Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 05:53:41PM -0800, Mark Seven Smith wrote:

> I can get through the installation process, by formatting 
> my hard drive ahead of time, and then just hitting  
> at each prompt.  BUT THE REAL PROBLEM COMES when I am 
> supposed to choose "modules".  I do not understand this 
> part, but in the book, "Learning Debian GNU/Linux", at this 
> section, they say that I should choose THESE MODULES to 
> install:

If this is really the part which causes the real problem, just skip it.
This is something that can be done after installation, if you need it at
all.  Just accept the default modules.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Mark Seven Smith]

Nobody else has any ideas about this besides Chris?


On Wednesday 12 December 2001 05:53 pm, Mark Seven Smith 
wrote:
> Awhile back, I purchased a book, "Learning Debian
> GNU/Linux", and was unable to install the version of
> Debian that came with the book (the CD-ROM that was
> included in the back of the book).
>
> So, I then purchased the CD-ROM's for Debian, version
> "Potato", from a mail-order vendor.  Still had problems.
>
> In the installation, the install program that comes up is
> a simple text-based interface, with scrolling lists and
> such. But if I try to scroll the lists, the whole
> computer bombs--it just locks up.  It is very strange;
> the keyboard wont' work, the RESET switch won't work, I
> have to power-down, and then power back up and reboot.
>
> I am booting from the CD-ROM (although I have tried
> making floppy disks to boot from; but it didn't matter).
>
> I joined the "debian-user" list, to try and figure out
> what was wrong.  On the list, some people suggested that
> my video card might be to blame; even though it works
> fine in all other operating systems.  The card is an ATI
> Rage 128. It was suggested that I try WOODY Debian.
>
> So, I just received my CD-ROMs containing WOODY. 
> However, I STILL CANNOT INSTALL!  What is going on?
>
> I can get through the installation process, by formatting
> my hard drive ahead of time, and then just hitting
>  at each prompt.  BUT THE REAL PROBLEM COMES when
> I am supposed to choose "modules".  I do not understand
> this part, but in the book, "Learning Debian GNU/Linux",
> at this section, they say that I should choose THESE
> MODULES to install:
>
> Table 3-3: Modules To Install
>
> Catgory  |  Module
> _|_
>   fs |  binfmt_aout
>   fs |  smbfs
>   fs |  vfat
>   misc   |  lp
>   misc   |  serial
>   net|  bsd_comp
>   net|  dummy
>   net|  ppp
>
> I show these, to point out exactly where in the
> installation procedure I always fail.  I cannot scroll
> through these lists; in fact, I can choose the FIRST "fs"
> above (binfmt_aout), because I don't have to scroll any
> lists, I just have to click the down-arrow a few times to
> get to where "fs" is, and then when I select that,
> "binfmt_aout" is right there, and I select that, and then
> it is fine.
>
> But when I go further down the list, the greater the
> chances the system is going to lock up, WITHOUT WARNING.
>
> This is a simple, text-based install procedure.  It
> should be compatible with ANY basic video card.  What is
> going on?
>
> I am currently running Red Hat Linux 7.1. I can also run
> (and have run just fine in the past:) SuSE Linux,
> Mandrake Linux, and various other types of Linux that
> I've tried. Also, I used to run Windows 95, 98, and 2000
> on this very system, with no problems.
>
> BUT I WANT TO RUN DEBIAN!
>
> The video card doesn't seem to be what's a fault,
> anymore. I think the install procedure in Debian has a
> flaw, somehow; but how?  If it works for everyone else?
>
> I stripped ALL of the hardware out of my computer, except
> what was absolutely NEEDED for the install--trying to see
> what other pieces of hardware might be causing the
> trouble. I also changed my keyboard, twice.  I haven't
> tried a different video card, because I cannot afford it,
> and anyhow I am using that same video card in Linux,
> right now (but tragically, this isn't Debian!)  I am
> running Red Hat 7.1, 
>
> I have an ABIT motherboard, with 256 MB of RAM, a sis-gig
> hard drive, a 30-gig hard drive, an Intel PII 400 MHz,
> 300W power supply, D-Link DFE-530TX ethernet card,
> standard SoundBlaster sound card, a 56kb modem card that
> is not being used, a generic fast CD-ROM player (56X?  I
> don't recall), and a floppy drive.  I am using a cable
> modem box, for Cox@home Internet connection.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas at all?  Please help!
>
> If there are alternative ways to install Debian from the
> CD-ROM (automatic, for instance), then I would like to
> hear about any & all alternatives; because I figure that
> once it is installed, the problem will go away--after
> all, Debian IS simply Linux, and I am using Linux right
> now!  :-)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --Mark Seven Smith
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Mark Seven Smith]

