Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello, this is for the bug log only, as we seem to have a communication problem and I don't want to heat it up nor cause more shouting, just clarify some statements. On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 09:58:10AM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 07:48, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:20:35PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59, Sandro Tosi wrote: > >> > else we can't do anything but close this report. > >> > >> Doing it now. There was no action on this bug since more that 2 years, > >> we can't solve it by ourselves and we are not able to push it forward > >> "upstream". Please reopen when (and only if) you got a positive reply > >> from Alioth maint on a way to let us report bugs to them. > > > > Sigh. > > > > Currently I cannot (in the technical sense) contact them: see alioth > > bug 313213. And from reading the bug log of reportbug i'm not alone in > > wishing to have the feature. > > Once again, there's NOTHING technical to do for this bug (for your > side): you just need to coordinate the effort with alioth team. You > don't wanna do it? that's ok, don't expect us to do that then. Stop > spreading FUD over it. a) I'm perfectly fine that you don't want to do something (this bug is already "wontfixed") [2] b) I cannot do something about it atm (see above), c) I'm not spreading Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. Please be specific if you issue something like this. > > This is already "wishlist" and "wontfix", so why are you so eager to > > close ist, even though it is clearly valid and wanted? (closing == > > hiding form users). [1] > > *eager*? I waited TWO years for you to do anything about it, and you > fail at it. So if in TWO years (oh even more since you opened this > bug) you weren't able to do any single step forward, than it's your > problem, for sure not ours. a) Ok, "eager" is not the right word. I'm not a native speaker. Maybe "interested" is better. b) I never claimed that you had a problem. I filed a wishlist bug, yes, in 2004. So of course it was/is "my" problem with the software named "reportbug". c) There are problems where something can be done, some others were a resolution takes some time. Have a look at e.g. #49149, which was opened in 1999, and was just recently resolved. It was "wontfix" for quite some time as well. > > I'm in no way implying this is (easy) to fix, so I'm perfectly fine > > with "wishlist" and "wontfix". > > You want it fixed? Do something about it! else, this bug will remain > closed until YOU find someone that will commit to work on it. As Debian maintainer and user since quite some time (guess around 2002 I started) I always loved the "not hide problems" mantra [3]. Even if the parties involved do not agree, everybody can read about it and form his/her own opinion. So far I haven't understood this as " ... only if some party agrees to work on it", and I'm rather disappointed that this interpretation is possible. > > [1] I used to maintain a package where I was unable to reproduce the > > bug (missing hardware) and the submitter no longer had the > > hardware. Well, I tagged it "unreproducible" but did not close > > it. It was not nice (everybody likes small bug counts, I guess), > > but it was honest - the bug probably was still there (upstream was > > pretty dead and I wanted to debug it). > > you are in NO position to try and teach me how to handle bugs. I'm not teaching you anything. I'm explaining how *I* handled that specific bug. And finally it would be great if everybody involved could discuss the issue at hand, using the appropriate Debian guidelines and procedures and not assuming someone to be "superior" and "inferior"; "teacher" and "student". This just causes anger (at least on my side) and does not help resolving the issue at hand, i.e. be productive. Greetings Helge P.S. Even though I'm quite disappointed please note that I'm not reopening this bug atm. [2] According to http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer This bug won't be fixed. Possibly because this is a choice between two arbitrary ways of doing things and the maintainer and submitter prefer different ways of doing things, possibly because changing the behaviour will cause other, worse, problems for others, or possibly for other reasons. [3] http://www.debian.org/social_contract.en.html No. 3 -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 07:48, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Hello Sandro, > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:20:35PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> > else we can't do anything but close this report. >> >> Doing it now. There was no action on this bug since more that 2 years, >> we can't solve it by ourselves and we are not able to push it forward >> "upstream". Please reopen when (and only if) you got a positive reply >> from Alioth maint on a way to let us report bugs to them. > > Sigh. > > Currently I cannot (in the technical sense) contact them: see alioth > bug 313213. And from reading the bug log of reportbug i'm not alone in > wishing to have the feature. Once again, there's NOTHING technical to do for this bug (for your side): you just need to coordinate the effort with alioth team. You don't wanna do it? that's ok, don't expect us to do that then. Stop spreading FUD over it. > This is already "wishlist" and "wontfix", so why are you so eager to > close ist, even though it is clearly valid and wanted? (closing == > hiding form users). [1] *eager*? I waited TWO years for you to do anything about it, and you fail at it. So if in TWO years (oh even more since you opened