Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On Thu, 2013-10-10 at 11:32 -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: Or tasksel could stop installing recommends, like it was done before, and people involved in the various tasks can handle the list explicitly. This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent after the correct fix has already been indentified and committed by Emilio. Well, maybe that's because people concerned by this disagree with the “correct” fix. Unless I'm mistaken, that still brings gnome-control-center on both first Xfce/LXDE discs and installations. That's not really acceptable, especially if the only other solution is for us to drop network-manager-gnome from the task. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: Or tasksel could stop installing recommends, like it was done before, and people involved in the various tasks can handle the list explicitly. This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent after the correct fix has already been indentified and committed by Emilio. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
Le Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 07:41:00AM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez a écrit : On mar., 2013-10-08 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 08.10.2013 15:02, schrieb Yves-Alexis Perez: I still don' think having gnome-control-center installed on Debian Xfce (or any !gnome) installations is a good idea, to be honest. I personally use network-manager-gnome nm-applet under Xfce because it doesn't actually needs GNOME bits, so imho either the gnome-bluetooth recommends should be dropped from network-manager-gnome, or the gnome-control-center one dropped from gnome-bluetooth. Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. Then we should make tasksel stop installing recommends. Or maybe I should add a conflict in task-xfce-desktop (although I'm not so sure it works fine). It looks like that the problem is that when two desktop systems are installed, the one that pops up by default is not necessarly the one that the user wanted. If we can assume that the user is not bothered that GNOME packages are installed on the system despite they are not used, then the solution would be to ensure that if the task-xfce-desktop is the only desktop task installed, then the then the login managers should recogise it and propose XFCE a a default ? (dpkg triggers might help here.) Cheers, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131009061615.ga9...@falafel.plessy.net
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On mer., 2013-10-09 at 15:16 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: It looks like that the problem is that when two desktop systems are installed, the one that pops up by default is not necessarly the one that the user wanted. That's a point, althought alternatives can be used here. If we can assume that the user is not bothered that GNOME packages are installed on the system despite they are not used, That's wrong actually. Packages can modify system behavior when they're installed without the user knowing, and they sure can be bothered. Especially here, the major point is that no GNOME packages should be implicitly installed, only explicit dependencies should be added, imho. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
Hi, On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. According to policy, The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. Is it really unusual to use Network Manager without bluetooth? Doesn't most people use Network Manager to connect to wifi and ethernet? -- Pelle -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131009082910.gc8...@dsv.su.se
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On 09/10/13 10:29, Per Olofsson wrote: Hi, On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. According to policy, The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. Is it really unusual to use Network Manager without bluetooth? Doesn't most people use Network Manager to connect to wifi and ethernet? So what? This is just a recommends, you can install NM without gnome-bluetooth if you so desire. But in the general case, we want users to also get PAN/DUN support, so recommends is very appropriate. I have dropped the gnome-session recommends from gnome-control-center, isn't that enough to stop all of gnome from being installed when xfce is selected in tasksel? Emilio -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/525518c6.1080...@debian.org
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On mer., 2013-10-09 at 10:50 +0200, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote: On 09/10/13 10:29, Per Olofsson wrote: Hi, On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. According to policy, The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. Is it really unusual to use Network Manager without bluetooth? Doesn't most people use Network Manager to connect to wifi and ethernet? So what? This is just a recommends, you can install NM without gnome-bluetooth if you so desire. But in the general case, we want users to also get PAN/DUN support, so recommends is very appropriate. This is not the general case. This is the installation, where the tasks maintainers have selected a package set which fits a specific intent. In Xfce case, we're ok to have network-manager, we then accept network-manager-gnome because there's no other GTK+ NM client than nm-applet, but that's all. We don't really need gnome-bluetooth (although I think we'd be fine with it) and we definitely don't need gnome-control-center. Also, I have no idea how well behaved gnome-bluetooth is when not running under GNOME. I have dropped the gnome-session recommends from gnome-control-center, isn't that enough to stop all of gnome from being installed when xfce is selected in tasksel? No, see above. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 10:29:10AM +0200, Per Olofsson wrote: Hi, On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. According to policy, The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. Is it really unusual to use Network Manager without bluetooth? Doesn't most people use Network Manager to connect to wifi and ethernet? I certainly use xfce and the network manager, and I've even shut bluetooth off in the BIOS. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131009151628.gb...@topoi.pooq.com
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 12:51:11PM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: This is not the general case. This is the installation, where the tasks maintainers have selected a package set which fits a specific intent. In Xfce case, we're ok to have network-manager, we then accept network-manager-gnome because there's no other GTK+ NM client than nm-applet, but that's all. We don't really need gnome-bluetooth (although I think we'd be fine with it) and we definitely don't need gnome-control-center. Also, I have no idea how well behaved gnome-bluetooth is when not running under GNOME. It's probably only then not well-behaved when gnome-control-center is missing. (Because really, that's where the pairing is.) Kind regards Philipp Kern signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On lun., 2013-10-07 at 20:30 +0200, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote: On 07/10/13 19:38, Joey Hess wrote: network-manager-gnome recommnds gnome-bluetooth recommends gnome-control-center recommends gnome-session Not sure what to do about this. gnome-bluetooth seems to have that recommends because its control panel was moved into gnome-control-center and is presumably used by its UI. Perhaps gnome-control-center does not need to recommend gnome-session? We talked about exactly this issue on irc this weekend and we didn't see a reason for g-c-c to recommend gnome-session, so that can be dropped. I've gone ahead and applied that in svn for the next upload. I still don' think having gnome-control-center installed on Debian Xfce (or any !gnome) installations is a good idea, to be honest. I personally use network-manager-gnome nm-applet under Xfce because it doesn't actually needs GNOME bits, so imho either the gnome-bluetooth recommends should be dropped from network-manager-gnome, or the gnome-control-center one dropped from gnome-bluetooth. Or tasksel could stop installing recommends, like it was done before, and people involved in the various tasks can handle the list explicitly. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
Am 08.10.2013 15:02, schrieb Yves-Alexis Perez: I still don' think having gnome-control-center installed on Debian Xfce (or any !gnome) installations is a good idea, to be honest. I personally use network-manager-gnome nm-applet under Xfce because it doesn't actually needs GNOME bits, so imho either the gnome-bluetooth recommends should be dropped from network-manager-gnome, or the gnome-control-center one dropped from gnome-bluetooth. Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain
On mar., 2013-10-08 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 08.10.2013 15:02, schrieb Yves-Alexis Perez: I still don' think having gnome-control-center installed on Debian Xfce (or any !gnome) installations is a good idea, to be honest. I personally use network-manager-gnome nm-applet under Xfce because it doesn't actually needs GNOME bits, so imho either the gnome-bluetooth recommends should be dropped from network-manager-gnome, or the gnome-control-center one dropped from gnome-bluetooth. Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away. Then we should make tasksel stop installing recommends. Or maybe I should add a conflict in task-xfce-desktop (although I'm not so sure it works fine). Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
