Bug#511287: debian-installer: Should have a task for installing KDE or XFCE instead of Gnome
We may not have a task ATM, but the user *can* choose which desktop to install from the installer's boot menu (for i386/amd64). See: http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/ch06s03.html.en#di-install-software Some CD images (businesscard, netinst and DVD) also allow selection of the desired desktop environment from the graphical boot menu. Select the “Advanced options” option in the main menu and look for “Alternative desktop environments”. This is not ideal, but a lot better than we had for Etch. I agree, it's a lot better and I would like to go further. With Lenny, the option exists but it's hidden in a menu. The rationale for that implementation can be found in this thread: http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2008/12/msg00019.html I'm quoting the main point behind the rationale: [...] [1] A bit of background info. One could wonder why this is being done in the isolinux boot menu rather than during the installation, e.g. in tasksel. The simple reason is that Joey Hess, the lead developer for tasksel, has always been opposed to doing it in tasksel with as main argument that tasksel is mostly for new users who are probably not aware of what DEs exist and thus would only be confused when having to choose between meaningless names as GNOME, KDE, etc. One could argue about the validity of that argument, or about implementing it so that the option would only be available for expert users, but the fact remains that tasksel currently does not support DE selection. But users do regularly keep asking about it. One reason I have chosen to hide DE selection in the Advanced options menu instead of in the main boot menu is to honor Joey's feelings about this: I think that this way it is buried deep enough not to confuse new users, while still being easily enough available to users who go looking for it. Still, the option to support DE selection in the boot menu can be seen as a workaround for the fact that it's missing in tasksel. [...] We should revisit Joey's argument. The posted links about opensuse decision makes me think the argument isn't valid. Another distribution, more desktop oriented and probably more user-friendly than us, gives the choice in his installer. There's still a default value for the new users who are probably not aware of DEs existence. opensuse installer proves their OS can be installed in less than 10 clicks and don't annoy newbies. Aren't we the universal OS ? aren't we a distribution for all ? The main desktops should be considered equal citizens and not give privilege to one of them. Maybe we should ask our users about it and let them express their opinions (a feature tracking system like openFATE), instead of thinking for them (user interaction). It seems my link about seele's blog post is down. Please found below a copy: [...] A recent LWN article (subscription required) on the openSUSE desktop debate has an excellent quote from user Naheem Zaffar: “Choice is only good if you are informed enough to exercise it.” Those of you who may have read Barry Schwartz’ “The Paradox of Choice” may already be familiar with the idea of choice paralysis though information overload. One of the reasons I’ve stayed out of the conversation is that I feel that openSUSE should not offer a choice at all. Not supporting “freedom of choice” is a very controversial position to take in a free software community, but many fail to realise how much “choice” can hurt a user. The current design places a burden on the user. Two options of seemingly equal importance are presented and the user is asked to make a choice. This choice requires the user to be knowledgeable enough about each option to make a decision. Normally, defaults help guide the user in making a decision. Having one selected by default is helpful, but this “hint” is offset by the purposeful neutral presence of an alternative. The list is in alphabetical order and not order of importance and both options have the same visual treatment. How can the user know that the selected option is the best option for them and not simply the first item on the list? This isn’t very user friendly. An argument might be made that this is a good opportunity for openSUSE to help educate users about the technology choices. However, can that really be done in a 150 word paragraph without screenshots or feature lists? Is this something the user wants to do in the middle of an installation process? Providing such a small amount of information might actually increase the burden, because now the user may realise how little they actually know about the choice they are about to make. Additionally, there is evidence which shows that 2/3 of openSUSE’s userbase are not using the current default. Possibly meaning that during 2/3 of openSUSE installations, users must change the default. This seems unnecessary and inefficient and induces an opportunity for users to make a mistake. This doesn’t sound very usable. What to do? I would remove the burden
