Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
On Wednesday 05 March 2008, Jens Seidel wrote:
> > +The amount of data that will be downloaded if you do select a mirror
> > thus
>
> Drop "do"?
Adding "do" here adds emphasis. Note that "do" would be required if the
sentence were negative ("... if you do not select ..."), so it is
definitely not wrong.
Other comments covered in my reply to Phil's mail.
Thanks,
FJP
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Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
On Thursday 06 March 2008, Philip Hands wrote: > > > If you are installing from a full CD or a DVD that is part of a > > > larger > > > > I would drop the "a" infront of DVD or "full" altogeher. > > I'd rather say that you should drop the full here, since the "is part of > a larger set" implies a full CD anyway, so how about: > > If you are installing from a CD or DVD that is part of a larger set Well, we do normally use full to refer to the these images (see e.g. the D-I page. Basically we have: - businesscard CD - netinst CD - full CD (where full is meant as "not incomplete") - DVD (is indeed technically also a full image as it is not incomplete, but the prefix is not needed to distinguish it as with CDs) I repeated "a" because that does make clear that "full" does not refer to the DVD. But I agree that set implies that we're talking about full CDs, so it could be dropped. > >> +currently in the drive. Note that only CDs or DVDs that belong to the > >> +same set should be scanned. > > > > Really? I should avoid mixing a weekly snapshot of the first 5 CDs with > > older onces of the remaining CDs? Wouldn't it be possible that a > > missing dependency can be resolved on an older disc? > > No -- dependencies are always satisfied on earlier disks, and while > having some older ones tagged on the end might work, it might cause > upset when things on the earlier disks have been upgraded such that they > no longer satisfy later dependencies on the later disks. > > Also, if things on the earlier disks have grown, then some packages will > have fallen off the end of the last new disk you have, but still be > missing on the old one that you might have thought follows it. Yes. Mixing sets is in general a bad idea, unless you know what you're doing or also have a network mirror selected. I don't think we want to suggest to people to do that in the manual though. > I think you have a point here -- how about: > > One advantage of adding a network mirror is that updates that have > occurred since the CD/DVS set was made, and are part of a newer point > release, will become available for installation, thus extending the > life of your CD/DVD set without compromising the security or stability > of the installed system. Right. Used with a few minor modifications. > Other than that, I'm afraid I'd tend to disagree with most of the other > points you made (although well done for putting the effort in). You > appear to be applying grammatical rules in a way that, while perhaps > strictly correct, doesn't end up sounding like natural English (of > course, being English, the only grammar I was ever taught at school was > in Latin & French, so perhaps I'm not qualified to comment on English > grammar ;-) I have made a few other changes based on Jens' comments. Thanks to you both for the review. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jens Seidel wrote: ... > > If you are installing from a full CD or a DVD that is part of a larger > > I would drop the "a" infront of DVD or "full" altogeher. ... I'd rather say that you should drop the full here, since the "is part of a larger set" implies a full CD anyway, so how about: If you are installing from a CD or DVD that is part of a larger set ... >> +currently in the drive. Note that only CDs or DVDs that belong to the >> +same set should be scanned. > > Really? I should avoid mixing a weekly snapshot of the first 5 CDs with > older onces of the remaining CDs? Wouldn't it be possible that a missing > dependency can be resolved on an older disc? No -- dependencies are always satisfied on earlier disks, and while having some older ones tagged on the end might work, it might cause upset when things on the earlier disks have been upgraded such that they no longer satisfy later dependencies on the later disks. Also, if things on the earlier disks have grown, then some packages will have fallen off the end of the last new disk you have, but still be missing on the old one that you might have thought follows it. ... >> +using a network mirror is not required, but is still strongly recommended >> +because a single CD contains only a fairly limited number of packages. > >> +of a network mirror is optional. One advantage of adding a network mirror is >> +that it will make updates of packages in point releases of the distribution > > Please check grammar "in point releases"??? Is just a "available" > missing.? > >> +available for installation. I think you have a point here -- how about: One advantage of adding a network mirror is that updates that have occurred since the CD/DVS set was made, and are part of a newer point release, will become available for installation, thus extending the life of your CD/DVD set without compromising the security or stability of the installed system. Other than that, I'm afraid I'd tend to disagree with most of the other points you made (although well done for putting the effort in). You appear to be applying grammatical rules in a way that, while perhaps strictly correct, doesn't end up sounding like natural English (of course, being English, the only grammar I was ever taught at school was in Latin & French, so perhaps I'm not qualified to comment on English grammar ;-) Finally, one change I spotted: > In most cases you are better of getting ^^ off Cheers, Phil. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHzyYOYgOKS92bmRARAmd9AKClFVW0a6iT9o5v5hMRvinoIAHpFwCffSi6 AJC1yT98zEOFooYDMpUi3eE= =yELI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 03:27:02AM +0100, Frans Pop wrote: > I've updated the section in the installation guide about configuring apt to > describe that it is now possible to scan multiple CDs. > > I'd welcome comments on the new text before I commit the changes. My comments are maybe a little bit too verbose, so ignore anything you do not like ... > +If you are installing from a full CD or a DVD that is part of a larger I would drop the "a" infront of DVD or "full" altogeher. What does "full" stand for? A non netinst or business version of the installer? You know that it is possible to burn such an image also on a DVD, in this case "full" should also apply to DVD. But maybe I understand "full" wrong. > +set, the installer will ask if you want to scan additional CDs or DVDs. > +If you have additional CDs or DVDs available, you probably want to do > +this so the installer can use the packages included on them. > +them is not required. If you also do not use a network mirror (as explained > +in the next section), it can mean that not all packages belonging to the > +tasks you select in the next step of the installation can be installed. you WILL select? > +Packages are included on CDs in the order of their popularity. This means Above you write "CDs or DVDs" here you mention only CDs. > +that for most uses only the first CDs in a set are needed and that only Plural of CD was intended? Maybe "first few CDs" to avoid confusion with "first CD" ... > +very few people actually use any of the packages included on the last CDs > +in a set. > +If you do scan multiple CDs or DVDs, the installer will prompt you to Drop "do" or replace with "will"? > +exchange them when it needs packages from another CD/DVD than the one CD/DVD is used beside "CD or DVD" from above ... > +currently in the drive. Note that only CDs or DVDs that belong to the > +same set should be scanned. Really? I should avoid mixing a weekly snapshot of the first 5 CDs with older onces of the remaining CDs? Wouldn't it be possible that a missing dependency can be resolved on an older disc? > +If you are installing from a full CD or using a full CD image (not DVD), "not DVD" refers only to the image? Otherwise remember that it is indeed possible to burn a CD image on a DVD (lack of empty CDs ...). > +using a network mirror is not required, but is still strongly recommended > +because a single CD contains only a fairly limited number of packages. > +of a network mirror is optional. One advantage of adding a network mirror is > +that it will make updates of packages in point releases of the distribution Please check grammar "in point releases"??? Is just a "available" missing.? > +available for installation. > +In summary: selecting a network mirror is generally a good idea, except s/selecting/Selecting/ ??? > +if you do not have a good Internet connection. If the current version of > +a package is available on the CD/DVD, the installer will always use that. s,the CD/DVD,a CD/DVD, > +The amount of data that will be downloaded if you do select a mirror thus Drop "do"? > +depends on > +which of those packages are present on the CDs or DVDs you have scanned, and > +whether any updated versions of packages included on the CDs or DVDs are Plural of "version" after "any" is OK? > +available from a mirror (either a regular package mirror, or a mirror for > +security or volatile updates). Jens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
On Wednesday 05 March 2008, Christian Perrier wrote: > While writing this, I'm wondering whether we could launch the > -l10n-english fellows on the giant task of reviewing the installation > manual...As I stopped working on Smith reviews temporarily, I > have to keep them busy...:-) I'm not in favor of that, mainly because ATM I have no intention of spending significant amounts of time on reviewing and committing a huge amount of reviews. Also, there are still large parts of the manual that really need a rewrite and a comprehensive review would better be done after that. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Hi, > > I've updated the section in the installation guide about configuring apt to > describe that it is now possible to scan multiple CDs. > > I'd welcome comments on the new text before I commit the changes. I read the entire proposal and found nothing that could deserve a comment. As usual in the install manual, things are well and clearly explained. While writing this, I'm wondering whether we could launch the -l10n-english fellows on the giant task of reviewing the installation manual...As I stopped working on Smith reviews temporarily, I have to keep them busy...:-) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[RFR] Installation Guide - update of apt-setup section for multiple CDs