[NOTE: Sorry Chris, I meant for this to go to the list]

On Wednesday 12 December 2001 09:47 pm, Chris Tillman wrote:


> Perhaps, if you're serious about installing without the
> installer, you could dig into archives.debian.org. It's
> just, well I'm a little familiar with the workings of the
> installer, and I'm just familiar enough to know it really
> takes care of a LOT of stuff under the hood. One guy that
> knows something about doing it the 'hard' way would be
> Andrew Korn
> (lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200112/msg
>00196.html).


Thanks; I will check this out :-)


> In fact, that's another interesting science project you
> could do, is dive into cvs.debian.org/boot-floppies. The
> one thing you can say about Debian, with complete source
> code, is that if you want to find out how something's
> done, "it's in there".


I like this idea much better, however!  I wasn't sure how 
to go about this, but there's the link--so, who knows?  I 
do wish to learn to program in Linux...


...
> but it's
> much easier said than done, I fear.


ALWAYS!   ;-)

> Do you have any external drives? You could install using
> another computer on that drive and then hook up the
> drive.



No external drives, but *perhaps* my father would let me 
take my 30-gig drive (the one I'm putting Debian on) and 
plunk it into his system for a spell (his computer's just 
in the next room!)

Thanks for the ideas...I'll wait for the morning to see who 
else responds to my Email to the list, and I'll do some 
exploring then, too.

Thanks again,

--mVIIs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Chris Tillman]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 08:17:03PM -0800, Mark Seven Smith wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 December 2001 07:40 pm, Chris Tillman wrote:
> 
> 

All very frustrating. 

Perhaps, if you're serious about installing without the installer, you
could dig into archives.debian.org. It's just, well I'm a little
familiar with the workings of the installer, and I'm just familiar
enough to know it really takes care of a LOT of stuff under the
hood. One guy that knows something about doing it the 'hard' way would
be Andrew Korn (lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200112/msg00196.html).

In fact, that's another interesting science project you could do, is dive
into cvs.debian.org/boot-floppies. The one thing you can say about
Debian, with complete source code, is that if you want to find out how
something's done, "it's in there".

Basically, the installer provides a partitioning utility (you probably
don't need that), a very basic Linux system (you could probably use
your RH system instead), and it sets up the new system in /target
using a chroot as needed. The 3rd part is really the key for you, but
it's much easier said than done, I fear.

Do you have any external drives? You could install using another
computer on that drive and then hook up the drive.

-- 
*--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--*
|    |
|   debian-imac (potato):    |
|Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|   May the Source be with you   |
**


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Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Mark Seven Smith]

On Wednesday 12 December 2001 07:40 pm, Chris Tillman wrote:


> Just a thought: does it always bomb using the down arrow
> key? What about the page-down key? Maybe you can edge
> around it. Although of course the reason should be
> figured out and corrected, somehow.

Ah, yes--I've had a long time to try and think of stuff 
like this...and I've tried EVERYTHING--I've counted the 
number of entries in the lists and wrote them down, so that 
I don't try and scroll one more than there are entries in 
the list (this seemed to work, sometimes, and at others, it 
did not matter), I've tried the down-arrow key, the 
page-up/page-down keys, I've considered ways to enable the 
mouse during the install, I've queried the debian-user list 
many times about this, trying to figure out a way to 
install Debian w/o the install program (there were ideas 
about this, but they proved to be beyond my capacity to 
perform, I have still more to learn). I have re-booted the 
installation program over & over & over again, trying to 
figure out a way to do everything JUST RIGHT, so that I can 
get at least a little further, (so that I can see the next 
list, and write down what I need to do for that list so 
that I can do only the bare minimum necessary the NEXT 
time! :-)

I want Debian.  There must be a way to do this...

> > So, I just received my CD-ROMs containing WOODY. 
> > However, I STILL CANNOT INSTALL!  What is going on?
>
> I don't think Woody CDs are available yet.

True--this is a very current pre-release snapshot, as you 
mention.

> I think what
> people meant was downloading the Woody installer over the
> network (links are in the installation manual (see my
> sig).

