Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
Paul Gevers wrote: > On 20-05-2023 16:21, Justin B Rye wrote: > > When do we stop producing official Release Notes? > > You mean when do we stop accepting changes to the Release Notes and stop > building them? Once the release is EOL. However, I don't expect a lot of > people to look for new versions after a while. You can still find the old > release notes on-line. I was just wondering if it was standard procedure for the last set of Release Notes for a given arch to announce that that's what they are. Given how arch qualification works, this could be tricky; but of course we might still consider i386 a special case. -- JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
Hi, On 20-05-2023 16:21, Justin B Rye wrote: When do we stop producing official Release Notes? You mean when do we stop accepting changes to the Release Notes and stop building them? Once the release is EOL. However, I don't expect a lot of people to look for new versions after a while. You can still find the old release notes on-line. Paul OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
On Sat, 20 May 2023 15:21:49 +0100 Justin B Rye wrote: > Perhaps the angle the Release Notes should be taking on this is to > announce what's going to happen for dist-upgrades to trixie/forkie. > When do we stop producing official Release Notes? That was my aim too. Think people would welcome as much notice of support going away - i dont think the thread has concluded you cant dist-upgrade i386 after bookworm, but it might get quite close to that for many user I've added a MR to better track comments on this here: https://salsa.debian.org/ddp-team/release-notes/-/merge_requests/171
Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
RL wrote:
> Ansgar writes:
>> On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 15:03 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>>> My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images
>>> for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going
>>> forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie
>>> ~immediately after the release.
>>
>> I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm,
>> possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in
>> Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm).
>
> I suspect few would re-read 2.1 on upgrade... but is release-notes is
> the best place to document what new installs can use? (maybe doesnt
> matter as there wont be any new installs!)
I would expect a debian-announce message when it happens.
>> Maybe something along these lines:
>>
>> +---
>> | Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing
>> | full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support
>> | i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386.
>> |
>> | We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded
>> | to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch,
>> | chroot environments or containers.
>> +---
>
> We already have a bit about i386 now meaning i686, but i think OK to
> keep separate as that one is bookworm, and this is for the future
>
> Adding links to explain jargon and adding markup: im hope ive got the right
> arch-related entities right here...
>
>
>
> Bookworm is the last Debian release with full support for &arch-title;
>
>
Title lines don't need to be full sentences; this could be just
"&arch-title; support to be reduced from trixie".
>
> The next release, trixie, will not have full support for the
> &architecture; architecture, for example there will be no official
> installer.
>
Do we need a mention of the reason (i.e. that an increasing number of
upstreams are no longer supporting it)?
Perhaps the angle the Release Notes should be taking on this is to
announce what's going to happen for dist-upgrades to trixie/forkie.
When do we stop producing official Release Notes?
>
> Debian recommends converting systems using the &architecture;
> architecture to the 64-bit
> PC architecture (known as amd64) before bookworm
> becomes unsupported:
How about "https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading";? I was worried that it
might be a pre-systemd relic, but apparently not.
> most computers manufactured since 2000 can use
> amd64.
I'd have guessed later, given that the i386 arch held the lead in
popcon until 2012 ("https://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2012/17/";), but
this may just be because I use junk hardware.
>
>
> You can still run legacy 32-bit software on 64-bit systems using url="&url-wiki;SystemVirtualization">containers
>
> or in url="&url-wiki;Multiarch/HOWTO">multi-arch
> chroots.
>
>
>
> (but shld use the &url-wiki; entity for wiki links)
>
> Perhaps https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995397 (Xen no
> longer supports 32-bit Xen PV guests) also relevent to the last para.
It would make a relevant link for the "increasing number of upstreams"
I was mentioning.
--
JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
Ansgar writes: > On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 15:03 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: >> My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images >> for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going >> forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie >> ~immediately after the release. > > I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm, > possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in > Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm). I suspect few would re-read 2.1 on upgrade... but is release-notes is the best place to document what new installs can use? (maybe doesnt matter as there wont be any new installs!) > Maybe something along these lines: > > +--- > | Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing > | full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support > | i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386. > | > | We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded > | to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch, > | chroot environments or containers. > +--- We already have a bit about i386 now meaning i686, but i think OK to keep separate as that one is bookworm, and this is for the future Adding links to explain jargon and adding markup: im hope ive got the right arch-related entities right here... Bookworm is the last Debian release with full support for &arch-title; The next release, trixie, will not have full support for the &architecture; architecture, for example there will be no official installer. Debian recommends converting systems using the &architecture; architecture to the 64-bit PC architecture (known as amd64) before bookworm becomes unsupported: most computers manufactured since 2000 can use amd64. You can still run legacy 32-bit software on 64-bit systems using containers or in multi-arch chroots. (but shld use the &url-wiki; entity for wiki links) Perhaps https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995397 (Xen no longer supports 32-bit Xen PV guests) also relevent to the last para.
Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386
Package: release-notes X-Debbugs-Cc: Steve McIntyre , debian-de...@lists.debian.org On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 15:03 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: > I had been thinking about doing similar for installer images too, but > with other work going on too I think it got too late in the cycle to > make that change. My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images > for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going > forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie > ~immediately after the release. I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm, possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm). Maybe something along these lines: +--- | Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing | full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support | i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386. | | We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded | to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch, | chroot environments or containers. +--- Ansgar
