Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
[Denis Barbier] Maybe I missed the purpose of languagechooser? Is it supposed to select installation language, or locales when the system is up? IMO it should be the former, then only languages which provide translated debconf templates for debian-installer should be listed. The purpose of languagechooser is to ask the person doing the installation about his preferred language. This information can be used to choose which language to use during installation and set this language as the default language after the installation. The first part is required, the second part is missing in Debian but is present in Skolelinux. Sure, if I prefer reading German than English, I would like to set LANGUAGE=fr:de You will have to modify the default configuration for French, I think. I do not want this functionality in the first version of languagechooser. In later versions, we can implement it as a low priority question. Being able to pass LANG and/or LANGUAGE variables on boot prompt would also be nice. Good idea. I added it to the README file. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 10:33:57PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Denis Barbier] Maybe I missed the purpose of languagechooser? Is it supposed to select installation language, or locales when the system is up? IMO it should be the former, then only languages which provide translated debconf templates for debian-installer should be listed. The purpose of languagechooser is to ask the person doing the installation about his preferred language. This information can be used to choose which language to use during installation and set this language as the default language after the installation. Right, but locales and languages are 2 different things. All translations in debian-installer use UTF-8 encodings, whereas people might want to use a locale with their legacy encoding. Or do you want to only propose UTF-8 locales by default? I also wonder what happens with the locales package at installation time, is it installed and configured? Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
tis 2003-02-25 klockan 10.26 skrev Denis Barbier: On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 11:51:01PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [...] Does this mean that LANGUAGE is fully determined by this locale, or can it be edited? I want it to be fully determined by the locale, and do not see the need to edit it manually. Do you think the first time users need to edit this list of fallback translations? Here is a proposal for this specific issue: a. User selects his preferred language (currently language-first) b. If it matches some specific languages which have predefined LANGUAGE combinations (i.e. mostly Scandinavian languages), display a select template which looks like Choices: no:nb:nn:dk:sv, no:nn:nb:dk:sv, no:nn:nb:sv:dk, Manual selection c. If the last choice is selected or if initial language has no predefined LANGUAGE combinations, display language-addtolist and loop until selection is over. This is *way* too complex. What purpose does this serve? I really don't think it's necessary with fallback languages. If you *desperately* want something this complex, PLEASE make it priority low! Did anyone ever complain about boot-floppies just asking for language and not N fallback languages? /Martin signature.asc Description: Detta =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4r?= en digitalt signeradmeddelandedel
How I want languagechooser to behave
I find the current languagechooser complex and non-intuitive. To make sure everyone know where I want it to move, I wrote down a little description on where I want the package to move. I know we have been discussing these things lately, so I thought this was good time to get something down in writing. Here is the current README. Any comments. Is this a good idea? debian-installer language chooser = This package should behava as follows: 0. extract available languages from list of available locales (mapping language code - language name) 1. present list of language names, and ask the user to pick one. 2. if the language is available in several regions (maps to several locales), ask which region / language variant to use. (allow user to [back] off to the language list. 3. pass the locale information on to the parts that needs it. Based on this information a locale is selected. This locale maps to one language, one region, a priority list of fallback languages, and a default keyboard layout. The language code is passed into cdebconf. The locale and priority list of languages is passed to base-config/termwrap as LANG_INST and LANGUAGE_INST in /target/root/dbootstrap_settings. The For each supported locale, the following information must be available: - language code (part of locale) - country code (part of locale) - priority list of fallback languages to use as translations - default keymap to use -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 08:01:05PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [...] This package should behava as follows: 0. extract available languages from list of available locales (mapping language code - language name) I disagree, there is no reason to propose languages which have no translated templates. 1. present list of language names, and ask the user to pick one. 2. if the language is available in several regions (maps to several locales), ask which region / language variant to use. (allow user to [back] off to the language list. Why don't merge 1 and 2 into a single list? 3. pass the locale information on to the parts that needs it. Based on this information a locale is selected. This locale maps to one language, one region, a priority list of fallback languages, Does this mean that LANGUAGE is fully determined by this locale, or can it be edited? and a default keyboard layout. Shouldn't keyboard layout be handled by kbd-chooser? The language code is passed into cdebconf. The locale and priority list of languages is passed to base-config/termwrap as LANG_INST and LANGUAGE_INST in /target/root/dbootstrap_settings. The Ok. For each supported locale, the following information must be available: - language code (part of locale) - country code (part of locale) - priority list of fallback languages to use as translations - default keymap to use Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