YEP--I've tried to do this; I have tried it with Potato, 
and with Woody; I've tried it in every way possible--as a 
full-on HD install (download EVERYTHING, and go from 
there), or by downloading according to the installation 
manual, and doing a network install, (booting from a floppy 
in the process), and also making all the other floppies 
that one needs (the ones that are usually just run from the 
hard drive), I physically created the floppies, thinking 
that perhaps doing it that way would work.  I have tried to 
make sure that I had the VERY LATEST versions of the floppy 
disks.  I never tried to create my own CD-ROMs, since I 
don't have burner.  But, I have purchased the CD's now, 
twice, (once Potato, and once Woody): and from a someone 
who makes a contribution to the Debian project, both times! 
('Computer-Help Guy' in Canada).

> The woody installation packages will amount to
> about 5M, you configure the network within the installer
> and then it downloads the rest of the basic system (~30M)
> itself.

Tried, many, many times; I was trying to avoid having to 
purchase the CD's again.  Finally got tired of setting 
everything up, and went and got the CD's, because even in 
the Woody installation manual, every chance they get, they 
insist on telling you to "get the CD's!  It's EASIER! We're 
WARNING YOU..." ;-)

> Woody is not released yet, so if you got Woody
> CDs they were a pre-release snapshot.

Yep!

> > If there are alternative ways to install Debian from
> > the CD-ROM (automatic, for instance), then I would like
> > to hear about any & all alternatives; because I figure
> > that once it is installed, the problem will go
> > away--after all, Debian IS simply Linux, and I am using
> > Linux right now!  :-)
>
> The next release (after woody) will have this capability.
> There is an experimental version now, I think it's been
> mentioned on debian-boot. The problem, and the reason it
> hasn't been done before now, is that it's difficult if
> not impossible to correctly anticipate or detect all the
> different kinds of hardware out there in order to make
> the right installation choices. Thus far Debian
> installation has depended greatly on the computer between
> the ears to make its job easier.

OK, well, how did people USED TO INSTALL Linux, before 
there were all these cutesy little install routines?  
Perhaps I can: format the drive, copy a bunch of files over 
there, unpack the packages myself, and etc. etc. etc. (It's 
the "etc. etc. etc." that I am having doubts about... ;-)

At first I just sorta jumped into trying to install Debian; 
I figured it shouldn't be any more difficult than the other 
Linux-es that I have installed; especially since I already 
have all the stuff I need to know about this computer 
written down fully, in logbooks that I have kept from the 
previous OSes & distros.

But then, when I hit problems, I began READING.  And I have 
read all over the website, and the installation manuals, 
and I have been subscribed to the Debian-user list, AND the 
Red Hat "Seawolf" list (since that is the distro I am 
using), but I've kept with Debian, reading, trying to 
learn, and to figure out what I am doing wrong.

Hopefully somebody will recognize the problem I am having, 
and know what is causing it, and be able 

Re: Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Chris Tillman]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 05:53:41PM -0800, Mark Seven Smith wrote:
> Awhile back, I purchased a book, "Learning Debian 
> GNU/Linux", and was unable to install the version of Debian 
> that came with the book (the CD-ROM that was included in 
> the back of the book).
> 
> So, I then purchased the CD-ROM's for Debian, version 
> "Potato", from a mail-order vendor.  Still had problems.
> 
> In the installation, the install program that comes up is a 
> simple text-based interface, with scrolling lists and such. 
>  But if I try to scroll the lists, the whole computer 
> bombs--it just locks up.  It is very strange; the keyboard 

Just a thought: does it always bomb using the down arrow key? What
about the page-down key? Maybe you can edge around it. Although of
course the reason should be figured out and corrected, somehow.

> So, I just received my CD-ROMs containing WOODY.  However, 
> I STILL CANNOT INSTALL!  What is going on?

I don't think Woody CDs are available yet. I think what people meant
was downloading the Woody installer over the network (links are in the
installation manual (see my sig). The woody installation packages will
amount to about 5M, you configure the network within the installer and
then it downloads the rest of the basic system (~30M) itself. Woody is
not released yet, so if you got Woody CDs they were a pre-release
snapshot.

