *necessarily* mean you need anacron, or even cron. Many
> cron jobs now have a corresponding systemd timer; if you are running
> systemd, the cron job starts, detects that it is unnecessary, and exits,
> which is an overly-complicated way to do nothing.

Which raises a question: why would we want that redundant systemd timer?
The cron job can serve everyone, timer only systemd users.  Twice the work,
twice as many configurations to test -- for no gain.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Have you accepted Khorne as your lord and saviour?
⠈⠳⣄

Bug#915370: Please drop anacron from task-desktop

[Adrian Bunk]

> On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 at 10:24:28 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > The output of "ls /etc/cron.daily" is not empty for me.
> 
> That doesn't *necessarily* mean you need anacron, or even cron. Many
> cron jobs now have a corresponding systemd timer; if you are running
> systemd, the cron job starts, detects that it is unnecessary, and exits,
> which is an overly-complicated way to do nothing.
>...

many != all

Something will break (like in the mlocate case), and people might only 
start noticing when they are doing fresh installs of buster after the 
release.

For buster it is too late in the release cycle for sorting this out 
properly for all existing daily/weekly/monthly cronjobs.

> Regards,
> smcv

cu
Adrian

-- 

   "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

Re: Bug#906016: transition: gjs built with mozjs60

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

On 08/03/2019 10:07, Simon McVittie wrote:
> Control: block -1 by 923694
> 
> On Sat, 02 Mar 2019 at 22:21:31 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 at 10:16:56 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> * Require task-gnome-desktop to be installable on s390x, but modify
>   meta-gnome3 so that on s390x, gnome-core installs something that is not
>   the full GNOME 3 desktop used on other architectures, for example
>   the GNOME-2-derived gnome-session-flashback
>>
>> In the absence of other progress, I've staged this in git. I'll release
>> it soon if nobody else in the team gets there first.
> 
> This has now reached testing, but gjs is blocked by gnome-documents:
> 
> trying: polari gjs gnome-shell gdm3 gnome-sushi
> skipped: polari gjs gnome-shell gdm3 gnome-sushi (0, 1, 25)
> got: 33+0: a-1:a-0:a-0:a-0:i-30:m-0:m-0:m-0:p-0:s-2
> * s390x: gnome-documents
> 
> gnome-documents already has an unblock request.
> 
> If that unblock is rejected or if the release team are not sure about
> it yet, the gnome-documents_3.30.0-1_s390x binary could be forcibly
> removed from testing, which I think would let the gjs family migrate.
> `dak rm -R -n -s testing -a s390x gnome-documents` says nothing else on
> s390x depends on gnome-documents any more.

I unblocked and aged gnome-{documents,books}, my britney test run has gjs
migrating now, so it should happen in the next few hours.

Cheers,
Emilio

Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[Ian Jackson]

Package: task-desktop
Version: 3.49

The rationale for this change is IMO not correct.

Michael Biebl  wrote:
| all important cron jobs have a corresponding .timer unit

This is not a sufficient condition.  Firstly, it is necessary for all
cron jobs, not just ones considered `important', to have a
corresponding timer unit, for this change to be correct.

Secondly, this change simply breaks systems without systemd.  If
(which I deny) it is a good idea to change this for systemd systems,
measures should be taken to arrange that non-systemd systems still get
anacron.  For example, a dependency on   systemd-sysv | anacron

(Thirdly, and tangentially, for reasons explored further in the
debian-devel thread, systemd timer units are not a suitable
replacement for many applications.)

Also I think that when changes are being made which might break
non-systemd systems, the Debian Ecosystem Init Diversity team
 debian-init-divers...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
should be consulted so that the appropriate fixes can be developed.

Finally, this change is rather late wrt the freeze.

Ian.

-- 
Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Ian Jackson  wrote:
> Package: task-desktop
> Version: 3.49
> 
> The rationale for this change is IMO not correct.
> 
> Michael Biebl  wrote:
> | all important cron jobs have a corresponding .timer unit
> 
> This is not a sufficient condition.  Firstly, it is necessary for all
> cron jobs, not just ones considered `important', to have a
> corresponding timer unit, for this change to be correct.
> 
> Secondly, this change simply breaks systems without systemd.  If
> (which I deny) it is a good idea to change this for systemd systems,
> measures should be taken to arrange that non-systemd systems still get
> anacron.  For example, a dependency on   systemd-sysv | anacron
> 
> (Thirdly, and tangentially, for reasons explored further in the
> debian-devel thread, systemd timer units are not a suitable
> replacement for many applications.)
> 
> Also I think that when changes are being made which might break
> non-systemd systems, the Debian Ecosystem Init Diversity team
>  debian-init-divers...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
> should be consulted so that the appropriate fixes can be developed.

I tend to follow this proposal (also looking at the corresponding
discussion on d-devel).

> Finally, this change is rather late wrt the freeze.

Since this is just a revert of a recent change, this can be considered
causing no harm.


Any objections?
kibi?