planning directfb 1.4 transition
(cc'ing related teams) Hi, This is an informative mail. I have uploaded DirectFB 1.4 to experimental. At some point, the transition could be started (after coordination with the related maintainers). I didn't tried myself to rebuild affected packages yet. Thus, quoting upstream: Most software will run out-of-the-box after a recompile. The major changes are listed here: * Functions to rotate windows and layers: IDirectFBDisplayLayer::GetRotation, IDirectFBDisplayLayer::SetRotation and IDirectFBWindow::SetRotation * Functions to alter or initialise keymaps: IDirectFBInputDevice::LoadKeymap and IDirectFBInputDevice::SetKeymapEntry * DWOP_FOLLOW_BOUNDS: make the bounds of a window follow the parent bounds. Note that this requires the SaWMan window manager to function. * DWCAPS_SUBWINDOW: create a subwindow instead of a top-level window. * New pixel format: RGBA * added DFBSurfaceHintFlags to surface creation to optimise e.g. memory allocation. Let me know if there's known blockers. cheers, Fathi ps: please cc me, I'm not subscribed to debian-boot or debian-gtk-gnome lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#511287: debian-installer: Should have a task for installing KDE or XFCE instead of Gnome
Hi, Let's re-discuss the situation as Lenny is released. On another front, the situation changed for opensuse (see my previous mail on the bug report). Below, you'll find some links about it and I think it's the way to go: http://lwn.net/Articles/345139/ http://en.opensuse.org/Image:11_1-install-006.png http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2009-08/msg00548.html and also an interesting point of view: http://weblog.obso1337.org/2009/when-choice-becomes-a-burden/ cheers, Fathi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#511287: debian-installer: Should have a task for installing KDE or XFCE instead of Gnome
Hi,
IMHO, it's too late to change things now for Lenny. But I guess, we'll need to
re-discuss the situation after Lenny release for KDE 4 series.
Especially when I read this:
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3416
and the nice screenshot here:
http://en.opensuse.org/Image:OS11.0beta1-inst7.png
That said, anyone that _has_ heard of KDE should find all they want to
know here:
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde3.html
on the other hand, I'd guess that Debian newbies are most likely to end up
here:
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/
which does not appear to have a direct link to the installing page.
The link exist: on the left, in the menu, under Try KDE!, KDE 3.5 is the
direct link to http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde3.html
KDE Folks,
Might I suggest that the front page be modified to have a link somewhere
prominent, near the top, linking to the page about how to get KDE
installed on debian
Also, you should note that in Lenny the default desktop can be set by
adding:
desktop=kde
at the boot prompt (which you can get to by hitting TAB in the boot
menu.
Also, note that desktop in that case is an alias for
tasksel:tasksel/desktop so it can also be preseeded by providing a line
like:
tasksel tasksel/desktop string kde
in a preseed file, so you could produce custom KDE media either by
tweaking the {sys,iso,pxe}linux.cfg files to include desktop=kde, or by
adding a preseed.cfg to the root of your initrd image, containing the above
line.
Thanks, we will update the instructions for Lenny.
cheers,
Fathi
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Bug#511287: debian-installer: Should have a task for installing KDE or XFCE instead of Gnome
On Friday 09 January 2009 17:18:42 Ana Guerrero wrote: I hope the website is a bit clearer now. Still have to update the instructions for lenny. done. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Freeze exception request for directfb 1.0.1-11
Hi,
Could you please unfreeze libdirectfb 1.0.1-11 ?
It fixes 2 bugs:
- unicode key handling (bug #401296) usefull for Debian graphical installer.
- DirectFb fails to start in usual case (RC bug #493899).
