Re: Activate Catalan support (was: translation statistics)

[Jordi Mallach]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 05:10:04PM +0100, Claus Hindsgaul wrote:
> > How can there be 774 up-to-date strings out of 769?  Are strings which are
> > no longer used considered up-to-date?
> Very, very good question!
> 
> It turns out, that ca.po is not mentioned in the Makefile, and thus not
> syncronized by "make update-po" (or used at all for anything!).

This is on purpose. I didn't want to activate this until the rest of the
stuff is in (sysvinit messages, etc).

> After correcting this (please do so in CVS - also in /documentation/config),
> doing a new "make update-po" , the correct number turns out to be 718, not
> 774 --- still much better than the average :-)

718? Ouch...

Gah, I see if I can commit this during the week.

Jordi
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Re: Translation statistics

[Jordi Mallach]

On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:15:18PM +0100, Claus Hindsgaul wrote:
> Code date   translated up-to-date strings (out of 769)
> > ca  2001-10-15  774
> 
> Regarding the syslinux boot messages, the translations of e.g. debian.txt on 
> the rescue floppy have only been touched by a few languages since the 
> original english one was edited at June 5., namlely:
> sv, ko, de, gl and da.

The Catalan messages are translated, pending one last revision and
commit.

> The figure is even worse for the install manual. *No* languages but fr, de 
> and da have touched welcome.sgml since February!

In the same way, Catalan has a Potato manual done, and Woody is
finished too, pending a final review before I commit.

I'll throw some hours on it this week to put everything ready for commit.

Jordi
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Activate Catalan support (was: translation statistics)

[Claus Hindsgaul]

Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:15:18PM +0100, Claus Hindsgaul wrote:
>
> > Code date   translated up-to-date strings (out of 769)
> > > ca  2001-10-15  774
>
> How can there be 774 up-to-date strings out of 769?  Are strings which are
> no longer used considered up-to-date?

Very, very good question!

It turns out, that ca.po is not mentioned in the Makefile, and thus not
syncronized by "make update-po" (or used at all for anything!).

After correcting this (please do so in CVS - also in /documentation/config),
doing a new "make update-po" , the correct number turns out to be 718, not
774 --- still much better than the average :-)

Claus Hindsgaul





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Re: Translation statistics

[Kjetil Torgrim Homme]

Claus Hindsgaul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> You are completely right. It is more a convenience than a "must" for
> Danes (and other Scandinavians) to have their very own
> translations. The absence of a Danish (or Scandinavian) translation
> should'nt disable many scandinavians from installing Debian. But it
> would be easier for most native speakers and thus invite more to
> actually do it.
> And e.g. the Danish GNU-skole (GNU for Schools) find it very
> important to have real Danish translations in order to introduce
> Danish kids (and teachers) to Linux.

We have a project called Skolelinux in Norway, we will be making our
own CD and floppy images so that Norwegian (nynorsk and bokmål) and
possibly Sami are the only available choices.  Since our target is
well defined, we can get rid of some questions (keyboard layout,
timezone).  Our dream is to have no more than three questions from
bootup until working desktop :-) So far we've been concentrating on
translating the desktop and surveying educational software, though.

> If enough localisations of boot-floppies get up-to-date, we ought to
> consider splitting up the international floppies into two with
> different groups of locales built in.

I think Achim Bohnet's idea of a small boot-cdrom is a good one,
floppy drives are going away from consumer machines soon, anyway.  If
we can use a 2.88 MB root.bin, this problem goes away for most people.


Kjetil T.


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Re: Translation statistics

[Claus Hindsgaul]

Kjetil Torgrim Homme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Also, a large number of Danes, Swedes and Norwegians know English (or
> German/French) reasonably well, so it isn't that critical, IMHO.
>
> Either Swedish or Danish is OK for Scandinavians.  As a data point,
> Sun chose to support only Swedish with full documentation in Solaris.

You are completely right. It is more a convenience than a "must" for Danes
(and other Scandinavians) to have their very own translations. The absence
of a Danish (or Scandinavian) translation should'nt disable many
scandinavians from installing Debian. But it would be easier for most native
speakers and thus invite more to actually do it.
And e.g. the Danish GNU-skole (GNU for Schools) find it very important to
have real Danish translations in order to introduce Danish kids (and
teachers) to Linux.

If enough localisations of boot-floppies get up-to-date, we ought to
consider splitting up the international floppies into two with different
groups of locales built in.

Claus Hindsgaul


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Re: Translation statistics

[Claus Hindsgaul]

peter karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
Pine.LNX.4.33.090719030.30706-10@perkele">news:Pine.LNX.4.33.090719030.30706-10@perkele...
> If someone could tell me, say, one or two days before the releases of
> the package, I could keep them up-to-date at all times. Now I generally
> hear about new releases too late...

Maybe the project should as a routine send out warnings to all the listed
translation maintainers, when a new deadline is known?

> Regarding Swedish; there is no Swedish translation of the install
> manual. I have selected not to do that (translating www.debian.org,
> boot-floppies and dpkg is enough for one person). Besides, if that one
> is available in Danish, translating it into Swedish wouldn't add that
> much.

I very much encourage you to.
It is "work in fast progress" :). All of the manual (except
dselect-beginners.sgml and a inst-methods.sgml) has been completely
translated for the i386 case. I skipped other architecture specific sections
in the first pass in order to be sure to meet the deadline in the common
case. I intent to do these sections a little later.

You can "steal" the newest versions (newer than CVS) at:
http://home.worldonline.dk/~claus_h/deb_man/sgml/

I consider welcoms.sgml, hardware.sgml, post-install.sgml, tech-info.sgml
and administrativa.sgml complete(for ALL architectures).


