Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > Another idea would be ranking languages by number of speakers. > > And put Dutch way down the list? Never! :-P You don't care as all Dutch-speaking ppl I've met just say that they don't use Dutch translations because: - they prefer English (nl_NL version) - they don't like the way Dutch is used and anyway it's Flemish (nl_BE version) :-) More seriously, doing so is anyway quite unfair to some communities where the development and use of Debian and CDD is much wider than the population (hint: Finland). > Or maybe % of completed po-debconf translations? Or ... Yay, I vote for that one..:-). If we fall short on one, that could work quite well, yes. > I'd say that relative contribution to Debian would be a pretty fair > criterion, which probably would come close to justifying the list you > proposed... Just need to raise CJK a bit, then. > To be serious. The best solution would be to prioritize _within_ tasks. > Tasksel already supports "key" packages and "regular" packages. I entirely agree. This is quite a tedious task but would definitely help. Actually, I was not very keen about the difference between "key" and "regular" packages so most of the tasks (which I wrote quite quickly in the past) are not very consistent wrt this. > I could even see the introduction in tasksel of a third, call it "extra", > class that would list "nice to have, but no problem if it's not available" > packages" which are either ignored for debian-cd package sorting purposes > or are sorted after "regular" packages. I like this idea a little bit better than: > Or, alternatively, just creating -extra tasks that contain such > packages and are either listed lower down in task.list or not listed at all > (but that would possibly make language task selection in aptitude a bit > less obvious). which would lead to yet another series of tasks and related tedious maintenance bits for no real benefit. Implementing "extra" packages needs someone to do the work, though. > I also wondered about sorting all tasks before all -desktop > tasks, but am not sure if that would be logical or not. It could improve > basic language support for some languages lower down the list, but could > also result in just more manpages packages being sorted early. I have no strong advice here: IMHO, anyway, except for "historical" languages (mostly european and CJK), the vast majority of users insisting on a localized environment will choose a desktop taskand then get the -desktop task. > Anyway, my conclusion is that improvements should not be sought by fighting > over the sort order, but by improving the way packages between and within > tasks are prioritized. In different words: by having a very clear policy of > how task files should be written and ensuring that this is done > consistently for all languages. Yes. We currently have nothing and thngs are far from being consistent. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
(Dropping CC to debian-cd list) On Tuesday 18 December 2007, Christian Perrier wrote: > Here's a first proposal. Languages are (roughly) grouped by families > (some families could be debatable). Thanks. > Drawback: why should we put West European first and South Asian or > African last? There is indeed no reason except our western-centric > minds..:-) > > Another idea would be ranking languages by number of speakers. And put Dutch way down the list? Never! :-P Or maybe % of completed po-debconf translations? Or ... I'd say that relative contribution to Debian would be a pretty fair criterion, which probably would come close to justifying the list you proposed... Any grouping (including alphabetical sorting) is going to be unfair to some. To me your proposal makes sense, though I might have put CJK languages a bit higher myself. See below for some further thoughts. To be serious. The best solution would be to prioritize _within_ tasks. Tasksel already supports "key" packages and "regular" packages. IMO it's not really fair that French manpages (random example) come before essential Malayalam desktop support. debian-cd actually respects that distinction by sorting all key packages for all tasks _before_ all regular packages for all tasks. The malayalam-desktop task currently looks as follows: Key: Packages: task-fields Packages-list: ttf-malayalam-fonts scim-tables-additional scim-gtk2-immodule openoffice.org-l10n-ml-in I think a good case could be made for at least the first of those to be made a key package. Not sure about the scim-* packages as I don't know how exactly they are used. The openoffice l10n package should clearly remain as a regular package. I could even see the introduction in tasksel of a third, call it "extra", class that would list "nice to have, but no problem if it's not available" packages" which are either ignored for debian-cd package sorting purposes or are sorted after "regular" packages. Or, alternatively, just creating -extra tasks that contain such packages and are either listed lower down in task.list or not listed at all (but that would possibly make language task selection in aptitude a bit less obvious). I also wondered about sorting all tasks before all -desktop tasks, but am not sure if that would be logical or not. It could improve basic language support for some languages lower down the list, but could also result in just more manpages packages being sorted early. Anyway, my conclusion is that improvements should not be sought by fighting over the sort order, but by improving the way packages between and within tasks are prioritized. In different words: by having a very clear policy of how task files should be written and ensuring that this is done consistently for all languages. IIRC another improvement that could be made includes further splitting the desktop tasks into desktop, desktop-gnome, desktop-kde and desktop-xfce tasks. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > 2) Currently the order of languages seems to be alphabetical, which means > languages with "high" letters will have a higher chance of being pushed off > the 1st/2nd/3rd CD or off the 1st DVD. Should we maybe use a a somewhat > more intelligent grouping of languages so that at least similar/related > languages can be expected to be supported by the same images? Here's a first proposal. Languages are (roughly) grouped by families (some families could be debatable). Drawback: why should we put West European first and South Asian or African last? There is indeed no reason except our western-centric minds..:-) Another idea would be ranking languages by number of speakers. Or maybe use popcon (are there popularity rankings for tasks?). # Main tasks gnome-desktop desktop web-server laptop mail-server print-server database-server dns-server file-server # Language tasks # Commented out means the language is currently not supported in D-I # West and North European (Latin-1 based) basque-desktop brazilian-portuguese brazilian-portuguese-desktop catalan catalan-desktop danish danish-desktop dutch dutch-desktop esperanto-desktop finnish finnish-desktop french french-desktop galician galician-desktop german german-desktop #icelandic #icelandic-desktop #irish #irish-desktop italian italian-desktop northern-sami-desktop norwegian norwegian-desktop portuguese portuguese-desktop spanish spanish-desktop swedish swedish-desktop #welsh #welsh-desktop # Central and East-European (mostly Latin-2 based) croatian croatian-desktop czech czech-desktop estonian-desktop greek greek-desktop hungarian hungarian-desktop latvian-desktop lithuanian lithuanian-desktop polish polish-desktop romanian romanian-desktop slovak slovak-desktop slovenian slovenian-desktop turkish turkish-desktop # Caucasian georgian-desktop # Cyrillic belarusian belarusian-desktop bulgarian bulgarian-desktop cyrillic cyrillic-desktop macedonian macedonian-desktop russian russian-desktop #serbian #serbian-desktop ukrainian ukrainian-desktop # Arabic-script and RTL arabic arabic-desktop hebrew hebrew-desktop persian persian-desktop # CJK chinese-s chinese-s-desktop chinese-t chinese-t-desktop japanese japanese-desktop korean korean-desktop # Indic and South-Asia bengali bengali-desktop dzongkha-desktop gujarati-desktop hindi hindi-desktop malayalam-desktop nepali-desktop punjabi punjabi-desktop tamil tamil-desktop # South-East Asia khmer khmer-desktop tagalog thai thai-desktop vietnamese-desktop # African #xhosa-desktop # Alternative desktop environments kde-desktop xfce-desktop signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
On Tuesday 18 December 2007, Christian Perrier wrote: > Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > Added (in alphabetical order). > > Christian: please also consider my other question about the sort order. > > Yes, still in TODO..:-) OK > To be sure: you expect me to provide a list with a "natural" sorting, > right? A proposal for that would be great. > I also need to add a section in D-I l10n manual that includes things > that should be done when a new language is "activated" in > D-I. Managing tasks.list (and take care to check if there are tasks > for that language would belong to that section). Yes, and maybe some info on what happens when tasks are added or modified. The task lists used by debian-cd don't get updated automatically. It's rather a semi-automated process that's normally run when D-I/Debian releases are being prepared, so if updates are needed at other times, they will probably need to be requested by tasksel's maintainers. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Added (in alphabetical order). > Christian: please also consider my other question about the sort order. Yes, still in TODO..:-) To be sure: you expect me to provide a list with a "natural" sorting, right? I also need to add a section in D-I l10n manual that includes things that should be done when a new language is "activated" in D-I. Managing tasks.list (and take care to check if there are tasks for that language would belong to that section). signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
On Monday 17 December 2007, Christian Perrier wrote: > Actually, active tasks, for languages that we really propose in D-I, > that are missing in tasks.list are: Added (in alphabetical order). Christian: please also consider my other question about the sort order. I saw that Joey committed my suggested fix for tasksel too. So, when that gets uploaded, Malajalam should hopefully get a correct desktop. > Tasks listed in tasks.list, but related to languages that are *not* > active in D-I (those could maybe be removed): Commented out. Cheers, FJP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Christian: > 1) Could you check whether there are other l10n tasks missing (and propose a > patch for debian-cd)? Actually, active tasks, for languages that we really propose in D-I, that are missing in tasks.list are: gujarati-desktop malayalam-desktop tamil (tamil-desktop is OK) Tasks listed in tasks.list, but related to languages that are *not* active in D-I (those could maybe be removed): icelandic icelandic-desktop irish irish-desktop serbian serbian-desktop welsh welsh-desktop xhosa-desktop signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Hmm. I see that malayalam tasks are currently not listed in the tasks.list > file for debian-cd [1]. They'd need to be added there. > > Christian: > 1) Could you check whether there are other l10n tasks missing (and propose a > patch for debian-cd)? Will dowhen possible That should indeed be added to the list of actions to be taken when a language is activated in D-I. This could be a new section in D-I l10n documentation, probably. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
On Sunday 16 December 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> Yes. _If_ you selected to also use a mirror during installation, I would
> expect that to happen. Unless there is some kind of problem with the
> language (locale) test in tasksel that selects the l10n tasks for
> Malayalam.
