Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
Hi, The reason for not depending on the plugin packages was that some plugins provide support for the same codec but using different libraries. So for example if users want to use rav1e for AV1 encoding, they should not need to install the aomenc plugin. Or maybe I'm thinking too technical and people don't really care about what is installed... I'm considering changing the packages that were provided as builtin codecs in the past as "Depends" to libheif1. This will affect the packages currently marked as "Recommends". Would that be acceptable? Please note that together with the actual libheif plugin packages, additional packages will be pulled in as dependencies. Cheers, Joachim On 07.07.23 16:29, marillat wrote: On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 09:46:39 +0200 Christian Marillat wrote: Package: libheif1 Version: 1.16.2-1+b1 Severity: serious Dear Maintainer, For people like me with Install-Recommends set to false, no plugins are installed and I spend some time to understand why program like didikam, thunar or imagemagick was unable to display any .heic image files. If you don't want to move back plugins packages to libheif1. Here is and idea. 1) You must improve the long description for plugin packages. I read for libheif-plugin-libde265 "This package contains the libde265 plugin" (same for other packages). What is supposed to do this plugin (and others) ? 2) libheif1 must Depends on plugins that are able to open video and image files so that nothing is broken in others packages (imagemagick, thunar, etc) Christian OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
Control: severity -1 normal On 2023-07-07 10:10:36 +0200, Helmut Grohne wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 09:46:39AM +0200, Christian Marillat wrote: > > Severity: serious > > I believe that this is the wrong severity for this bug and it should be > downgraded. As I am not otherwise involved with this package, I'll leave > that up to maintainer and/or release team. Indeed, downgrading. Cheers -- Sebastian Ramacher
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 09:46:39 +0200 Christian Marillat wrote: > Package: libheif1 > Version: 1.16.2-1+b1 > Severity: serious > > Dear Maintainer, > > For people like me with Install-Recommends set to false, > no plugins are installed and I spend some time to understand why > program like didikam, thunar or imagemagick was unable to display any > .heic image files. If you don't want to move back plugins packages to libheif1. Here is and idea. 1) You must improve the long description for plugin packages. I read for libheif-plugin-libde265 "This package contains the libde265 plugin" (same for other packages). What is supposed to do this plugin (and others) ? 2) libheif1 must Depends on plugins that are able to open video and image files so that nothing is broken in others packages (imagemagick, thunar, etc) Christian
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
On 07 juil. 2023 11:29, Helmut Grohne wrote: > On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 11:10:51AM +0200, Christian Marillat wrote: >> From Debian policy 7.2 : >> >> , >> | "Recommends" >> |This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. >> | >> |The "Recommends" field should list packages that would be found >> |together with this one in all but unusual installations. >> ` >> >> For now libheif1 without the right plugin is unusable. > > That depends on on how you want to use libheif1. For instance, I use > geeqie. It happens to link libheif1. If I were to remove the files of > libheif1, geeqie would miss a library and fail to start. Given the > presence of libheif1, I can run geeqie. Using geeqie works given that I > don't interact with the relevant file format. Quite obviously, > "unusable" does not accurately describe it. Another broken package, geeqie doesn't work : , | $ geeqie 20230707_091502.heic | warning: heif reader error: Unsupported feature: Unsupported codec ` Christian
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 11:10:51AM +0200, Christian Marillat wrote: > From Debian policy 7.2 : > > , > | "Recommends" > |This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. > | > |The "Recommends" field should list packages that would be found > |together with this one in all but unusual installations. > ` > > For now libheif1 without the right plugin is unusable. That depends on on how you want to use libheif1. For instance, I use geeqie. It happens to link libheif1. If I were to remove the files of libheif1, geeqie would miss a library and fail to start. Given the presence of libheif1, I can run geeqie. Using geeqie works given that I don't interact with the relevant file format. Quite obviously, "unusable" does not accurately describe it. > I see nothing in teh Debian policy sating that we need to minimize > dependecies. Not everything we do is encoded into policy. Often times, policy is updated to reflect current practice. > > Would you rather consider enabling the installation of recommended > > packages? > > A joke ? Not at all. In disabling recommendations, you characterize your installation as unusual (according to policy). Having to install extra packages in such an unusual installation seems like a reasonable trade-off to me. Usually, libheif1 will install the necessary plugins via recommendations, so usually things work as expected. In any case, it is quite obvious that we disagree here. Since this is space vs convenience trade-off, we won't advance the matter through arguments. To arrive at a reasonable conclusion, we likely need further input from others (e.g. debian-de...@lists.debian.org). Helmut
