Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Aron Xu]

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:38 AM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
 wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> > On Jan 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Yao Wei (魏銘廷)  wrote:
> >
> > or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
> > task-chinese-t-desktop:
> >
> > fcitx,
> > fcitx-chewing,
> > fcitx-table,
> > im-config,
> > fonts-arphic-ukai,
> > fonts-arphic-uming,
> > fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> > fonts-noto-cjk,
> > libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> > libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> > firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> > poppler-data
>
> I haven’t yet understood why people are moving to fcitx. I have tried it 
> myself after it was automatically installed on my openSUSE machine to replace 
> iBus and found it completely unusable. I didn’t even manage to get any input 
> languages added.
>
> I am using iBus for writing Japanese and I consider it the superior and 
> simpler-to-use solution.
>
> Is there anything that fcitx is supposed to do better than iBus?
>
> Adrian

One of the reasons people moving to fcitx is that the framework has
some architectural advantages that gives a lot room of extending the
input method which ibus does not have so far. An example for Chinese
(China) users is that there are several other alternative
implementations of UI and, even further, commercial products with both
UI and engines.

GNOME's built-in support for ibus is a very old topic that a lot
discussions happened on GNOME's mailing list years ago - in short
there are two reasons: 1) ibus has slightly better support for those
non-CJK languagues whereas GNOME developers are mostly non-CJK native
speakers, 2) RedHat has continued investment on it.

Cheers,
Aron

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> > On Jan 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Yao Wei (魏銘廷)  wrote:
> > 
> > or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
> > task-chinese-t-desktop:
> > 
> > fcitx,
> > fcitx-chewing,
> > fcitx-table,
> > im-config,
> > fonts-arphic-ukai,
> > fonts-arphic-uming,
> > fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> > fonts-noto-cjk,
> > libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> > libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> > firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> > poppler-data
> 
> I haven’t yet understood why people are moving to fcitx. I have tried it 
> myself after it was automatically installed on my openSUSE machine to replace 
> iBus and found it completely unusable. I didn’t even manage to get any input 
> languages added.
> 
> I am using iBus for writing Japanese and I consider it the superior and 
> simpler-to-use solution.
> 
> Is there anything that fcitx is supposed to do better than iBus?

I cannot judge on fcitx, but it was stated that GNOME3 has built-in support
for iBus, so we have that in any case.
The question "fcitx or scim" is just sort of a fallback.


Holger


-- 
Holger Wansing 
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

> On Jan 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Yao Wei (魏銘廷)  wrote:
> 
> or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
> task-chinese-t-desktop:
> 
> fcitx,
> fcitx-chewing,
> fcitx-table,
> im-config,
> fonts-arphic-ukai,
> fonts-arphic-uming,
> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> fonts-noto-cjk,
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> poppler-data

I haven’t yet understood why people are moving to fcitx. I have tried it myself 
after it was automatically installed on my openSUSE machine to replace iBus and 
found it completely unusable. I didn’t even manage to get any input languages 
added.

I am using iBus for writing Japanese and I consider it the superior and 
simpler-to-use solution.

Is there anything that fcitx is supposed to do better than iBus?

Adrian

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

"Yao Wei (魏銘廷)"  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> > On Jan 12, 2019, at 16:35, Holger Wansing  wrote:
> > 
> > And for traditional Chinese:
> > 
> > Package: task-chinese-t-desktop
> > Architecture: all
> > Description: Traditional Chinese desktop
> > This task localises the desktop in Traditional Chinese.
> > Depends: ${misc:Depends},
> > Recommends:
> > scim,
> > scim-chewing,
> > scim-gtk-immodule,
> > im-config,
> > fonts-arphic-ukai,
> > fonts-arphic-uming,
> > # seems openjdk needs this to display Chinese.
> > fonts-noto,
> > fonts-noto-cjk,
> > libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> > libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> > firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> > # poppler-data is needed to display
> > # Chinese on poppler applications.
> > poppler-data
> > 
> > Is this working so far, or should things be improved, to close this bug?
> 
> Currently, the following set is recommended (for GNOME3 desktop) instead
> of the ones above, because current GNOME3 has native support on ibus
> (and probably fcitx):
> 
> ibus,
> ibus-chewing,
> ibus-table,
> im-config,
> fonts-arphic-ukai,
> fonts-arphic-uming,
> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> fonts-noto-cjk,
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> poppler-data
> 
> or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
> task-chinese-t-desktop:
> 
> fcitx,
> fcitx-chewing,
> fcitx-table,
> im-config,
> fonts-arphic-ukai,
> fonts-arphic-uming,
> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> fonts-noto-cjk,
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> poppler-data
> 
> Other input methods like gcin and hime are also available, but I seldom
> see people using SCIM.

