Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
Quoting Tetralet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): As long as this iso-3166 translation in zh_TW is incomplete, you will be presented with the English name list... which you don't like, when choosing zh_TW. So, go ahead and finish the zh_TW translation of iso_3166. I'm very willing to do it. Well, as you may have read, this won't stop the problem as the short list is still untanslated. We need one good perl/shell/whatever wizard who finds a solution for translating the built-on-the-fly short list For sure, people using English will still see the name you don't like. Some, probably of Chinese (or probably Taiwanese) origin, will probably even complain about this. We will point them to http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/10faq/frequently-asked-questions.html#QS03. That's the problem. Maybe we are too self-will, But some of us still think that it is not acceptable. Well, I'm unfortunately pretty sure that whatever solution we find to this, some people will still think this is not acceptable as long as the solution does not implement their own solution. For those people who think that this wil remain unacceptable and insist on replacing the current name, I will politely ask them to also propose a new names for FYROM, Palestinian territory, occupied, Lybian Arab Jimahiriya.of course, the solution has to be accepted by all involved parties The National Geographic Atlas has unfortunately less legitimity than ISO in my eyes for defining international standards. NGA is a USA organisation with, from my point of view, a quite oriented way of approaching things (should I mention the censorship stories which happened in their publications). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
Well, I'm unfortunately pretty sure that whatever solution we find to
this, some people will still think this is not acceptable as long as
the solution does not implement their own solution.
I'd think so.
Is this passible iso-codes package offer a short name for the country code?
I mean, the name of TW is Taiwan, Province of China,
But the short name of TW is Taiwan.
In Debian-Installer, it always shows the short name.
And what the short name should be depends on each translator's preference.
And, How about the icu-data package?
(Please vist http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2004/debian-boot-200404/msg00520.html)
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Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
As long as this iso-3166 translation in zh_TW is incomplete,
you will be presented with the English name list...
which you don't like, when choosing zh_TW.
So, go ahead and finish the zh_TW translation of iso_3166.
I'm very willing to do it.
But...
For sure,
people using English will still see the name you don't like.
Some, probably of Chinese (or probably Taiwanese) origin,
will probably even complain about this.
We will point them to
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/10faq/frequently-asked-questions.html#QS03.
That's the problem.
Maybe we are too self-will,
But some of us still think that it is not acceptable.
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Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 11:27:05PM -0800, Anthony Johnson wrote: --- Carlos Z.F. Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 05:48:43PM -0800, Anthony Johnson wrote: No, some of you did, but more don't(especially people in China mainland), AFAIK. As a chinese, I think most people in mainland won't mind using Taiwan I am also Chinese(please do not use 'chinese') I don't think so. Many people do mind here. So, you should kick CCTV and communist party's ass, before you speak here. IIRC, They alway said Chen Shui-Bian as Taiwan's leader, not Taiwan province's leader. They said that Taiwan is a part of China, but never use Taiwan province is a part of China. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 08:27:38AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: Hmmm, yes, that is indeed right. We never found a way to solve this as the short list is built on the fly. But, there is AFAIK no bug report about this.or if there is one, it is not assigned to countrychooser. Someone should report one, just for the record. OK, I reported it, just for the record. Thanks. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
--- Carlos Z.F. Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, you should kick CCTV and communist party's ass, before you speak here. IIRC, They alway said Chen Shui-Bian as You should go back to China mainland and ask for people there. IIRC, you are NOT located in China mainland, right? BTW: Do not compare windoze xp with Debian, windoze won't let people like you complain on an open development mailing list again and again. Taiwan's leader, not Taiwan province's leader. They said that Taiwan is a part of China, but never use Taiwan province is a part of China. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
My original question is:
Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country,
Even though it will hurt some people, like people who living in Taiwan?
And I think your answer is YES.
We, the debian users in Taiwan, Hongkong and mainland China, have
discussed about this for several days.
You may visit http://moto.debian.org.tw/viewtopic.php?t=3192 for more
details.
We all consent that to replace Taiwan with Taiwan, Province of China
is not suitable.
It don't match to the real political situation,
And it will bring a mountain of political disputes.
People who install Debian via debian-installer will find that Taiwan
was replaced with Taiwan, Province of China.
They may not detect immediately that this country code is based on ISO-3166,
But they will think that Debian is discriminating against Taiwan people.
It will not be a very good first impression to Debian users.
