Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca writes: On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (2014-01-06): Debian stable means not changing things in general, so adding new drivers is not something that is done. Sorry, that's wrong. The linux kernel is regularly updated in stable to add support for new(er) hardware. Well if 3.2.x updates upstream add new drivers, then sure, but I don't recall ever seeing debian backport drivers to a stable release kernel. Look again. For example: zgrep backport /usr/share/doc/linux-image-*/changelog.Debian.gz My experience is that the Debian kernel team is more than happy to accept backported drivers. But someone has to do the job. Bjørn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87r48cammc@nemi.mork.no
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Thank you for your detailed explanation of the organization and inner workings of Debian community. If we are going to discuss the finer nuances of English language, stable also means opposite of broken [http://thesaurus.com/browse/stable], which is exactly what your latest stable network install is on more than six months old hardware. Pardon me, but you don't have the wits required to offend me -- the only offense I am taking is with hypocrisy, arrogance, and bloated egos in open-source community. Debian maintainers replaced a working ffmpeg with broken libav forcing people to do their own builds and breaking dozens of applications and now you dare preach to me about what stable means when it comes to loadable kernel modules? I already said I am not interested anymore whether this will get fixed after witnessing the attitude. I reported it and you do with it what you want. it's not like there aren't other distros that work which I will be wholeheartedly recommending to others instead of Debian. Regards, Igor On 7.1.2014. 07:37, Christian PERRIER wrote: Quoting Igor Levicki (i...@levicki.net): Exactly what is preventing you to add new driver module which supports both old and new hardware? What? Easy to understand: you doing the work. Of course that requires also you to understand how the Debian kernel team work is organized, how the Debian stable releases are maintained, what does the stable word mean in English and a lot of other things you apparently fail to really get a picture of, as of now. That really understandable, no offense intended: we don't really expect people to immediately understand how a volunteer project with over one thousand contributors and no commercial organization behind it, is organized. Just like we don't expect people to teach us lessons about how we should be working when they don't really know how our work is organized. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
On Sat, Jan 04, 2014 at 04:10:22PM +0100, Igor Levicki wrote: Package: installation-reports Boot method: unetbootin (USB stick) Image version: debian-7.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso Date: 2013-01-04 15:00:00 CET Machine: ASUS Z87 PRO Processor: Intel Core i7-4770K Memory: 16 GB DDR3 Partitions: n/a Output of lspci -knn (or lspci -nn): dev 8086 ven 153b (Intel I-217V Gigabit Ethernet Controller) Base System Installation Checklist: [O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it Initial boot: [O] Detect network card:[E] Configure network: [ ] Detect CD: [O] Load installer modules: [O] Detect hard drives: [ ] Partition hard drives: [ ] Install base system:[ ] Clock/timezone setup: [ ] User/password setup:[ ] Install tasks: [ ] Install boot loader:[ ] Overall install:[ ] Comments/Problems: NETWORK based install fails at the only task it is supposed NOT to fail -- detecting and enabling network card. Package e1000e which should handle the onboard ethernet PHY is terribly outdated (version 1.x dated two years ago) and it does not recognize the onboard device. Latest version of e1000e driver dated July 9, 2013 is available from Intel in the form of source code: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=15817 Until it is in the kernel.org kernel in a version debian puts in a release, that doesn't help. It supports many new ethernet adapters present on latest generations of desktop mainboards. I really don't understand why it was not integrated into the kernel tree. I keep hearing this year will be the year of Linux Desktop for the last few years, yet many Linux distributions still fail on basic stuff like this. Current Debian stable uses the 3.2.x series kernel, since to get a stable release done, it has to freeze updates at some point. The 3.2 kernel is obviously older than your motherboard and older than that intel network adapter. Since driver developers can't predict the future, they can't write drivers for things that don't exist yet. Debian stable means not changing things in general, so adding new drivers is not something that is done. People that want a newer kernel can use the kernel from wheezy-backports to get support for new hardware. That doesn't help for installing of course unless you install from full images or use another network adapter while installing until you can get the backports kernel installed. And if you think windows would support your network card without giving it an add on driver disk, you are mistaking. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140106144619.gn17...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (2014-01-06): Debian stable means not changing things in general, so adding new drivers is not something that is done. Sorry, that's wrong. The linux kernel is regularly updated in stable to add support for new(er) hardware. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (2014-01-06): Debian stable means not changing things in general, so adding new drivers is not something that is done. Sorry, that's wrong. The linux kernel is regularly updated in stable to add support for new(er) hardware. Well if 3.2.x updates upstream add new drivers, then sure, but I don't recall ever seeing debian backport drivers to a stable release kernel. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140106191303.go17...