Re: Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): We have 20 kilobytes free on the root floppy. Don't make me laugh.. OK, OK, I understand : I was absolutely unaware of these room problems. So, currently, Denis proposal seems to be the only way to get sorting properly work at least in very early packages. THe problem is : it is quite complicated and I'm not sure all translators will be able to make it. Moreover, it breaks the initial idea of completely forgetting having the country list in one of our packages, but rely on the iso-codes package. Maybe we'd better forget about sorting in countrychooser : your region sorting system is already enough for having people easily find their own country. Moreover, the ideas which float around languagechooser/countrychooser may modify all this with the whole country list menu being showed very rarely to users. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 07:37:25AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: [...] * This script should be split into 2 parts: a. print the sorted list (ie $output) into a file sorted.$lang b. read sorted.$lang files and add Indices fields. This way sorted.$lang files could be put under CVS wings and translators might check that countries are sorted as expected. Maintainer can run (b) without having locales installed. Seems to be the only way However, in the meantime, the country sorting by region has been added by Joey. For English names only. No idea if this changes the proposed scheme. I don't really like having sorted.* files in CVS as this loses one advantage we had until then : the translations were completely outside the package. With this, we somewhat put them again in the package I am afraid that there is no other solution if you want sorted entries before the locales package is installed. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
Quoting Denis Barbier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): However, in the meantime, the country sorting by region has been added by Joey. For English names only. Hmmmwith translated names, the countries are properly distributed in regionsOf course, inside the regions lists, the sorting is still made with regards to English of course. No idea if this changes the proposed scheme. I don't really like having sorted.* files in CVS as this loses one advantage we had until then : the translations were completely outside the package. With this, we somewhat put them again in the package I am afraid that there is no other solution if you want sorted entries before the locales package is installed. Any chance to get the locales package installed *before* running all this? Maybe an udeb with only the needed stuff? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
Christian Perrier wrote: Any chance to get the locales package installed *before* running all this? Maybe an udeb with only the needed stuff? We have 20 kilobytes free on the root floppy. Don't make me laugh.. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 09:07:56PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 07:15:28AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote:
[...]
I first need to add some sorting in English.and after this, we
will be thrown in the known problem of translations sorting (which is
not countrychooser specific, by the way)
This requires changes in cdebconf, so you should not focus on it now.
Sorting cannot be performed at run-time because locales package is not
installed. Sorting items when building packages is painful because
the needed UTF-8 locales have to be installed. So the only option is
to statically build sorted lists. Thus I implemented a new field in
cdebconf to tell in which order items have to be displayed. Consider
for instance:
Choices: a, b, c
Choices-ll.UTF-8: x, y, z
Indices-ll.UTF-8: 3, 1, 2
The first 2 lines have their usual meaning, ie. 'a' is translated into
'x', 'b' into 'y' and 'c' into 'z'. The Indices field tells that items
must be displayed as z, x, y for this language.
This has been tested on countrychooser with the help of the attached
script;
$ sort_countries --lang=fr --locale=fr_FR.UTF-8 \
debian/templates debian/templates.sorted
Now if templates is replaced by templates.sorted, countries are sorted.
Remaining issues:
* iso-codes French translation contains commas, which confuses
cdebconf. Other languages have surely the same problem.
* This script should be split into 2 parts:
a. print the sorted list (ie $output) into a file sorted.$lang
b. read sorted.$lang files and add Indices fields.
This way sorted.$lang files could be put under CVS wings and
translators might check that countries are sorted as expected.
Maintainer can run (b) without having locales installed.
