Request to support KDE as first-class citizen in Debian and add GNOME3 as technical-preview
Hello, The debian-installer defaults to GNOME, which is a bit sad for KDE users alike. Currently d-i supports KDE, but on the standard Debian DVD media bootloader, it is buried quite deep. I'd like to see KDE and GNOME supported on an equal footing in Debian. openSUSE's Yast gives equal footing to top-tier desktop environments. [ ]-KDE4 [ ]-GNOME [ ]-Extra environments One advantage is that both KDE and GNOME are supported on the same level. Another advantage is that it allows to put 'technical preview' into stable distro. openSUSE 11.0 had a though choice - KDE3 (mature) or KDE 4.0 (which was immature at the time) So they added both options: [ ]-KDE3 [ ]-KDE4[ ]-GNOME Fedora 9 didn't had the KDE3 option, so many frustrated KDE users moved to openSUSE during early KDE4 fiasco. The same problem now happens with Debian Wheezy which will have to decide for GNOME3 or GNOME2. But with improved d-i it would be possible to include *both*, and call GNOME3 'technical preview'. Wheezy could look like: [ ]-KDE [ ]-GNOME2 [ ]-GNOME3 (technical preview) [Extra environments] button GNOME3 largely shares the problem of early KDE4 -- too big change to swallow by many (GNOME2) users. I understand this will toss packages on the DVDs, but still it looks like a good idea. Thanks in advance,-- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=hj+ac50pkutr_hqtthzrz5m5sgyosrcmdpfcedp1k...@mail.gmail.com
Debian Installer preseed - Feedback on real-use case
Hi, I developed Debian-preseed scripts to install Debian 6 on VirtualBox. link: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=46798 Good news: Debian preseed is found to be powerful & capable of handling this task. Thanks to my work, today you can install Debian6-on-Debian6 (inside VirtualBox) in 10 minutes, 42 seconds (including KDE). Automatically !..and drink coffee. Bad news: It is much more complex than necessary. I had to jump though hoops to make Debian work. There are many under-water stones that exist for such complex scenarios: === 1. GTK-based frontend doesn't work with preseed. === My isolinux.cfg: default debian prompt 0 timeout 1 label debian kernel /install.$arch/vmlinuz append initrd=/install.$arch/initrd.gz debian-installer/locale=en_US console-setup/layoutcode=us netcfg/choose_interface=auto priority=critical preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg -- #append video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr vga=788 initrd=/install.$arch/gtk/initrd.gz debian-installer/locale=en_US console-setup/layoutcode=us netcfg/choose_interface=auto priority=critical preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg -- When I activated the GTK-based debian installer "gtk/initrd.gz", the GUI booted up, but it started to ask unnecessary questions about keyboard layout, and more... (it should not, as I provided them in the command line) Expected Result: GTK-based d-i should not ask any more questions than ncurses-based d-i does. === 2. Debian does not loads "preseed.cfg" automatically. === Positive Example: Windows XP -- once you boot the OS from CD, it check floppy disk for "winnt.sif", and if present, it installs automatically according to this unattended script; else manual installer starts. Real-world result: I had to create re-master custom Debian DVD on-the-fly (using scripting). It includes only 4 files: linux isolinux.bin isolinux.cfg initrd This problem is shared with Red Hat and SUSE distros. Expected Result: Bootloader (ISOLINUX?) should check for presence of "preseed.cfg" in floppy/USB disk/CDROM, and if present, start kernel + this script automatically. I'm not sure if it is possible to fix. in Windows case, the bootloader (Win NT LDR) loads NT kernel, which does this check on boot. Any ideas ? === 3. Debian fails to load "preseed.cfg" from 2nd CDROM === In my isolinux.cfg, I tried: preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed.cfg preseed/file=/cdrom0/preseed.cfg preseed/file=/cdrom1/preseed.cfg ... no go. It can't read. Works this way: (from floppy) preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg Real-world result: I had to create virtual floppy image with "preseed.cfg". Red Hat and SUSE do not suffer from this issue. Expected