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Let me first clarify that I wanted to build a production system for daily use, not an unstable test system where I could risk losing data so that is why I opted for a stable release. Since Debian 7.3 was released in December I assumed that it supports hardware which hit retail in June. Obviously, I was wrong about it but I couldn't find any detailed hardware compatibility list to check -- all I found was this: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en It says the following: 2.1.6. Network Connectivity Hardware _Almost any_ network interface card (NIC) supported by the Linux kernel should also be supported by the installation system; drivers should normally be loaded automatically. This includes _most PCI/PCI-Express cards_ as well as PCMCIA/Express Cards on laptops. Many older ISA cards are supported as well. [emphasis mine] So if my assumption was wrong, so it will be everyone else's and you can only blame your own documentation. As for your Windows does it too remark, in recent Windows (7, 8.1) there is no such thing as minimal network install ISO so I don't know why you are bringing it into this discussion, not to mention that your logic others fail so it is ok if we fail too eludes me. Moreover, I was under impression that we are talking about network installer ISO here, not about stable distribution kernel. AFAIK, network installer's job is to get the user into an environment in which they can install Debian over the network/internet. In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason or excuse not to have working network drivers in network installer image. If you go to: http://www.debian.org/News/2013/20131214 You will see: Updated Debian 7: 7.3 released December 14th, 2013 And if you go to: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=15817 You will see: e1000e-2.5.4.tar.gz Date 09/03/2013 If the date format is m/d/y then that is September 3rd, three months before your release (the date in readme.txt is July so if we assume that the date on download page is incorrect, that means 5 months difference). This driver (like any other Intel network driver) is open-source and it can be compiled as a stand-alone module against your stable 3.2 kernel to replace the three years old driver module you have in the network installer image. Let me repeat that last part -- three years old intel network driver module. Did you ever think about the scenario where your mainboard fails and you have to replace it after 3+ years, but you are constrained to a stable linux distribution by some proprietary application and/or hardware? How do you install the same stable linux distribution on your new hardware (because you simply can't buy the same hardware again after so much time) if distro makers/maintainers won't periodically add drivers for new hardware to stable images? Exactly what is preventing you to add new driver module which supports both old and new hardware? With Windows you insert a CD from mainboard manufacturer and you install the network driver. What do you do here, find a Debian machine running the same kernel version as your network installer and compile the driver from the source then copy it over? In my opinion that is not exactly user-friendly even for a geek like me, but if that is your idea of how things should work don't complain that nobody takes Linux seriously when it comes to desktop. And before you say you should have used Live DVD to check or you should have installed using full install DVD the answer is -- network still wouldn't work with either of those, and I would have just wasted bandwidth and space. Failure to support common hardware during install together with Debian maintainer's shameful handling of ffmpeg/libav situation is enough clues for me to pick up another distro which I just did so I don't really care if this get fixed or not. Regards, Igor On 6.1.2014. 20:13, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 05:21:30PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (2014-01-06): Debian stable means not changing things in general, so adding new drivers is not something that is done. Sorry, that's wrong. The linux kernel is regularly updated in stable to add support for new(er) hardware. Well if 3.2.x updates upstream add new drivers, then sure, but I don't recall ever seeing debian backport drivers to a stable release kernel. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Quoting Igor Levicki (i...@levicki.net): Exactly what is preventing you to add new driver module which supports both old and new hardware? What? Easy to understand: you doing the work. Of course that requires also you to understand how the Debian kernel team work is organized, how the Debian stable releases are maintained, what does the stable word mean in English and a lot of other things you apparently fail to really get a picture of, as of now. That really understandable, no offense intended: we don't really expect people to immediately understand how a volunteer project with over one thousand contributors and no commercial organization behind it, is organized. Just like we don't expect people to teach us lessons about how we should be working when they don't really know how our work is organized. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140107063730.gb5...@mykerinos.kheops.frmug.org
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
This is addressed in an ANCIENT bug report. My organization has worked around it for months. Please don't act like you're the only one affected by stable's slow uptake of drivers. If you want desktop support, use a desktop distro. Quoting Igor Levicki (i...@levicki.net): Exactly what is preventing you to add new driver module which supports both old and new hardware? What? Easy to understand: you doing the work. Of course that requires also you to understand how the Debian kernel team work is organized, how the Debian stable releases are maintained, what does the stable word mean in English and a lot of other things you apparently fail to really get a picture of, as of now. That really understandable, no offense intended: we don't really expect people to immediately understand how a volunteer project with over one thousand contributors and no commercial organization behind it, is organized. Just like we don't expect people to teach us lessons about how we should be working when they don't really know how our work is organized. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140107063730.gb5...@mykerinos.kheops.frmug.org
Bug#734171: Network install does not work with I-217V ethernet controller
Package: installation-reports Boot method: unetbootin (USB stick) Image version: debian-7.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso Date: 2013-01-04 15:00:00 CET Machine: ASUS Z87 PRO Processor: Intel Core i7-4770K Memory: 16 GB DDR3 Partitions: n/a Output of lspci -knn (or lspci -nn): dev 8086 ven 153b (Intel I-217V Gigabit Ethernet Controller) Base System Installation Checklist: [O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it Initial boot: [O] Detect network card:[E] Configure network: [ ] Detect CD: [O] Load installer modules: [O] Detect hard drives: [ ] Partition hard drives: [ ] Install base system:[ ] Clock/timezone setup: [ ] User/password setup:[ ] Install tasks: [ ] Install boot loader:[ ] Overall install:[ ] Comments/Problems: NETWORK based install fails at the only task it is supposed NOT to fail -- detecting and enabling network card. Package e1000e which should handle the onboard ethernet PHY is terribly outdated (version 1.x dated two years ago) and it does not recognize the onboard device. Latest version of e1000e driver dated July 9, 2013 is available from Intel in the form of source code: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=15817 It supports many new ethernet adapters present on latest generations of desktop mainboards. I really don't understand why it was not integrated into the kernel tree. I keep hearing this year will be the year of Linux Desktop for the last few years, yet many Linux distributions still fail on basic stuff like this. Please fix. -- Regards, Igor Levicki smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