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
On 07 juil. 2023 10:10, Helmut Grohne wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 09:46:39AM +0200, Christian Marillat wrote: >> Severity: serious > > I believe that this is the wrong severity for this bug and it should be > downgraded. As I am not otherwise involved with this package, I'll leave > that up to maintainer and/or release team. >From Debian policy 7.2 : , | "Recommends" |This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. | |The "Recommends" field should list packages that would be found |together with this one in all but unusual installations. ` For now libheif1 without the right plugin is unusable. >> For people like me with Install-Recommends set to false, >> no plugins are installed and I spend some time to understand why >> program like didikam, thunar or imagemagick was unable to display any >> .heic image files. > > I think this is working as intended. As a shared library, libheif1 tends > to be pulled into lots of dependency trees. For instance navit > transitively depends on it without there being a need for heif plugins. > You can also use gimp in lots of ways in the absence of heif plugins. We > typically cannot turn the dependency of this (often unused) shared > library into a recommendation, but we can minimize the impact of that > dependency by moving the plugins to a different package. That's what is > being done here. I see nothing in teh Debian policy sating that we need to minimize dependecies. >> Total size for all plugins is really small 384K >> >> The library itself is 648K >> >> Please remove these plugins packages and restore as it was before in 1.15.1-1 > > Would you rather consider enabling the installation of recommended > packages? A joke ? Christian
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
Hi, On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 09:46:39AM +0200, Christian Marillat wrote: > Severity: serious I believe that this is the wrong severity for this bug and it should be downgraded. As I am not otherwise involved with this package, I'll leave that up to maintainer and/or release team. > For people like me with Install-Recommends set to false, > no plugins are installed and I spend some time to understand why > program like didikam, thunar or imagemagick was unable to display any > .heic image files. I think this is working as intended. As a shared library, libheif1 tends to be pulled into lots of dependency trees. For instance navit transitively depends on it without there being a need for heif plugins. You can also use gimp in lots of ways in the absence of heif plugins. We typically cannot turn the dependency of this (often unused) shared library into a recommendation, but we can minimize the impact of that dependency by moving the plugins to a different package. That's what is being done here. > Total size for all plugins is really small 384K > > The library itself is 648K > > Please remove these plugins packages and restore as it was before in 1.15.1-1 Would you rather consider enabling the installation of recommended packages? If you disagree here, I recommend taking this to debian-de...@lists.debian.org as this has wider implications on more library packages. It is the question of what you expect when you depend on a particular shared library. To me it seems that we expect that you can load the library an receive errors when things are not working (rather than crash), but not more. In contrast, you expect it work fully work. I'm not sure we have wide consensus for either of these. Helmut
Bug#1040520: libheif1: Please don't split plugins in separate packages
Package: libheif1 Version: 1.16.2-1+b1 Severity: serious Dear Maintainer, For people like me with Install-Recommends set to false, no plugins are installed and I spend some time to understand why program like didikam, thunar or imagemagick was unable to display any .heic image files. Total size for all plugins is really small 384K The library itself is 648K Please remove these plugins packages and restore as it was before in 1.15.1-1 Christian -- System Information: Debian Release: trixie/sid APT prefers buildd-unstable APT policy: (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: i386 Kernel: Linux 6.4.2-1-custom (SMP w/24 CPU threads; PREEMPT) Kernel taint flags: TAINT_PROPRIETARY_MODULE, TAINT_OOT_MODULE Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) Versions of packages libheif1 depends on: ii libc6 2.37-4 ii libgcc-s1 13.1.0-7 ii libstdc++6 13.1.0-7 ii zlib1g 1:1.2.13.dfsg-1 Versions of packages libheif1 recommends: pn libheif-plugin-aomdec pn libheif-plugin-aomenc ii libheif-plugin-dav1d 1.16.2-1+b1 ii libheif-plugin-libde265 1.16.2-1+b1 pn libheif-plugin-x265 Versions of packages libheif1 suggests: pn libheif-plugin-rav1e pn libheif-plugin-svtenc -- no debconf information