this bug) you weren't able to do any single step forward, than it's your problem, for sure not ours. > I'm in no way implying this is (easy) to fix, so I'm perfectly fine > with "wishlist" and "wontfix". You want it fixed? Do something about it! else, this bug will remain closed until YOU find someone that will commit to work on it. > [1] I used to maintain a package where I was unable to reproduce the > bug (missing hardware) and the submitter no longer had the > hardware. Well, I tagged it "unreproducible" but did not close > it. It was not nice (everybody likes small bug counts, I guess), > but it was honest - the bug probably was still there (upstream was > pretty dead and I wanted to debug it). you are in NO position to try and teach me how to handle bugs. I will NOT reply any further if there won't be anything interesting to resolve this bug in future emails. Goodbye, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello Sandro, On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 08:41:32AM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 13:20, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59:13PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:49, Helge Kreutzmann > >> wrote: > >> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:02:52PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > >> what's there taht stops you from contacting Alioth team and ask them > >> what you can do to help achieve your goal? > > > > Well, if that helps you I can sure search for an e-mail adress on > > alioth and request them to contact you/this bug. > > > >> >> I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team > >> >> doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still > >> >> interested in this feature. > >> > > >> > I'm still interested though possible not the right contact person. So > >> > >> could you please explain why? there's no need to be a tech guy to ask > >> if some sort of coordination/development can be done on alioth side. > > > > I can for sure send an e-mail as stated above. > > We are running low on maintainer resources, so we cannot follow up > this request with alioth team. Ok. > My request is to contact alioth admin, explain what you need, try to > convince them it's an interesting feature and only in case of > clarification/synchronization let them contact us. > > You should lead this request with alioth team, with us only as > fallback for specific integration technical stuff. Well, when I filed this bug this probably would have been possible for me. But frankly speaking I'm currently reducing my Debian time for various reasons (and I'm just going through "my" bugs to see if anything can be finished). So I'm probably unable to provide much more than stipulate the first contact. > >> > I guess the bug has to stay at the current state for the moment. Maybe > >> > someone with contact to the Alioth team will see it and can provide > >> > the necessary contact to couple alioth to reportbug. > >> > >> I don't like to keep bugs opened because "maybe someone will come up > >> and solve it", in particular for bugs we can't do anything to solve > >> only by ourselves and when the submitter seems not willing to push > >> further on alioth. (the reason the bug was not already closed or bein > >> pinged is that it didn't fell under my radar). > > > > Well, this bug is a wishlist, a feature request. There is nothing > > broken. So while I understand your sentiment, I don't agree with > > closing it. Debian is not hiding things. Unfortunately there is no tag > > in the BTS for "cantfix". As stated initially, this bug is probably > > long term. > > tagged wontfix, the tag that better fit what's the status of this bug. Yes, I agree, given the current circumstances. > Let us know of any important advance on this request. Which probably won't happen for quit some time, but if they do, I'll definitly inform you. Thanks anyhow, Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
tags 241027 wontfix thanks On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 13:20, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Hello Sandro, > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59:13PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:49, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: >> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:02:52PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann >> >> wrote: >> >> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: >> >> >> Package: reportbug >> >> >> Severity: wishlist >> >> >> >> >> >> Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS >> >> >> http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 >> >> >> >> >> >> it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to >> >> >> alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. >> >> >> >> >> >> I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be >> >> >> really great! >> >> > >> >> > Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? >> >> >> >> You have to involve the Alioth team to provide us a way to report bug >> >> to them (the best would be a mailbox where we can send report for >> >> alioth issues). >> > >> > I'm sorry, I've no (explict) contact to the Alioth team as well. >> > That's basically the reason I would like this feature. I hoped that >> > you had the contacts necessary (as "bug" experts) >> >> we are no "bug expert" (that could be the owner of bugs.debian.org), >> we are simply the maintainer of reportbug. > > Sorry, that was not meant as an offence. I (obviously wrongly) assumed > that by beiing the maintainer of reportbug you had collected some > knowledge about the upstream issues (here beiing bug handling). No offence :) I just only