Denis
#! /usr/bin/perl -w
use Getopt::Long;
use POSIX;
use locale;
binmode STDIN, ':utf8';
binmode STDOUT, ':utf8';
my $lang = '';
my $locale = '';
GetOptions (lang=s = \$lang, locale=s = \$locale);
die Usage: sort_countries --lang=langcode --locale=locale
unless length($lang) 0 length($locale) 0;
setlocale(LC_ALL, $locale);
my $cnt = 0;
while () {
print;
next unless s/Choices-$lang.UTF-8: //;
chomp;
my @list = split(/, /);
my @block = ();
my $output = '';
for my $country (@list) {
chomp $country;
if ($country =~ m/^\x{00a0}/) {
$cnt++;
push @block, $country. .$cnt;
} else {
$output .= join(\n, sort @block).\n if (@block);
@block = ();
$cnt++;
$output .= $country. .$cnt.\n;
}
}
$output .= join(\n, sort @block).\n if (@block);
$output =~ s/.*? (\d+)$/$1/mg;
$output =~ s/\n/, /g;
$output =~ s/, $//;
print Indices-$lang.UTF-8: $output\n;
}
1;
Re: Sorting is implemented in cdebconf CVS (was Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS)
Quoting Denis Barbier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): This has been tested on countrychooser with the help of the attached script; $ sort_countries --lang=fr --locale=fr_FR.UTF-8 \ debian/templates debian/templates.sorted Now if templates is replaced by templates.sorted, countries are sorted. How do you think this could be included in countrychooser? I'm reluctant at doing this myself as either you or someone else will probably do it better and cleanly. Remaining issues: * iso-codes French translation contains commas, which confuses cdebconf. Other languages have surely the same problem. Several languages have this problem. While writing the very first countrychooser, I took care of this for english strings but forgot to do so for translations. * This script should be split into 2 parts: a. print the sorted list (ie $output) into a file sorted.$lang b. read sorted.$lang files and add Indices fields. This way sorted.$lang files could be put under CVS wings and translators might check that countries are sorted as expected. Maintainer can run (b) without having locales installed. Seems to be the only way However, in the meantime, the country sorting by region has been added by Joey. No idea if this changes the proposed scheme. I don't really like having sorted.* files in CVS as this loses one advantage we had until then : the translations were completely outside the package. With this, we somewhat put them again in the package -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Speaking of which, someone should look into a way to make the KDE setup wizard be feed the debian-installer/country setting to avoid re-prompting for country. And all packages using their own language selection template be fed by debian-installer/language Ahem...geneweb...:-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I have changed tzsetup to do this in base-config's cvs. It seems pretty sweet, but could use some more testing. /me compiles base-config from CVS... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
(Alastair, this is a discussion in -boot about countrychooser, a new d-i package, which makes use of your iso-codes package. I need to talk with you about some issues) Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): That's interesting. This is a place where cdebconf deviates from the debconf spec, apparently; , is the official list delimiter. I added the separating space, but I confirm that all works fine without it with cdebconf Well I was wondering about geographical drill-down, or just geographical groupings/headings in the list: Europe Germany France Spain ... America US Canada Mexico ... But like I said, I'll reserve comment until I've seen it. Well, the problem here is that we do not have a valuable source for doing this. ISO code lists do no give information about such zones. I think users in general are quite well aware of such long lists : these country lists are what you find on each and every form which asks you for your address (those which continue to list French Guyane near France). As long as the form is sorted, any user may easily find his country by typing the first letter of its official name which I hopê they're aware of. The *current* list is a bt broken, according to Alastair (who maintains the iso-codes packages it's taken from). For instance, Great-Britain is listed there as Britain which is obviously bugguy. I'm waiting for Alastair to release a new version of iso-codes with updated codes and translations. I will also ask him for a iso-3166-udeb package as countrychooser needs the iso-3166.tab file as reference. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Dia is Muire duit, (freelang is my friend..:-)) Am Sath, 2004-01-17 ag 08:47, scríobh Alastair McKinstry: I will also ask him for a iso-3166-udeb package as countrychooser needs the iso-3166.tab file as reference. Ok, that I can do. Should it just contain the .tab file, or the .po files too? I just need the tab file in /usr/share/iso-codes. The translations are used at build-time. I msgunformat them from *.mo files. This is why countrychooser build-depends on iso-codes. You mentioned me that you're working on translations updates. Can you notify me before uploading the new iso-codes so that I update french. Countrychooser build needs 100% translations for iso-3166.tab so that its own templates are completely translated. This is because po2debconf uses __Choices translation only when all choices are translated and unfuzzied. This will probably lead some input for you as iso-codes maintainer, because I will ask d-i translation teams to have a look at iso-codes translations for their own languages. If needed, and if this is too much overhead for you, I offer co-maintaining the package. (switch to IRC if needed) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Am Sath, 2004-01-17 ag 08:03, scrobh Christian Perrier: (Alastair, this is a discussion in -boot about countrychooser, a new d-i package, which makes use of your iso-codes package. I need to talk with you about some issues) Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): That's interesting. This is a place where cdebconf deviates from the debconf spec, apparently; , is the official list delimiter. I added the