You can found attached the full diff between 1.0.1-9 and 1.0.1-11.
cheers,
Fathi
+directfb (1.0.1-11) unstable; urgency=low
+
+ * Remove 92_reopen_console.patch: it fails in the usual case,
+but works when run through strace. (Closes: #493899)
+
+ -- Fathi Boudra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:42:54 +0200
+
+directfb (1.0.1-10) unstable; urgency=low
+
+ * Add 93_fix_unicode_key_handling.patch: when the library asks the kernel
+for the key symbols, the result are truncated for unicode symbols if the
+keyboard is not in K_UNICODE mode. So, a temporary switch is needed,
+as well as applying the right bitmask in order to retrieve the full
+unicode symbol. Thanks to Jérémy Bobbio. (Closes: #401296)
+ * Now using Standards-Version 3.8.0 (no changes needed).
+
+ -- Fathi Boudra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:49:17 +0200
diff -Nur --exclude=.svn 1.0.1-9/debian/changelog 1.0.1-11/debian/changelog
--- 1.0.1-9/debian/changelog 2008-07-22 18:48:31.0 +0200
+++ 1.0.1-11/debian/changelog 2008-08-18 14:21:43.0 +0200
@@ -1,3 +1,21 @@
+directfb (1.0.1-11) unstable; urgency=low
+
+ * Remove 92_reopen_console.patch: it fails in the usual case,
+but works when run through strace. (Closes: #493899)
+
+ -- Fathi Boudra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:42:54 +0200
+
+directfb (1.0.1-10) unstable; urgency=low
+
+ * Add 93_fix_unicode_key_handling.patch: when the library asks the kernel
+for the key symbols, the result are truncated for unicode symbols if the
+keyboard is not in K_UNICODE mode. So, a temporary switch is needed,
+as well as applying the right bitmask in order to retrieve the full
+unicode symbol. Thanks to Jérémy Bobbio. (Closes: #401296)
+ * Now using Standards-Version 3.8.0 (no changes needed).
+
+ -- Fathi Boudra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:49:17 +0200
+
directfb (1.0.1-9) unstable; urgency=low
* Add cross build support. Thanks to Neil Williams. (Closes: #480933)
diff -Nur --exclude=.svn 1.0.1-9/debian/control 1.0.1-11/debian/control
--- 1.0.1-9/debian/control 2008-07-22 18:48:31.0 +0200
+++ 1.0.1-11/debian/control 2008-08-18 14:21:43.0 +0200
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@
libts-dev [!kfreebsd-i386 !kfreebsd-amd64 !hurd-i386],
libmpeg3-dev, zlib1g-dev, x11proto-core-dev, libx11-dev, libxext-dev,
libsysfs-dev [alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 m68k mips mipsel powerpc ppc64 s390]
-Standards-Version: 3.7.3
+Standards-Version: 3.8.0
Package: libdirectfb-1.0-0
Section: libs
diff -Nur --exclude=.svn 1.0.1-9/debian/patches/92_reopen_console.patch 1.0.1-11/debian/patches/92_reopen_console.patch
--- 1.0.1-9/debian/patches/92_reopen_console.patch 2008-07-22 18:48:31.0 +0200
+++ 1.0.1-11/debian/patches/92_reopen_console.patch 1970-01-01 00:00:00.0 +
@@ -1,167 +0,0 @@
-author: John Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
-when libdirectfb detects zero length reads,
-it attempts to reopen the console
-(possibly from a newly mounted root tree)
-See Debian bug #462626
-
a/systems/fbdev/vt.h
-+++ b/systems/fbdev/vt.h
-@@ -34,7 +34,7 @@
-
- #include directfb.h
-
--typedef struct {
-+typedef struct VirtualTerminal {
- int fd0; /* file descriptor of /dev/tty0 */
- int fd; /* file descriptor of /dev/ttyN
- where N is the number of the allocated VT,
-@@ -56,6 +56,8 @@
- pthread_cond_t wait;
-
- int vt_sig;
-+
-+ DFBResult (*method_open) (struct VirtualTerminal *);
- } VirtualTerminal;
-
- /*
a/systems/fbdev/vt.c
-+++ b/systems/fbdev/vt.c
-@@ -96,6 +96,8 @@
- static void vt_set_fb( int vt, int fb );
- static void *vt_thread( DirectThread *thread, void *arg );
-
-+static DFBResult vt_open (VirtualTerminal *vt);
-+
- DFBResult
- dfb_vt_initialize()
- {
-@@ -219,6 +221,8 @@
- return ret;
- }
-
-+ dfb_vt-method_open = vt_open;
-+