So, for the input method question, I would propose to skip SCIM and move to 
fcitx as in zh_CN.

Any objections or advocates?


Holger


-- 
Holger Wansing 
PGP-Finterprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Yao Wei (魏銘廷)]

What's the recommended Kai font replacement for Arphic one?

Yao Wei

(This email is sent from a phone; sorry for HTML email if it happens.)

> On Jan 12, 2019, at 17:34, 林博仁  wrote:
> 
> I would like to request dropping the following two fonts:
> 
> * fonts-arphic-ukai
> * fonts-arphic-uming
> 
> IMO there's no one really uses it, with a confusing font family names, 
> unmaintained, and causes glitches in certain cases like the GNU gettext 
> manual 
>  
> etc.
> 
> It should be replaced by Noto Serif CJK/Source Han Serif fonts.
> 
> 林博仁(Buo-ren, Lin)
> buo.ren@gmail.com
> 
> 
> "Yao Wei (魏銘廷)"  於 2019年1月12日 週六 下午5:02寫道：
>> Hi,
>> 
>> > On Jan 12, 2019, at 16:35, Holger Wansing  wrote:
>> > 
>> > And for traditional Chinese:
>> > 
>> > Package: task-chinese-t-desktop
>> > Architecture: all
>> > Description: Traditional Chinese desktop
>> > This task localises the desktop in Traditional Chinese.
>> > Depends: ${misc:Depends},
>> > Recommends:
>> >   scim,
>> >   scim-chewing,
>> >   scim-gtk-immodule,
>> >   im-config,
>> >   fonts-arphic-ukai,
>> >   fonts-arphic-uming,
>> > # seems openjdk needs this to display Chinese.
>> >   fonts-noto,
>> >   fonts-noto-cjk,
>> >   libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
>> >   libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
>> >   firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
>> > # poppler-data is needed to display
>> > # Chinese on poppler applications.
>> >   poppler-data
>> > 
>> > Is this working so far, or should things be improved, to close this bug?
>> 
>> Currently, the following set is recommended (for GNOME3 desktop) instead
>> of the ones above, because current GNOME3 has native support on ibus
>> (and probably fcitx):
>> 
>> ibus,
>> ibus-chewing,
>> ibus-table,
>> im-config,
>> fonts-arphic-ukai,
>> fonts-arphic-uming,
>> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
>> fonts-noto-cjk,
>> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
>> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
>> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
>> poppler-data
>> 
>> or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
>> task-chinese-t-desktop:
>> 
>> fcitx,
>> fcitx-chewing,
>> fcitx-table,
>> im-config,
>> fonts-arphic-ukai,
>> fonts-arphic-uming,
>> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
>> fonts-noto-cjk,
>> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
>> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
>> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
>> poppler-data
>> 
>> Other input methods like gcin and hime are also available, but I seldom
>> see people using SCIM.
>> 
>> Just 2 cents,
>> Yao Wei

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[林博仁]

I would like to request dropping the following two fonts:

* fonts-arphic-ukai
* fonts-arphic-uming

IMO there's no one really uses it, with a confusing font family names,
unmaintained, and causes glitches in certain cases like the GNU gettext
manual <
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntu.zh.hant/permalink/2225280084193968/>
etc.

It should be replaced by Noto Serif CJK/Source Han Serif fonts.