[Denis Barbier] I disagree, there is no reason to propose languages which have no translated templates. Actually, I use this information to also set the default language in KDE and GNOME, as well as the default dictionary in ispell. But there is no reason to list _all_ languages available, but that was implicit in my suggestion, as the list of available locales do not need to be complete (ie. the same as the one in glibc/locales). Why don't merge 1 and 2 into a single list? To make the language list shorter, and less confusing. I guess the lists could be combined into one list. We will have to test and see which presentation is best for new users. (Old users will cope with both approaches. Does this mean that LANGUAGE is fully determined by this locale, or can it be edited? I want it to be fully determined by the locale, and do not see the need to edit it manually. Do you think the first time users need to edit this list of fallback translations? and a default keyboard layout. Shouldn't keyboard layout be handled by kbd-chooser? Sure. But the default should be updated based on the choosen locale. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 23:33, Denis Barbier wrote: Hi, you did not send your message to debian-boot, do you want to post it again, or do you want me to reply there? Sorry. Late night. I meant debian-boot. Denis On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 11:08:23PM +, Alastair McKinstry wrote: On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 22:01, Denis Barbier wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 08:01:05PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [...] This package should behava as follows: 0. extract available languages from list of available locales (mapping language code - language name) I disagree, there is no reason to propose languages which have no translated templates. There are (partial) translations for Linux into at least 58 languages (in iso-codes, I've collected translations for 58; I know the Indian translations do more that I've not seen); we have translations for a lot less. We want the user to be able to select languages once on setup; hence allow them to do it here; maybe we just show the 7 or so template-translated languages here, with Other, allowing a fuller list, but .. given the modular nature of the installer, how do we know what translations we have in total? The full list is probably safer. 1. present list of language names, and ask the user to pick one. 2. if the language is available in several regions (maps to several locales), ask which region / language variant to use. (allow user to [back] off to the language list. Why don't merge 1 and 2 into a single list? 3. pass the locale information on to the parts that needs it. Based on this information a locale is selected. This locale maps to one language, one region, a priority list of fallback languages, Does this mean that LANGUAGE is fully determined by this locale, or can it be edited? and a default keyboard layout. Shouldn't keyboard layout be handled by kbd-chooser? kbd-chooser picks the default mostly based on language (it may also do so based on autodetecting kbd, particularly in the USB case). Please don't have languagechooser have knowledge of kbdmaps; this is complex enough as it is, and modularity should not be broken. Also, allow for the case that a (default) language and country may be autodetected and passed to languagechooser by a (as yet unwritten) previous module. Some BIOSes bootloaders, eg the SRM console on Alphas, have language, country settings; a udeb might read these and use them to pick default languages,etc for languagechooser, in which case the languagechooser might lower the priority of the question, and allow that question to be skipped. - Alastair -- Alastair McKinstry [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC 1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4 He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -- Alastair McKinstry [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC 1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4 He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: How I want languagechooser to behave
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 11:51:01PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Denis Barbier] I disagree, there is no reason to propose languages which have no translated templates. Actually, I use this information to also set the default language in KDE and GNOME, as well as the default dictionary in ispell. [...] Maybe I missed the purpose of languagechooser? Is it supposed to select installation language, or locales when the system is up? IMO it should be the former, then only languages which provide translated debconf templates for debian-installer should be listed. Does this mean that LANGUAGE is fully determined by this locale, or can it be edited? I want it to be fully determined by the locale, and do not see the need to edit it manually. Do you think the first time users need to edit this list of fallback translations? Sure, if I prefer reading German than English, I would like to set LANGUAGE=fr:de Being able to pass LANG and/or LANGUAGE variables on boot prompt would also be nice. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