meant that we are users of BTS (ok, "particular" users) with no special privileges or so. >> > to work out the technical details. >> >> what's there taht stops you from contacting Alioth team and ask them >> what you can do to help achieve your goal? > > Well, if that helps you I can sure search for an e-mail adress on > alioth and request them to contact you/this bug. > >> >> I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team >> >> doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still >> >> interested in this feature. >> > >> > I'm still interested though possible not the right contact person. So >> >> could you please explain why? there's no need to be a tech guy to ask >> if some sort of coordination/development can be done on alioth side. > > I can for sure send an e-mail as stated above. We are running low on maintainer resources, so we cannot follow up this request with alioth team. My request is to contact alioth admin, explain what you need, try to convince them it's an interesting feature and only in case of clarification/synchronization let them contact us. You should lead this request with alioth team, with us only as fallback for specific integration technical stuff. > >> > I guess the bug has to stay at the current state for the moment. Maybe >> > someone with contact to the Alioth team will see it and can provide >> > the necessary contact to couple alioth to reportbug. >> >> I don't like to keep bugs opened because "maybe someone will come up >> and solve it", in particular for bugs we can't do anything to solve >> only by ourselves and when the submitter seems not willing to push >> further on alioth. (the reason the bug was not already closed or bein >> pinged is that it didn't fell under my radar). > > Well, this bug is a wishlist, a feature request. There is nothing > broken. So while I understand your sentiment, I don't agree with > closing it. Debian is not hiding things. Unfortunately there is no tag > in the BTS for "cantfix". As stated initially, this bug is probably > long term. tagged wontfix, the tag that better fit what's the status of this bug. >> > Thanks for your answer anyhow. >> >> Please contact Alioth team, or find someone willing to push it thru, >> else we can't do anything but close this report. > > As stated above, I'll see what I can do but meanwhile I would object > closing the bugs. Let us know of any important advance on this request. Regards, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello Sandro, On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:02:52PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > Hello, > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > >> Package: reportbug > >> Severity: wishlist > >> > >> Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS > >> http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 > >> > >> it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to > >> alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. > >> > >> I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be > >> really great! > > > > Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? > > You have to involve the Alioth team to provide us a way to report bug > to them (the best would be a mailbox where we can send report for > alioth issues). I'm sorry, I've no (explict) contact to the Alioth team as well. That's basically the reason I would like this feature. I hoped that you had the contacts necessary (as "bug" experts) to work out the technical details. > I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team > doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still > interested in this feature. I'm still interested though possible not the right contact person. So I guess the bug has to stay at the current state for the moment. Maybe someone with contact to the Alioth team will see it and can provide the necessary contact to couple alioth to reportbug. Thanks for your answer anyhow. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello Helge, thanks for revive it. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Hello, > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: >> Package: reportbug >> Severity: wishlist >> >> Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS >> http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 >> >> it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to >> alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. >> >> I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be >> really great! > > Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? You have to involve the Alioth team to provide us a way to report bug to them (the best would be a mailbox where we can send report for alioth issues). I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still interested in this feature. Cjeers. -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello Helge, On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:49, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Hello Sandro, > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:02:52PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: >> > Hello, >> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: >> >> Package: reportbug >> >> Severity: wishlist >> >> >> >> Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS >> >> http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 >> >> >> >> it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to >> >> alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. >> >> >> >> I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be >> >> really great! >> > >> > Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? >> >> You have to involve the Alioth team to provide us a way