Result: preseed/file=/cdromX/preseed.cfg Users should be able to load preseed.cfg from 1st or 2nd CD-ROM. === 4. Debian preseed/late_command is a nightmare === late_command doesn't support new lines, which makes writing built-in embedded scripts difficult. preseed.cfg -- look for late_command scripting: http://pastebin.com/aDMgyag1 Look equivalent script in Red Hat kickstart: http://pastebin.com/jEvJkfCL Red Hat kickstart way: cat > /tmp/mywork.sh < /tmp/mywork.sh echo 'echo "Hello World Again !"' >> /tmp/mywork.sh echo 'echo "Hello World Yet Again !"' >> /tmp/mywork.sh Debian's preseed/late_command is basically unreadable. Real-world result: Debian scripts take longer to write, and are difficult to maintain / read / update. Expected Result: Please provide a better embedded scripting options inside d-i. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=fzec_eoo1oyvyke9l0y19bmrohf8gc4bis2nnb6gm...@mail.gmail.com
Request to support KDE as first-class citizen in Debian and add GNOME3 as technical-preview
[second post] Hello, The debian-installer defaults to GNOME, which is a bit sad for KDE users alike. Currently d-i supports KDE, but on the standard Debian DVD media bootloader, it is buried quite deep. I'd like to see KDE and GNOME supported on an equal footing in Debian. openSUSE's Yast gives equal footing to top-tier desktop environments. [ ]-KDE4 [ ]-GNOME [ ]-Extra environments One advantage is that both KDE and GNOME are supported on the same level. Another advantage is that it allows to put 'technical preview' into stable distro. openSUSE 11.0 had a though choice - KDE3 (mature) or KDE 4.0 (which was immature at the time) So they added both options: [ ]-KDE3 [ ]-KDE4[ ]-GNOME Fedora 9 didn't had the KDE3 option, so many frustrated KDE users moved to openSUSE during early KDE4 fiasco. The same problem now happens with Debian Wheezy which will have to decide for GNOME3 or GNOME2. But with improved d-i it would be possible to include *both*, and call GNOME3 'technical preview'. Wheezy could look like: [ ]-KDE [ ]-GNOME2 [ ]-GNOME3 (technical preview) [Extra environments] button GNOME3 largely shares the problem of early KDE4 -- too big change to swallow by many (GNOME2) users. I understand this will toss packages on the DVDs, but still it looks like a good idea. Thanks in advance, -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=ELmFWtmDyyD_b77yd1RW_bQ2ZN=9vchkny8mjx4hy...@mail.gmail.com
Fwd: Debian-Stable and KDE crashes
-- Forwarded message -- From: Alexey Eromenko Date: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:26 AM Subject: Debian-Stable and KDE crashes To: debian-user It turns out, that Debian-stable (6.0.3, both i386 and AMD64) has constant KDE crashes, by default. Due to bug in konqueror-nsplugins: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=549309 What to do? I would like to up priority to critical for this package, so that it either gets fixed or at least avoid installing it by default, in the next point release. Having default KDE crashing on users is 100% unacceptable. (part of the reason is me to blame; I was not Debian user before 6.0, so didn't test before release) How to up the bug priority ? Any good ideas? Is "debian-boot" the appropriate place for discussion of default Debian KDE install? If not, where? -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=fclyduenqhek3kauppkfhegoyydkyktqxcqmmp1r8...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#655841: Please remove Gnash from default Debian install, as it crashes
Package: debian-installer Version: 20110106+squeeze3+b1 Severity: important Default Debian-6 KDE installs "gnash", an extremely unstable component, that constantly crashes KDE Konqueror, when user accesses any flash-enabled website (such as www.amd.com). This makes for very bad newbie user experience, and may drive users away. I suggest to remove this component from the default Debian KDE installs until it becomes stable. (starting with the next point release, 6.0.4) Related bugs: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=549309 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=655839 NOTE: I'm not sure this bug must be opened against "debian-installer", but I can't seem to find any better alternative. I am using Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 on AMD64 (also tried i386) -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=Hv5LDNugRuO=dlnhfmgn-+0frjeswnrl9+nbahmll...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Debian-Stable and KDE crashes