Claus


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Re: Translation statistics

[Philip Blundell]

In message , peter karlsson w
rites:
>Speaking of including the Swedish translation or not; I might have
>missed parts of this, but is it only on the floppy based installation
>that the language list will be truncated? On the cd based installation,
>there will not be a limitiation, right?

Right now, the limitation applies across the board.  I think it would be possible to 
work around it, by creating an oversize root.bin to be used for CD/net booting, but 
I'm not totally sure whether it's worth it.

Architectures that don't support floppy booting can just include all the languages 
anyway.  Their root.bin won't fit on a 1.44MB disk that way but it probably doesn't 
matter.

p.


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Re: Translation statistics

[peter karlsson]

Claus Hindsgaul:

> Yes, you are right. I do not know how tight we need to prioritize. I
> vote for Swedish too. They both have dbootstrap and the boot disk
> text files translated, and quite well updated (se below).

If someone could tell me, say, one or two days before the releases of
the package, I could keep them up-to-date at all times. Now I generally
hear about new releases too late...

Speaking of including the Swedish translation or not; I might have
missed parts of this, but is it only on the floppy based installation
that the language list will be truncated? On the cd based installation,
there will not be a limitiation, right?

> The figure is even worse for the install manual. *No* languages but
> fr, de and da have touched welcome.sgml since February!

Regarding Swedish; there is no Swedish translation of the install
manual. I have selected not to do that (translating www.debian.org,
boot-floppies and dpkg is enough for one person). Besides, if that one
is available in Danish, translating it into Swedish wouldn't add that
much.

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Re: Translation statistics

[Claus Hindsgaul]

søndag den 18. november 2001 23:29 skrev Philip Blundell:
> Perhaps it would be a good idea to ask for help over on debian-i18n?  Some 
of 
> the original translators may have lost interest or just dropped off 
> debian-boot in the meantime.


Brilliant idea! Done!

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Re: Translation statistics

[Philip Blundell]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Claus Hindsgaul writes:
>I hope this can encourage other translators to update the support for their
>languages. Some may simply have waited for the next release to come closer
>before doing this. Well, it seems it is just around the corner now!

Perhaps it would be a good idea to ask for help over on debian-i18n?  Some of 
the original translators may have lost interest or just dropped off 
debian-boot in the meantime.

p.


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Re: Translation statistics

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:15:18PM +0100, Claus Hindsgaul wrote:

> Code date   translated up-to-date strings (out of 769)
> > ca  2001-10-15  774

How can there be 774 up-to-date strings out of 769?  Are strings which are
no longer used considered up-to-date?

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Re: Translation statistics

[Chris Tillman]

On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:15:18PM +0100, Claus Hindsgaul wrote:
> The figure is even worse for the install manual. *No* languages but fr, de 
> and da have touched welcome.sgml since February!

There were major non-fluff revisions, the potato words are in many
cases just not right for woody. Users will have problems if they are
not updated!
 
> I hope this can encourage other translators to update the support for their 
> languages. Some may simply have waited for the next release to come closer 
> before doing this. Well, it seems it is just around the corner now!
 
Me too!

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Translation statistics

[Claus Hindsgaul]

søndag den 18. november 2001 15:27 skrev Philip Blundell:
> >I'm not confident, that it is fair that e.g. Japan is ranking that low on
> >the list.
> According to http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=JPN there are 
126 million Japanese speakers worldwide, against about 5.5 million for 
Danish. 

You got my point :-)

> Even here in Europe, it looks to me like Swedish might have a stronger case 
for inclusion than Danish.

Yes, you are right. I do not know how tight we need to prioritize. I vote for 
Swedish too. They both have dbootstrap and the boot disk text files 
translated, and quite well updated (se below).

> One other thing: some of the translations look like they might be out of 
date.
> Here's a summary of the PO-Revision-Dates from the .po files.  I don't know 

I have added the number of translated stings to your list below. dbootstrap 
currently (CVS) contain 769 translatable strings. I know it's a bit unfair; I 
updated the da.po yesterday :-)

Code date   translated up-to-date strings (out of 769)
> ca  2001-10-15  774
> cs  2000-11-30  471
> da  2001-11-15   768
> de  2001-08-21  766
> eo  2000-12-19  484
> es  2000-11-30  663
> fi  2000-12-17  489
> fr  1999-03-21  450
> gl  2001-10-07  769
> hr  2001-09-01  680
> hu  2001-01-01  643
> it  1999-11-16  230
> ja  2001-10-29  568
> ko  2001-08-05  623
> pl  2001-05-17  526
> pt  2000-07-10  577
> ru  2001-11-14  529
> sk  ?   219
> sv  2001-10-22  766
> tr  2001-17-03  484
> zh  2001-01-15  488

Someone with CVS-access should update the po-files:
# rm dbootstrap.pot
# make dbootstrap.pot
# make update-po

(the numbers above was found after such an update by issuing
'msgformat --statistics xx.po')

Based on the numbers above, I would suggest removing sk and it immediatly 
from the internationalised boot floppies in any case, since two thirds of the 
strings will appear in english anyway. (Or better, of course, update these 
translations).
Even the ja and pl users must find it very messy to use the mixed language 
interface, and prefer to go with the english one for now.


Regarding the syslinux boot messages, the translations of e.g. debian.txt on 
the rescue floppy have only been touched by a few languages since the 
original english one was edited at June 5., namlely:
sv, ko, de, gl and da.


The figure is even worse for the install manual. *No* languages but fr, de 
and da have touched welcome.sgml since February!


I hope this can encourage other translators to update the support for their 
languages. Some may simply have waited for the next release to come closer 
before doing this. Well, it seems it is just around the corner now!

-- 
Claus Hindsgaul


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