separating space, but I confirm that all works fine without it with cdebconf Well I was wondering about geographical drill-down, or just geographical groupings/headings in the list: Europe Germany France Spain ... America US Canada Mexico ... But like I said, I'll reserve comment until I've seen it. Well, the problem here is that we do not have a valuable source for doing this. ISO code lists do no give information about such zones. Yes. I want to avoid expanding the role of iso-codes at the moment, as it is designed to be a small component for many packages: its hard to convince a developer to bloat their package by making it depend on yours if you keep expanding your package to include new things. So I think the information about zones should stay in countrychooser for the moment. I think users in general are quite well aware of such long lists : these country lists are what you find on each and every form which asks you for your address (those which continue to list French Guyane near France). As long as the form is sorted, any user may easily find his country by typing the first letter of its official name which I hop they're aware of. The *current* list is a bt broken, according to Alastair (who maintains the iso-codes packages it's taken from). For instance, Great-Britain is listed there as Britain which is obviously bugguy. Yes. It should match the Great Britain returned from the locale, eg. that returned by nl_langinfo(), so you could do localised_ctryname = dgettext(iso_3166, nl_langinfo(_NL_IDENTIFICATION_TERRITORY)); I would also like iso_3166.tab to match /usr/share/zoneinfo/iso3166.tab (and so replace it later), but at the moment iso3166.tab uses Britain (UK), so at the moment these two goals conflict. Working on it. I'm waiting for Alastair to release a new version of iso-codes with updated codes and translations. I will also ask him for a iso-3166-udeb package as countrychooser needs the iso-3166.tab file as reference. Ok, that I can do. Should it just contain the .tab file, or the .po files too? - Alastair -- Sln agus Beannacht, Alastair Alastair McKinstry [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC 1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4 He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 11:44:20AM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Well I was wondering about geographical drill-down, or just geographical groupings/headings in the list: Europe Germany France Spain ... America US Canada Mexico ... But like I said, I'll reserve comment until I've seen it. This regional scheme is used by KDE when I start it for the first time. If we decide to use it, we may be able to reuse some of their work. -- Matt Kraai [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Matt Kraai wrote: On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 11:44:20AM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Well I was wondering about geographical drill-down, or just geographical groupings/headings in the list: Europe Germany France Spain ... America US Canada Mexico ... But like I said, I'll reserve comment until I've seen it. This regional scheme is used by KDE when I start it for the first time. If we decide to use it, we may be able to reuse some of their work. Speaking of which, someone should look into a way to make the KDE setup wizard be feed the debian-installer/country setting to avoid re-prompting for country. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Shouldn't there be spaces between the country names in the Choices list? Well, as this is automatically generated, I figured that this wasn't a problem. The file is only processed by cdebconf which is very happy with it as it is... I'm also concerned that this is a _very_ long list of countries to scroll through, but I have not actually ran the program yet. Well, for sure it is long, but this is the Official List of Countries in the World.removing some of these would throw us into very bad political problems. So let's be very politically correct and use all of them, including French Southern Territories... I'm pretty sure Debian is used in Terre Adélie or Kerguelen Islands by the folks of Météo French there...:-) So, our only hope is a world becoming a bit less crazy and stopping to create new countries monthly. Seriously speaking, the list sorting is more of a concern. I first need to add some sorting in English.and after this, we will be thrown in the known problem of translations sorting (which is not countrychooser specific, by the way) -look at other places which ask for a country (mirror location, timezone configuration) and adapt these for using debian-installer/country. However, the country list there is probably shorter than the world country list..:-) I wish we could somehow eliminate one of those other questions entirely, so the total number of questions asked by the installer remains the same. I wish so too. The choose-mirror country list is a first good target. The time zone configuraiton dialogs are not, probably because of the multiple timezones in some exotic countries..:-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
The mirror question, based on the wording and intent (pick someone topologically close to you, even if they're across the border), will need to stay, I think. I personnaly doubt that several users will choose something else than their own country. How many people in the world are able to know that, say, ftp.de.debian.org is topologically closer to them than ftp.fr.debian.org? Maybe, the mirror country question should have a lower priority. This would allow experts to use any mirror and common users to have one less question. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Steve Langasek wrote: I believe it should be possible to eliminate the extra timezone question for users in most countries, but this will take some work to script sanely. You're thinking about making it look at the country and boil that down to a list of timezones inside the country, I suppose. Using zone.tab for the mapping. Unfortunalty, some people will want GMT, and since someone could be doing something strange, I will probably need an other that falls back to the current drill down behavior. So that's a minimum of three entries in the list (many more for US, thank you Indiana), so debconf will still always display the question. But we do save one question overall this way, which nicely balances out the question added by splitting languagechooser. And I think time zone selection this way will be much less confusing -- I can never remember whether to choose America or US with the current system (the US's entries are actually split between them for maximum confusion); and when I want GMT, I often forget where it's hidden. Well this will be a nice little project. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Christian Perrier wrote: I personnaly doubt that several users will choose something else than their own country. How many people in the world are able to know that, say, ftp.de.debian.org is topologically closer to them than ftp.fr.debian.org? Maybe, the mirror country question should have a lower priority. This would allow experts to use any mirror and common users to have one less question. Maybe it should be smarter somehow -- do some basic testing of the route, if it seems excessively long/lossy, then re-ask with the full list. And yes, always ask with the full list in expert mode. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Christian Perrier wrote: Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Shouldn't there be spaces between the country names in the Choices list? Well, as this is automatically generated, I figured that this wasn't a problem. The file is only processed by cdebconf which is very happy with it as it is... That's interesting. This is a place where cdebconf deviates from the debconf spec, apparently; , is the official list delimiter. Well, for sure it is long, but this is the Official List of Countries in the World.removing some of these would throw us into very bad political problems. So let's be very politically correct and use all of them, including French Southern Territories... I'm pretty sure Debian is used in Terre Adélie or Kerguelen Islands by the folks of Météo French there...:-) So, our only hope is a world becoming a bit less crazy and stopping to create new countries monthly. Seriously speaking, the list sorting is more of a concern. I first need to add some sorting in English.and after this, we will be thrown in the known problem of translations sorting (which is not countrychooser specific, by the way) Well I was wondering about geographical drill-down, or just geographical groupings/headings in the list: Europe Germany France Spain ... America US Canada Mexico ... But like I said, I'll reserve comment until I've seen it. This is, to my mind, one of the few places where a GUI can really benefit an installer. Although those clicky world maps must be annoying for those who live in very small countries. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 09:42:34AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: The mirror question, based on the wording and intent (pick someone topologically close to you, even if they're across the border), will need to stay, I think. I personnaly doubt that several users will choose something else than their own country. How many people in the world are able to know that, say, ftp.de.debian.org is topologically closer to them than ftp.fr.debian.org? I gather that this is the sort of thing that's passed word-of-mouth among Debian users in the affected countries. Maybe, the mirror country question should have a lower priority. This would allow experts to use any mirror and common users to have one less question. Agreed. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 07:15:28AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: [...] I first need to add some sorting in English.and after this, we will be thrown in the known problem of translations sorting (which is not countrychooser specific, by the way) This requires changes in cdebconf, so you should not focus on it now. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
I wrote: You're thinking about making it look at the country and boil that down to a list of timezones inside the country, I suppose. Using zone.tab for the mapping. Unfortunalty, some people will want GMT, and since someone could be doing something strange, I will probably need an other that falls back to the current drill down behavior. I have changed tzsetup to do this in base-config's cvs. It seems pretty sweet, but could use some more testing. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
Shouldn't there be spaces between the country names in the Choices list? I'm also concerned that this is a _very_ long list of countries to scroll through, but I have not actually ran the program yet. -look at other places which ask for a country (mirror location, timezone configuration) and adapt these for using debian-installer/country. However, the country list there is probably shorter than the world country list..:-) I wish we could somehow eliminate one of those other questions entirely, so the total number of questions asked by the installer remains the same. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Countrychooser commited in CVS
On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 01:54:25PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: Shouldn't there be spaces between the country names in the Choices list? I'm also concerned that this is a _very_ long list of countries to scroll through, but I have not actually ran the program yet. -look at other places which ask for a country (mirror location, timezone configuration) and adapt these for using debian-installer/country. However, the country list there is probably shorter than the world country list..:-) I wish we could somehow eliminate one of those other questions entirely, so the total number of questions asked by the installer remains the same. I believe it should be possible to eliminate the extra timezone question for users in most countries, but this will take some work to script sanely. The mirror question, based on the wording and intent (pick someone topologically close to you, even if they're across the border), will need to stay, I think. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