And, It is a gross disparagement to Taiwan people.
Thus some of us may refuse to use Debian anymore.
Sorry, but I think it is necessary to repeat again,
I suggest that debian-installer should not use the data form iso-codes
package as country code.
We should try to found something else to replace the iso-codes package
in debian-installer.
Tetralet
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Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 04:17:05AM +0800, Tetralet wrote: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country, Even though it will hurt some people, like people who living in Taiwan? And I think your answer is YES. We, the debian users in Taiwan, Hongkong and mainland China, have discussed about this for several days. You may visit http://moto.debian.org.tw/viewtopic.php?t=3192 for more details. We all consent that to replace Taiwan with Taiwan, Province of China is not suitable. It don't match to the real political situation, And it will bring a mountain of political disputes. People who install Debian via debian-installer will find that Taiwan was replaced with Taiwan, Province of China. They may not detect immediately that this country code is based on ISO-3166, But they will think that Debian is discriminating against Taiwan people. It will not be a very good first impression to Debian users. Will these users be installing using English or Traditional Chinese as the language? -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
D Domh, 2004-04-04 ag 04:17 +0800, scrobh Tetralet:
My original question is:
Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country,
Even though it will hurt some people, like people who living in Taiwan?
And I think your answer is YES.
People who install Debian via debian-installer will find that Taiwan
was replaced with Taiwan, Province of China.
They may not detect immediately that this country code is based on ISO-3166,
But they will think that Debian is discriminating against Taiwan people.
It will not be a very good first impression to Debian users.
As has been noted in previous discussions on this subject, it is
basically impossible to draw up a list of countries and their names that
does not insult somebody. For Debian, picking an official list, (and
ISO-3166 is _the_ offfical list) is pretty much the only solution.
Please update the zh_TW entries, as discussed before. D-I is designed
that the first question people see is the Language; if they pick zh_CN
they should _not_see Province_of_China.
Regards,
Alastair
Tetralet
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Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
--- Tetralet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We, the debian users in Taiwan, Hongkong and mainland China, have discussed about this for several days. We all consent that to replace Taiwan with Taiwan, Province of China is not suitable. No, some of you did, but more don't(especially people in China mainland), AFAIK. As already discussed several times here: There is no way to satisfy everybody. Debian should not participate in this kind of arguments. We have to choose names from some standards body somewhere, and no matter what we do somebody will disagree. -- as Colin has said. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 02:28:49PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: Will these users be installing using English or Traditional Chinese as the language? Unfortunately, even you choose Traditional Chinese in languagechooser, you will still get english country/area names in the next screen. You can see translated names in full country list only. It's an old bug since countrychooser was change to current style. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 05:48:43PM -0800, Anthony Johnson wrote: No, some of you did, but more don't(especially people in China mainland), AFAIK. As a chinese, I think most people in mainland won't mind using Taiwan here. Even in many governmental newspapers, they also use Taiwan directly sometimes. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
Quoting Carlos Z.F. Liu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Unfortunately, even you choose Traditional Chinese in languagechooser, you will still get english country/area names in the next screen. You can see translated names in full country list only. It's an old bug since countrychooser was change to current style. Hmmm, yes, that is indeed right. We never found a way to solve this as the short list is built on the fly. But, there is AFAIK no bug report about this.or if there is one, it is not assigned to countrychooser. Someone should report one, just for the record. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
Quoting Tetralet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): You may visit http://moto.debian.org.tw/viewtopic.php?t=3192 for more details. Provided you read Chinese..:-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
Then use the translated iso-codes in countrychooser --- Carlos Z.F. Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 02:28:49PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: Will these users be installing using English or Traditional Chinese as the language? Unfortunately, even you choose Traditional Chinese in languagechooser, you will still get english country/area names in the next screen. You can see translated names in full country list only. It's an old bug since countrychooser was change to current style. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Must debian-installer use iso-codes package when choosing country?
--- Carlos Z.F. Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 05:48:43PM -0800, Anthony Johnson wrote: No, some of you did, but more don't(especially people in China mainland), AFAIK. As a chinese, I think most people in mainland won't mind using Taiwan I am also Chinese(please do not use 'chinese') I don't think so. Many people do mind here. here. Even in many governmental newspapers, they also use Taiwan This is just short name, not as the same case in d-i. directly sometimes. -- Best Regards, Carlos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