> If there are alternative ways to install Debian from the 
> CD-ROM (automatic, for instance), then I would like to hear 
> about any & all alternatives; because I figure that once it 
> is installed, the problem will go away--after all, Debian 
> IS simply Linux, and I am using Linux right now!  :-)
> 

The next release (after woody) will have this capability. There is an
experimental version now, I think it's been mentioned on debian-boot.
The problem, and the reason it hasn't been done before now, is that
it's difficult if not impossible to correctly anticipate or detect all
the different kinds of hardware out there in order to make the right
installation choices. Thus far Debian installation has depended
greatly on the computer between the ears to make its job easier.
 
-- 
*--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--*
|    |
|   debian-imac (potato):    |
|Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|   May the Source be with you   |
**


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Debian Won't Install! (System Locks Up)

[Mark Seven Smith]

Awhile back, I purchased a book, "Learning Debian 
GNU/Linux", and was unable to install the version of Debian 
that came with the book (the CD-ROM that was included in 
the back of the book).

So, I then purchased the CD-ROM's for Debian, version 
"Potato", from a mail-order vendor.  Still had problems.

In the installation, the install program that comes up is a 
simple text-based interface, with scrolling lists and such. 
 But if I try to scroll the lists, the whole computer 
bombs--it just locks up.  It is very strange; the keyboard 
wont' work, the RESET switch won't work, I have to 
power-down, and then power back up and reboot.

I am booting from the CD-ROM (although I have tried making 
floppy disks to boot from; but it didn't matter).

I joined the "debian-user" list, to try and figure out what 
was wrong.  On the list, some people suggested that my 
video card might be to blame; even though it works fine in 
all other operating systems.  The card is an ATI Rage 128. 
It was suggested that I try WOODY Debian.

So, I just received my CD-ROMs containing WOODY.  However, 
I STILL CANNOT INSTALL!  What is going on?

I can get through the installation process, by formatting 
my hard drive ahead of time, and then just hitting  
at each prompt.  BUT THE REAL PROBLEM COMES when I am 
supposed to choose "modules".  I do not understand this 
part, but in the book, "Learning Debian GNU/Linux", at this 
section, they say that I should choose THESE MODULES to 
install:

Table 3-3: Modules To Install

Catgory  |  Module
_|_
  fs |  binfmt_aout
  fs |  smbfs
  fs |  vfat
  misc   |  lp
  misc   |  serial
  net|  bsd_comp
  net|  dummy
  net|  ppp

I show these, to point out exactly where in the 
installation procedure I always fail.  I cannot scroll 
through these lists; in fact, I can choose the FIRST "fs" 
above (binfmt_aout), because I don't have to scroll any 
lists, I just have to click the down-arrow a few times to 
get to where "fs" is, and then when I select that, 
"binfmt_aout" is right there, and I select that, and then 
it is fine.

But when I go further down the list, the greater the 
chances the system is going to lock up, WITHOUT WARNING.

This is a simple, text-based install procedure.  It should 
be compatible with ANY basic video card.  What is going on?

I am currently running Red Hat Linux 7.1. I can also run 
(and have run just fine in the past:) SuSE Linux, Mandrake 
Linux, and various other types of Linux that I've tried.  
Also, I used to run Windows 95, 98, and 2000 on this very 
system, with no problems.

BUT I WANT TO RUN DEBIAN!

The video card doesn't seem to be what's a fault, anymore.  
I think the install procedure in Debian has a flaw, 
somehow; but how?  If it works for everyone else?

I stripped ALL of the hardware out of my computer, except 
what was absolutely NEEDED for the install--trying to see 
what other pieces of hardware might be causing the trouble. 
 I also changed my keyboard, twice.  I haven't tried a 
different video card, because I cannot afford it, and 
anyhow I am using that same video card in Linux, right now 
(but tragically, this isn't Debian!)  I am running Red Hat 
7.1, 

I have an ABIT motherboard, with 256 MB of RAM, a sis-gig 
hard drive, a 30-gig hard drive, an Intel PII 400 MHz, 300W 
power supply, D-Link DFE-530TX ethernet card, standard 
SoundBlaster sound card, a 56kb modem card that is not 
being used, a generic fast CD-ROM player (56X?  I don't 
recall), and a floppy drive.  I am using a cable modem box, 
for Cox@home Internet connection.

Does anyone have any ideas at all?  Please help!

If there are alternative ways to install Debian from the 
CD-ROM (automatic, for instance), then I would like to hear 
about any & all alternatives; because I figure that once it 
is installed, the problem will go away--after all, Debian 
IS simply Linux, and I am using Linux right now!  :-)

Thanks in advance,

--Mark Seven Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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