It looks like there is a bug in tests/lang in tasksel.
The following line seems to be failing and thus prevents any language task
to match for Malayalam:
fulllang=$(expr "$LANG" : '\(.*\)\.')
Probably the expr is failing as the test is being called with LANG=ml_IN,
which means that there is no ".UTF8" suffix which causes the 'expr' to fail
and the script to exit because of the 'set -e'.
IIRC there are several other locales that are UTF-8 by default and thus do
not have any encoding postfix.
Not sure what the correct solution is as $fulllang should probably be set
to "ml_IN". Maybe we should use the following lines instead:
baselang=${LANG%%_*}
fulllang=${LANG%%.*}
(which is the same as is used in localechooser).
I've done a test with that and it seems to work.
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Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
On Sunday 16 December 2007, Praveen A wrote: > 2007/12/16, Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Are the Malayalam desktop packages included on the DVD (check under the > > pool/main/ subdirectory)? > > The DVD contains ttf-indic-fonts directory and it has devanagari > (hindi), panjabi, tamil and bengali fonts. Malayalam is missing from > there. > > scim-tables folder does not have scim-tables-additional package (which > contains all the indic stuff). > > Can these two packages be added to the DVD? We do not add individual packages to CDs. Instead we list the tasks that should be added. Hmm. I see that malayalam tasks are currently not listed in the tasks.list file for debian-cd [1]. They'd need to be added there. Christian: 1) Could you check whether there are other l10n tasks missing (and propose a patch for debian-cd)? 2) Currently the order of languages seems to be alphabetical, which means languages with "high" letters will have a higher chance of being pushed off the 1st/2nd/3rd CD or off the 1st DVD. Should we maybe use a a somewhat more intelligent grouping of languages so that at least similar/related languages can be expected to be supported by the same images? > But then it should get it from the mirror, right? Yes. _If_ you selected to also use a mirror during installation, I would expect that to happen. Unless there is some kind of problem with the language (locale) test in tasksel that selects the l10n tasks for Malayalam. [1]http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-cd/trunk/tasks/task.list?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
2007/12/16, Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Of course, you did choose the desktop task, right? > Of course I did, I got the gdm screen with empty boxes after reboot. > Can you look in /var/log/installer on the installed system? > That is where I saw the mirror being setup. Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
2007/12/16, Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Are the Malayalam desktop packages included on the DVD (check under the > pool/main/ subdirectory)? The DVD contains ttf-indic-fonts directory and it has devanagari (hindi), panjabi, tamil and bengali fonts. Malayalam is missing from there. scim-tables folder does not have scim-tables-additional package (which contains all the indic stuff). Can these two packages be added to the DVD? But then it should get it from the mirror, right? Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
On Sunday 16 December 2007, Praveen A wrote: > I have downloaded the lenny DVD image from last week and installed > the Desktop in Malayalam. Even though the malayalam-desktop task lists > ttf-malayalam-fonts and I have used a network mirror during the > install, I ended up being with a system without Malayalam fonts and > the gdm greeted me with many empty boxes. Are the Malayalam desktop packages included on the DVD (check under the pool/main/ subdirectory)? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Praveen A ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > 2007/12/16, Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Are other packages from malayalam-desktop installed? > > > > scim-tables-additional > > scim-gtk2-immodule > > openoffice.org-l10n-ml-in > > No, none of them got installed. I can see the online repos setup in > the syslog. I could not see any mention of malayalam-desktop anywhere > in syslog. Of course, you did choose the desktop task, right? Can you look in /var/log/installer on the installed system? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
2007/12/16, Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Are other packages from malayalam-desktop installed? > > scim-tables-additional > scim-gtk2-immodule > openoffice.org-l10n-ml-in No, none of them got installed. I can see the online repos setup in the syslog. I could not see any mention of malayalam-desktop anywhere in syslog. Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign
Re: Malayalam fonts are not getting installed
Quoting Praveen A ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Hi, > > I have downloaded the lenny DVD image from last week and installed > the Desktop in Malayalam. Even though the malayalam-desktop task lists > ttf-malayalam-fonts and I have used a network mirror during the > install, I ended up being with a system without Malayalam fonts and > the gdm greeted me with many empty boxes. > > Can anyone help me figure out what could be missing here? Are other packages from malayalam-desktop installed ? scim-tables-additional scim-gtk2-immodule openoffice.org-l10n-ml-in signature.asc Description: Digital signature