Holger



-- 
Holger Wansing 
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

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base-installer_1.187_source.changes ACCEPTED into unstable

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Accepted:

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 19:02:56 +0100
Source: base-installer
Architecture: source
Version: 1.187
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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Install System Team 
Changed-By: Holger Wansing 
Changes:
 base-installer (1.187) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Team upload
 .
   [ Cyril Brulebois ]
   * Drop all references to ixp4xx, support has been dropped.
   * Drop all references to iop32x, support has been dropped.
 .
   [ Updated translations ]
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Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[john doe]

On 3/8/2019 7:17 PM, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ian Jackson  wrote:
>> Package: task-desktop
>> Version: 3.49
>>
>> The rationale for this change is IMO not correct.
>>
>> Michael Biebl  wrote:
>> | all important cron jobs have a corresponding .timer unit
>>
>> This is not a sufficient condition.  Firstly, it is necessary for all
>> cron jobs, not just ones considered `important', to have a
>> corresponding timer unit, for this change to be correct.
>>
>> Secondly, this change simply breaks systems without systemd.  If
>> (which I deny) it is a good idea to change this for systemd systems,
>> measures should be taken to arrange that non-systemd systems still get
>> anacron.  For example, a dependency on   systemd-sysv | anacron
>>
>> (Thirdly, and tangentially, for reasons explored further in the
>> debian-devel thread, systemd timer units are not a suitable
>> replacement for many applications.)
>>
>> Also I think that when changes are being made which might break
>> non-systemd systems, the Debian Ecosystem Init Diversity team
>>  debian-init-divers...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
>> should be consulted so that the appropriate fixes can be developed.
>
> I tend to follow this proposal (also looking at the corresponding
> discussion on d-devel).
>
>> Finally, this change is rather late wrt the freeze.
>
> Since this is just a revert of a recent change, this can be considered
> causing no harm.
>
>
> Any objections?
> kibi?
>

I'm probably missing something here, this change have never had the
green light to go ahead in the first place.

--
John Doe

Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[Cyril Brulebois]

Hi Holger,

Holger Wansing  (2019-03-08):
> Since this is just a revert of a recent change, this can be considered
> causing no harm.
> 
> Any objections?
> kibi?

Sure, a revert looks good indeed; thanks!


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


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Processed: Re: Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing control commands:

> tags -1 + pending
Bug #924037 [task-desktop] Please add anacron back to task-desktop and 
task-laptop
Added tag(s) pending.

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Bug#924037: Please add anacron back to task-desktop and task-laptop

[Holger Wansing]

Control: tags -1 + pending


Cyril Brulebois  wrote:
> Hi Holger,
> 
> Holger Wansing  (2019-03-08):
> > Since this is just a revert of a recent change, this can be considered
> > causing no harm.
> > 
> > Any objections?
> > kibi?
> 
> Sure, a revert looks good indeed; thanks!

Just committed.
Tagging this bug as pending



Holger


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Processed: reopening 915370

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> reopen 915370
Bug #915370 {Done: Holger Wansing } [task-desktop] Please 
drop anacron from task-desktop and task-laptop
'reopen' may be inappropriate when a bug has been closed with a version;
all fixed versions will be cleared, and you may need to re-add them.
Bug reopened
No longer marked as fixed in versions tasksel/3.49.
> thanks
Stopping processing here.

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Bug#923975: task files should not recommend removed packages

[Holger Wansing]

Control: tags -1 + pending

Wolfgang Schweer  wrote:
> 
> while working at Debian Edu installation media I noticed that various
> tasks are recommending packages that are not (or no longer) available:
> 
> task-catalan-desktop:myspell-ca (see also: #910615)
> task-chinese-s:  fortune-zh
> task-finnish-desktop:xul-ext-mozvoikko
> task-french: doc-linux-fr-text, doc-debian-fr
> task-greek-desktop:  fonts-mgopen (see also: #823150)
> task-gujarati-kde-desktop:   kde-l10n-gu
> task-hungarian-desktop:  libreoffice-thesausus-hu
> task-italian-desktop:myspell-it
> task-kannada-kde-desktop:kde-l10n-kn
> task-kurdish-desktop:libreoffice-l10n-ku, myspell-ku
> task-lithuanian-desktop: myspell-lt
> task-macedonian-kde-desktop: kde-l10n-mk
> task-malayalam-kde-desktop:  kde-l10n-ml
> task-polish: doc-linux-pl, doc-linux-pl-html
> task-sinhala-kde-desktop:kde-l10n-si
> task-slovenian-desktop:  myspell-sl
> task-spanish:doc-debian-es
> task-thai-desktop:   myspell-th
> task-thai-kde-desktop:   kde-l10n-th
> task-ukrainian:  doc-debian-uk
> task-vietnamese-kde-desktop: kde-l10n-vi
> 
> Also, while at it: some inconsistency?
> 
> --- a/debian-tasks.desc   2019-03-07 19:20:48.179994586 +0100
> +++ b/debian-tasks.desc   2019-03-07 19:28:48.227824535 +0100
> @@ -1278,7 +1278,7 @@
>  Enhances: kde-desktop, ukrainian-desktop
>  Section: l10n
>  
> -Task: sinhala-desktop
> +Task: uyghur-desktop
>  Key: 
>task-uyghur-desktop
>  Enhances: desktop

All fixed in git.
Thanks Wolfgang

Tagging this bug as pending


Holger


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Processed: Re: Bug#923975: task files should not recommend removed packages

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Processing control commands:

> tags -1 + pending
Bug #923975 [src:tasksel] tasks should not recommend removed packages
Added tag(s) pending.

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