to report bug >> to them (the best would be a mailbox where we can send report for >> alioth issues). > > I'm sorry, I've no (explict) contact to the Alioth team as well. > That's basically the reason I would like this feature. I hoped that > you had the contacts necessary (as "bug" experts) we are no "bug expert" (that could be the owner of bugs.debian.org), we are simply the maintainer of reportbug. > to work out the technical details. what's there taht stops you from contacting Alioth team and ask them what you can do to help achieve your goal? >> I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team >> doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still >> interested in this feature. > > I'm still interested though possible not the right contact person. So could you please explain why? there's no need to be a tech guy to ask if some sort of coordination/development can be done on alioth side. > I guess the bug has to stay at the current state for the moment. Maybe > someone with contact to the Alioth team will see it and can provide > the necessary contact to couple alioth to reportbug. I don't like to keep bugs opened because "maybe someone will come up and solve it", in particular for bugs we can't do anything to solve only by ourselves and when the submitter seems not willing to push further on alioth. (the reason the bug was not already closed or bein pinged is that it didn't fell under my radar). > Thanks for your answer anyhow. Please contact Alioth team, or find someone willing to push it thru, else we can't do anything but close this report. Regards, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello Sandro, On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:59:13PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:49, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:02:52PM +0200, Sandro Tosi wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 15:46, Helge Kreutzmann > >> wrote: > >> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > >> >> Package: reportbug > >> >> Severity: wishlist > >> >> > >> >> Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS > >> >> http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 > >> >> > >> >> it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to > >> >> alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. > >> >> > >> >> I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be > >> >> really great! > >> > > >> > Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? > >> > >> You have to involve the Alioth team to provide us a way to report bug > >> to them (the best would be a mailbox where we can send report for > >> alioth issues). > > > > I'm sorry, I've no (explict) contact to the Alioth team as well. > > That's basically the reason I would like this feature. I hoped that > > you had the contacts necessary (as "bug" experts) > > we are no "bug expert" (that could be the owner of bugs.debian.org), > we are simply the maintainer of reportbug. Sorry, that was not meant as an offence. I (obviously wrongly) assumed that by beiing the maintainer of reportbug you had collected some knowledge about the upstream issues (here beiing bug handling). > > to work out the technical details. > > what's there taht stops you from contacting Alioth team and ask them > what you can do to help achieve your goal? Well, if that helps you I can sure search for an e-mail adress on alioth and request them to contact you/this bug. > >> I'm sorry, but we cannot be the facilitators for this, if Alioth team > >> doesn't support, so you should be the gateway if you're still > >> interested in this feature. > > > > I'm still interested though possible not the right contact person. So > > could you please explain why? there's no need to be a tech guy to ask > if some sort of coordination/development can be done on alioth side. I can for sure send an e-mail as stated above. > > I guess the bug has to stay at the current state for the moment. Maybe > > someone with contact to the Alioth team will see it and can provide > > the necessary contact to couple alioth to reportbug. > > I don't like to keep bugs opened because "maybe someone will come up > and solve it", in particular for bugs we can't do anything to solve > only by ourselves and when the submitter seems not willing to push > further on alioth. (the reason the bug was not already closed or bein > pinged is that it didn't fell under my radar). Well, this bug is a wishlist, a feature request. There is nothing broken. So while I understand your sentiment, I don't agree with closing it. Debian is not hiding things. Unfortunately there is no tag in the BTS for "cantfix". As stated initially, this bug is probably long term. > > Thanks for your answer anyhow. > > Please contact Alioth team, or find someone willing to push it thru, > else we can't do anything but close this report. As stated above, I'll see what I can do but meanwhile I would object closing the bugs. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#241027: Please support reporting bugs to alioth.debian.org
Hello, On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 02:13:06PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Package: reportbug > Severity: wishlist > > Since the alioth people refuse to support the "ordinary" BTS > http://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=300014&group_id=1&atid=21 > > it would be great if reportbug could find a way to interface to > alioth, so bugs can be reported in a unified interface. > > I know this is probably a long term wishlist, but having this would be > really great! Did you have some time to consider if this is feasible? Thanks & Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