- dfb_fbdev-vt = dfb_vt;
-
- return DFB_OK;
-@@ -439,27 +443,23 @@
- }
-
- static DFBResult
--vt_init_switching()
--{
-- const char cursoroff_str[] = \033[?1;0;0c;
-- const char blankoff_str[] = \033[9;0];
-+vt_open (VirtualTerminal *vt) {
-+
- char buf[32];
-
- D_DEBUG_AT( VT, %s()\n, __FUNCTION__ );
-
-- /* FIXME: Opening the device should be moved out of this function. */
--
-- snprintf(buf, 32, /dev/tty%d, dfb_vt-num);
-- dfb_vt-fd = open( buf, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY );
-- if (dfb_vt-fd 0) {
-+ snprintf(buf, 32, /dev/tty%d, vt-num);
-+ vt-fd = open( buf, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY );
-+ if (vt-fd 0) {
- if (errno == ENOENT) {
-- snprintf(buf, 32, /dev/vc/%d, dfb_vt-num);
-- dfb_vt-fd = open( buf, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY
Please unfreeze libdirectfb 1.0.1-9
Hi, Could you please unfreeze libdirectfb 1.0.1-9 ? It contains cross build support for emdebian, a patch accepted upstream (1) and unblock splashy 0.3.10 to enter Lenny. (1) when libdirectfb detects zero length reads, it attempts to reopen the console (possibly from a newly mounted root tree). cheers, Fathi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: etch/sid amd64 failed to install
Le Jeudi 8 Juin 2006 22:09, Joey Hess a écrit : Goswin von Brederlow wrote: i've got now no codename error ... any workaround ? No idea where that even appears. base-installer can complain about this if cdrom/codename is not set. Only way I can see that happening is if the cd does not contain any Release file. i used last daily build etch netinst (10-jun-2006), choose-mirror seems to download Release file and extract codename fine : choose-mirror: INFO: codename set to: etch followed by : base-installer: error: exiting on error base-installer/no_codename
etch/sid amd64 failed to install
hi, i found a similar thread on may but that doesn't help me. I try to install etch amd64 using netinst daily build and failed on grub installation step : apt-install: Reading package lists... apt-install: Building dependency tree... apt-install: E: apt-install: Package grub has no installation candidate apt-install: Package grub is not available, but is referred to by another package. apt-install: This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source grub-installer: info: Calling `apt-install grub` failed I tried other mirrors same results. Then i looked at : http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are empty. I tried jigdo too : Reusing existing connection to ftp2.fr.debian.org:80. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found 11:47:49 ERROR 404: Not Found. So i couldn't properly build iso image atm. After trying beta2 installer, i've got a new error : error: exiting on error base-installer/no_codename My hardware: Medion laptop CAD2000 AMD64 Any clue, idea, good mirror, something ? :) cheers, Fathi PS: i386 installs fine. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: etch/sid amd64 failed to install
Le Jeudi 8 Juin 2006 13:00, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit : grub-installer: info: Calling `apt-install grub` failed That is because until last night there was no grub in etch. i've got now no codename error ... any workaround ? Fathi
advices/comments on strange graphics with Intel Corp. 82815 CGC reported bug
hi, someone reported this bug : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=302696 I asked on #debian-boot, Eddy Petrisor (eddyp) proposed: maybe cloning the bug is a good idea, one for the X config part, and one for the d-i (though I doubt is d-i itself that is to be blamed and not udev/hotplug) i would like advices/comments from debian-x and debian-installer teams about correct procedure. cheers, Fathi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