Hi, I've updated the section in the installation guide about configuring apt to describe that it is now possible to scan multiple CDs. I'd welcome comments on the new text before I commit the changes. A diff of en/using-d-i/modules/apt-setup.xml is attached. The new text can be previewed at: http://people.debian.org/~fjp/tmp/d-i/ch06s03.html. Cheers, FJP Index: en/using-d-i/modules/apt-setup.xml === --- en/using-d-i/modules/apt-setup.xml (revision 51611) +++ en/using-d-i/modules/apt-setup.xml (working copy) @@ -54,14 +54,68 @@ + +Installing from more than one CD or DVD + + + +If you are installing from a full CD or a DVD that is part of a larger +set, the installer will ask if you want to scan additional CDs or DVDs. +If you have additional CDs or DVDs available, you probably want to do +this so the installer can use the packages included on them. + + + +If you do not have any additional CDs or DVDs, that is no problem: using +them is not required. If you also do not use a network mirror (as explained +in the next section), it can mean that not all packages belonging to the +tasks you select in the next step of the installation can be installed. + + + + +Packages are included on CDs in the order of their popularity. This means +that for most uses only the first CDs in a set are needed and that only +very few people actually use any of the packages included on the last CDs +in a set. + + + +It also means that buying or downloading and burning a full CD set is just +a waste of money as you'll never use most of them. In most cases you are +better of getting only the first 3 to 8 CDs and installing any additional +packages you may need from the Internet by using a mirror. +The same goes for DVD sets: the first DVD, or maybe the first two DVDs +will cover most needs. + + + +A good rule of thumb is that for a regular desktop installation (using the +GNOME desktop environment) only the first three CDs are needed. For the +alternative desktop environments (KDE or Xfce), additional CDs are needed. +The first DVD easily covers all three desktop environments. + + + + +If you do scan multiple CDs or DVDs, the installer will prompt you to +exchange them when it needs packages from another CD/DVD than the one +currently in the drive. Note that only CDs or DVDs that belong to the +same set should be scanned. The order in which they are scanned does not +really matter, but scanning them in ascending order will reduce the chance +of mistakes. + + + + Using a network mirror -One question that will be asked in most cases is whether or not to use a -network mirror as a source for packages. In most cases the default answer -should be fine, but there are some exceptions. +One question that will be asked during most installs is whether or not to +use a network mirror as a source for packages. In most cases the default +answer should be fine, but there are some exceptions. @@ -74,17 +128,10 @@ -If you are installing from a full CD or using a CD image (not DVD), using a -network mirror is not required, but is still strongly recommended because a -single CD contains only a fairly limited number of packages. The installer -currently does not support using multiple CD or DVD images during the -installation - - -Adding that option is planned. - - -. If you have a limited Internet connection it may still be best +If you are installing from a full CD or using a full CD image (not DVD), +using a network mirror is not required, but is still strongly recommended +because a single CD contains only a fairly limited number of packages. +If you have a limited Internet connection it may still be best to not select a network mirror here, but to finish the installation using only what's available on the CD and install additional packages after the installation (i.e. after you have rebooted into the new @@ -92,64 +139,53 @@ -If you are installing from a DVD or using a DVD image, the need to use a -network mirror is a lot smaller, but there is still a chance that some -packages that are part of the tasks you select in the next step will not -be included on the first DVD. This is especially true if you are installing -in another language than English: a number of font and localization packages -are known to be on the second DVD. So, if you have a reasonable Internet -connection it is still advisable to use a network mirror. +If you are installing from a DVD or using a DVD image, any packages needed +during the installation should be present on the first DVD. The same is true +if you have scanned multiple CDs as explained in the previous section. Use +of a network mirror is optional. One advantage of adding a network mirror is +that it will make updates of packages in point releases of the distribution +available for installation. - -To install additional packages after the installation you have two options: +In summary