林博仁(Buo-ren, Lin)
buo.ren@gmail.com


"Yao Wei (魏銘廷)"  於 2019年1月12日 週六 下午5:02寫道：

> Hi,
>
> > On Jan 12, 2019, at 16:35, Holger Wansing  wrote:
> >
> > And for traditional Chinese:
> >
> > Package: task-chinese-t-desktop
> > Architecture: all
> > Description: Traditional Chinese desktop
> > This task localises the desktop in Traditional Chinese.
> > Depends: ${misc:Depends},
> > Recommends:
> >   scim,
> >   scim-chewing,
> >   scim-gtk-immodule,
> >   im-config,
> >   fonts-arphic-ukai,
> >   fonts-arphic-uming,
> > # seems openjdk needs this to display Chinese.
> >   fonts-noto,
> >   fonts-noto-cjk,
> >   libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> >   libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> >   firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> > # poppler-data is needed to display
> > # Chinese on poppler applications.
> >   poppler-data
> >
> > Is this working so far, or should things be improved, to close this bug?
>
> Currently, the following set is recommended (for GNOME3 desktop) instead
> of the ones above, because current GNOME3 has native support on ibus
> (and probably fcitx):
>
> ibus,
> ibus-chewing,
> ibus-table,
> im-config,
> fonts-arphic-ukai,
> fonts-arphic-uming,
> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> fonts-noto-cjk,
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> poppler-data
>
> or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
> task-chinese-t-desktop:
>
> fcitx,
> fcitx-chewing,
> fcitx-table,
> im-config,
> fonts-arphic-ukai,
> fonts-arphic-uming,
> fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
> fonts-noto-cjk,
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
> libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
> firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> poppler-data
>
> Other input methods like gcin and hime are also available, but I seldom
> see people using SCIM.
>
> Just 2 cents,
> Yao Wei
>

Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Yao Wei (魏銘廷)]

Hi,

> On Jan 12, 2019, at 16:35, Holger Wansing  wrote:
> 
> And for traditional Chinese:
> 
> Package: task-chinese-t-desktop
> Architecture: all
> Description: Traditional Chinese desktop
> This task localises the desktop in Traditional Chinese.
> Depends: ${misc:Depends},
> Recommends:
>   scim,
>   scim-chewing,
>   scim-gtk-immodule,
>   im-config,
>   fonts-arphic-ukai,
>   fonts-arphic-uming,
> # seems openjdk needs this to display Chinese.
>   fonts-noto,
>   fonts-noto-cjk,
>   libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
>   libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
>   firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
> # poppler-data is needed to display
> # Chinese on poppler applications.
>   poppler-data
> 
> Is this working so far, or should things be improved, to close this bug?

Currently, the following set is recommended (for GNOME3 desktop) instead
of the ones above, because current GNOME3 has native support on ibus
(and probably fcitx):

ibus,
ibus-chewing,
ibus-table,
im-config,
fonts-arphic-ukai,
fonts-arphic-uming,
fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
fonts-noto-cjk,
libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
poppler-data

or we can follow task-chinese-s-desktop and use fcitx instead of ibus in
task-chinese-t-desktop:

fcitx,
fcitx-chewing,
fcitx-table,
im-config,
fonts-arphic-ukai,
fonts-arphic-uming,
fonts-noto, # this seems to be unnecessary, but not really sure.
fonts-noto-cjk,
libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
poppler-data

Other input methods like gcin and hime are also available, but I seldom
see people using SCIM.

Just 2 cents,
Yao Wei


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Bug#680668: tasksel: Input methods for chinese - (Was: Updating chinese-t-desktop in tasksel for Wheezy.)

[Holger Wansing]

Hi all,

I stumbled over this 5 years old bug regarding input methods for Chinese.

Could someone comment on how the status is here?
What input methods are needed these days?


Currently we have for simplified Chinese:

Package: task-chinese-s-desktop
Architecture: all
Description: Simplified Chinese desktop
 This task localises the desktop in Simplified Chinese.
Depends: ${misc:Depends},
Recommends:
# Input method stuff
im-config,
fcitx,
fcitx-sunpinyin,
fcitx-googlepinyin,
fcitx-table-wubi,
# Fonts
fonts-arphic-ukai,
fonts-arphic-uming,
fonts-noto,
fonts-noto-cjk,
# Software help and localization
libreoffice-l10n-zh-cn,
libreoffice-help-zh-cn,
firefox-esr-l10n-zh-cn | firefox-l10n-zh-cn,
# Dictionary
goldendict,
# poppler-data is needed to display
# Chinese on poppler applications.
poppler-data



And for traditional Chinese:

Package: task-chinese-t-desktop
Architecture: all
Description: Traditional Chinese desktop
 This task localises the desktop in Traditional Chinese.
Depends: ${misc:Depends},
Recommends:
scim,
scim-chewing,
scim-gtk-immodule,
im-config,
fonts-arphic-ukai,
fonts-arphic-uming,
# seems openjdk needs this to display Chinese.
fonts-noto,
fonts-noto-cjk,
libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw,
libreoffice-help-zh-tw,
firefox-esr-l10n-zh-tw | firefox-l10n-zh-tw,
# poppler-data is needed to display
# Chinese on poppler applications.
poppler-data



Is this working so far, or should things be improved, to close this bug?

Thanks
Holger

-- 
Holger Wansing 
PGP-Finterprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076