Upstream package is clearly unstable in this case, and no reason to push it into debian stable, esp. for default install. Pushing "gnash" is like pushing an alpha version of pulseaudio into Debian-stable. (something that Fedora does happily, but simply NOT appropriate behavior for Debian to do) "gnash" package is unstable, and will probably not be fixed anytime soon. (upstream project had last release 10 months ago, which points at slow development) -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=EvOvo=3cza1mygar8_uoc2rk4hemathy8oc1y2qrh...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#655841: Please remove Gnash from default Debian install, as it crashes
> gnash is not only installed with KDE, from what I see as its > installation is triggerred by the desktop task, that's common to KDE > and GNOME, at least. > > It is triggerred by "browser-plugin-gnash". > > What do you suggest as alternative? I don't think it is a good idea to > not provide any flash-enabled web browser. Unfortunately the Free Software community has not yet developed stable flash player, therefore I suggest to avoid installing _unstable_ software by default. The rule of thumb is to avoid regressions in general, and crashes in particular. If a particular (even necessary) component is not ready it should not be pushed into a default desktop installation. It can be provided with a "BETA" or "technical preview" label for advanced users to install manually. In many cases, the lack of flash player will _improve_ user experience: www.amd.com and www.google.com/finance are two examples; If they detect browser without flash, they give the user static version of the content. With gnash -- it just crash. Therefore I suggest to remove "gnash" from the "desktop-task", and put a "BETA" tag in the package description for the near point release (6.0.4). And later make some serious review of this package for Wheezy, before deciding to re-include it by default. (I will help with the testing) -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=HNs=EBz70mDqbgquykn=jlwpigbayjzo6b6cvkcee...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#655841:
Status update: Testing of Gnash. Platform: Debian 6.0.3. (only "main" repo) Test 1 : YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4NCnH7RPZY&feature=g-logo&context=G2ee8eb5FOAA IceWeasel 3.5: WORKS Google Chromium 6: WORKS Konqueror: CRASH Test 2 : Google Finance http://www.google.com/finance?q=EURUSD IceWeasel 3.5: FAILS (gray rectangle) Google Chromium 6: FAILS (gray rectangle) Konqueror: CRASH Bottom line: Removing "Gnash" gives at least static data on Google Finance, and solves konqueror crash, at the expense of YouTube (with IceWeasel and Chromium). Removing "konqueror-nsplugins" solves konqueror crash, but does not solve the Google Finance issues with Gnash. In essence: We have 2 bugs with "gnash": Konqueror browser and Google finance incompatibility. "Maturity problems" -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=E_q4E9tRk4fk9CH=Fket==xw7zx5dal6u_noihl_a...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#655841:
Proposed patch: "tasksel-proposed-6.0.4.patch" It moves "gnash" from "desktop" to "gnome-desktop", so it has least effect on Debian-as-a-whole. Effects: A. Effects on Debian: 1. should be zero. Should not affect installation media. B. Effects on GNOME desktop: None. 1. People will have YouTube (as in 6.0.3) 2. People will not have access to Google Finance (as in 6.0.3) C. Effects on KDE and other desktops: 1. no KDE konqueror crashes by default 2. People will have access to Google Finance (static version) 3. People will need to install some kind of flash plugin manually to watch YouTube (no WebM support in Squeeze) It turns out, that "gnome" package has dependency on "gnash", so I will not go deep into this. It's up to the gnome people to look into this -- I left gnome as-is, unchanged. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" diff -uNr orig/tasksel//tasks/desktop patched/tasksel//tasks/desktop --- orig/tasksel//tasks/desktop 2010-12-05 19:48:52.0 +0200 +++ patched/tasksel//tasks/desktop 2012-01-16 07:40:54.0 +0200 @@ -62,8 +62,5 @@ # sound alsa-utils alsa-base -# flash -- Note that gnome recommends browser-plugin-gnash; if this is changed -# here to a different flash player, it should also be changed there. - browser-plugin-gnash # ensure pm-utils is available pm-utils diff -uNr orig/tasksel//tasks/gnome-desktop patched/tasksel//tasks/gnome-desktop --- orig/tasksel//tasks/gnome-desktop 2010-12-06 22:32:00.0 +0200 +++ patched/tasksel//tasks/gnome-desktop 2012-01-16 07:40:54.0 +0200 @@ -34,3 +34,6 @@ xsane # vector drawing inkscape +# flash -- Note that gnome recommends browser-plugin-gnash; if this is changed +# here to a different flash player, it should also be changed there. + browser-plugin-gnash
Bug#686226: [FATAL] Wheezy Debian installer fails on Qosmio hardware
Package: debian-installer Version: 20120712 Severity: serious Hi, I'm trying to install Debian from Wheezy DVD (BETA1) on amd64. (Qosmio X300-130 laptop). Actual Result: It fails during the "Detect network hardware" phase. Ie. stops progressing, and no way to skip this stage. and in console (F4) it complains about the lack of iwl Intel Wireless firmware and missing eth1394 (Firewire Ethernet). Expected Result: Should proceed without problematic firmware or drivers. Debian 6.0 works great on this same hardware. (installed from amd64 DVD) -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=EKwrniVrHngdjH0B_cSsKKjSe5Gz+DnJ6Nfs=5tud...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#697372: Please add 32-bit compatibility to amd64 Debian desktops *by default*
Package: tasksel Version: 3.14 Dear developers, 32-bit programs, such as FireFox refuse to work on Debian 7.0 64-bit (amd64). This issue is well documented in the Bug#697270: "PC 32-bit programs fails to work on amd64". It turns out, that default Debian 7.0 64-bit does not include 32-bit libraries. I ask you to include LSB 32-bit libraries on amd64 systems, if the user chooses "Desktop environment". Because this issue will hit desktop users the most. Lots of popular programs ship in 32-bit by default (such as forementioned FireFox from mozilla.org) I am using amd64 Debian GNU/Linux 7.0, kernel 3.2. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=h7fton4g6jeltdmwnsg-5oqwvzxab2pjwcwf7hhx8...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
Package: debian-installer Version: 20150422 Hi, in older versions of Debian (6.x and 7.x), I could load preseed script from floppy, and it would work. I had to change isolinux / bootloader with "preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg": label debian kernel /install.$arch/vmlinuz append initrd=/install.$arch/initrd.gz debian-installer/locale=en_US keymap=us console-setup/layoutcode=us netcfg/choose_interface=auto priority=critical preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg -- Debian 8 returns me "Failed to retrieve the preconfiguration file" error, with exactly the same setup. I need this feature to enable unattended install of Debian 8 VM in VirtualBox (vbox-unattended feature), where preseed script gets loaded from virtual floppy. https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=46798 Working with "debian-8.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso". Official Jessie 8.0 Debian installer. Please fix "preseed/file=/floppy/preseed.cfg": As a separate, but related question: is it possible to load preseed script from 2nd CDROM ? (IDE Secondary Slave, or SATA 2nd CD...) I tried "preseed/file=/cdrom2/preseed.cfg", but it didn't work. Thanks in advance, -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov", 01.May.2015. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=Hf83bKt26g6y4=rynnvimc76uuquxbbcqgamnzgqc...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
You said > "I think you are looking for providing a preseed file, hence my advice https://www.google.nl/search?q=virtualbox+host+http+server+for+guests"; 1. You're correct in that I'm looking to provide preseed file. But host-side HTTP server won't work for my needs, unless VirtualBox has it integrated. My technology is aimed at people, who require *zero* configuration, and should work across all hosts. Like click, click, click... Basically I need very minimal (and portable) host-side logic (and move as much complexity into the guest as possible). You said: "Do an "attended install". Verify that reading from floppy is possible. That is important. It proofs that the Virtualbox host provides a "floppy disk controller" and that the Vbox guest has a kernel kernel for the f.d.c. Also it shows there is /dev/fd0 (IIRC)" 2. Well... you'r right ! /dev/fd0 is the problem ! Yes, I ensured, that VM has floppy controller configured, plus floppy.img inserted. Debian 8 (mini-)kernel (inside amd64-DVD) does NOT see /dev/fd0 ! (part of debian-installer); This works just fine with Debian 6 and 7 ! Post-install Debian 8 kernel _does_ see /dev/fd0, can loop-mount and can read files from it. (after installing from Debian 8 amd64-DVD), so no problem here. The natural question: Are those kernels different ? (I always assumed it is the *same* kernel) It seems the mini-kernel does not provide me with "/proc/config.gz", so I have no clue what's included and what's excluded. How can I check ? Thanks for finding the problem ! -Alexey -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=FhhmQgctLZ7RCjHt3gerWH3qz9cAbNoLx=irwtmk9...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
I have created /dev/fd0 via. # mknod /dev/fd0 b 2 0 # mkdir floppy Results: mknod never reported any problem, But (!) # mount /dev/fd0 floppy Works in Debian 7 (d-i), and fails in Debain 8 (d-i) with message: mount: mounting /dev/fd0 on floppy failed: No such device or address -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=hz3kmbebf-z37m9ontnbzdp8o5n56sg67lyesri67...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
I have extracted initrd from all 3 medias: Debian(6,7,8)-amd64-DVD, alexey@deb6-xrig:~/debian6-auto/bootiso/install.amd/tmp2$ find . | grep ko | grep floppy ./lib/modules/2.6.32-5-amd64/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko alexey@deb6-xrig:~/debian7-auto/bootiso/install.amd/tmp2$ find . | grep ko | grep floppy ./lib/modules/3.2.0-4-amd64/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko alexey@deb6-xrig:~/debian8-auto/bootiso/install.amd/tmp2$ find . | grep ko | grep floppy alexey@deb6-xrig:~/debian8-auto/bootiso/install.amd/tmp2$ Basically we have a proof, that Debian 8 d-i kernel lacks "drivers/block/floppy.ko" module. Which causes the problem. Now what ? Who is responsible for d-i kernels ? Should I open a separate bug ? Thanks for help, -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=flxhockvaicdw6z4spx5srcr9x0aqgnzutjwhkfwb...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
I ask to reverse decision about "floppy-modules", because while physical floppies aren't used in years, this functionality is very much used for virtualization. Like my vbox-unattened patch; Without floppy driver there will not be an automated installer for Debian 8 VMs in VirtualBox. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=GLDET9N-xubU23f0EQ=l4+nvoaigjhpazembsopfk...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
No idea about GNU cpio. Is it compatible with BSD cpio ? I can't easily introduce new dependency for portable code. (host-side must be very portable code) It will require investigation. Besides, this command didn't work for me. (preseed.cfg wasn't added) On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote: > On Sat, 2015-05-02 at 16:50 +0300, Alexey Eromenko wrote: >> I ask to reverse decision about "floppy-modules", because while >> physical floppies aren't used in years, this functionality is very >> much used for virtualization. >> >> Like my vbox-unattened patch; Without floppy driver there will not be >> an automated installer for Debian 8 VMs in VirtualBox. > > You should be able to add the preseed file to the initrd like this: > > echo preseed.cfg | cpio -o -H newc | gzip >> initrd.gz > > Does that not work for you? > > Ben. > > -- > Ben Hutchings > Q. Which is the greater problem in the world today, ignorance or apathy? > A. I don't know and I couldn't care less. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOJ6w=fjt3dbqcpag6z5ssntu27d51hqo69aa+kuzal8fs5...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#783982: D-i: preseed from floppy no longer works !
I'd prefer not to introduce any new dependecies, for portability reasons. Would like to have floppy support back.
