Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes: After reading the thread, I propose the following reduced version of this patch. It omits some of the more specific instructions (as discussed), which can be covered in the devref, and it also avoids the assumption that the original man page is in English. By and large, it will be, but I think we have some software specific to localization or language support where the original documentation may be in a language other than English. Translations into English would need to meet the same guidelines. How does this look to everyone? The following wording has received one second and needs an additional second to be committed to the next revision of Policy. Is everyone happy with it? --- a/policy.sgml +++ b/policy.sgml @@ -8885,6 +8885,15 @@ name [varsyshostname/var]: characters outside that range may be found in manref name=groff_char section=7. /p + + p + If a localized version of a manual page is provided, it should + either be up-to-date or it should be obvious to the reader that + it is outdated and the original manual page should be used + instead. This can be done either by a note at the beginning of + the manual page or by showing the missing or changed portions in + the original language instead of the target language. + /p /sect sect -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 13:37:39 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: The following wording has received one second and needs an additional second to be committed to the next revision of Policy. Is everyone happy with it? --- a/policy.sgml +++ b/policy.sgml @@ -8885,6 +8885,15 @@ name [varsyshostname/var]: characters outside that range may be found in manref name=groff_char section=7. /p + + p + If a localized version of a manual page is provided, it should + either be up-to-date or it should be obvious to the reader that + it is outdated and the original manual page should be used + instead. This can be done either by a note at the beginning of + the manual page or by showing the missing or changed portions in + the original language instead of the target language. + /p /sect sect Seconded. Cheers, Julien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.org writes: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 13:37:39 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: The following wording has received one second and needs an additional second to be committed to the next revision of Policy. Is everyone happy with it? Seconded. Thanks, committed for the next release of Policy. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Currently it is not possible to (reliably) decide, whether an translated man page is up to date or not. In fact quite a few translations are outdated (missing newer parameters and other information) or not a translation at all but a rewrite for a previous version. While this is an upstream issue, debian maintainers should be aware of this problem and activly talk to their upstream to resolve this problem. Thus I suggest the following patch for debian policy: countries.[4] +If a loclized man page for a certain command is provided, it should +either be up to date or it should be clearly visible that this version +is outdated (either by a note in the beginning or by showing the +missing/changed parts in English instead of the target language). +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this Debian developers and maintainers are asked to +take this issue to their upstream to resolve. + +If Debian developers themselves provide a framework to support +localized man pages this framework must fulfill the requirements of +the previous paragraphs. In this case it is recommended to use po4a +for localization. + Due to limitations in current implementations, all characters in the After reading the thread, I propose the following reduced version of this patch. It omits some of the more specific instructions (as discussed), which can be covered in the devref, and it also avoids the assumption that the original man page is in English. By and large, it will be, but I think we have some software specific to localization or language support where the original documentation may be in a language other than English. Translations into English would need to meet the same guidelines. How does this look to everyone? --- a/policy.sgml +++ b/policy.sgml @@ -8885,6 +8885,15 @@ name [varsyshostname/var]: characters outside that range may be found in manref name=groff_char section=7. /p + + p + If a localized version of a manual page is provided, it should + either be up-to-date or it should be obvious to the reader that + it is outdated and the original manual page should be used + instead. This can be done either by a note at the beginning of + the manual page or by showing the missing or changed portions in + the original language instead of the target language. + /p /sect sect -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Hello Russ, On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:19:50PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: After reading the thread, I propose the following reduced version of this patch. It omits some of the more specific instructions (as discussed), which can be covered in the devref, and it also avoids the assumption that the original man page is in English. By and large, it will be, but I think we have some software specific to localization or language support where the original documentation may be in a language other than English. Translations into English would need to meet the same guidelines. How does this look to everyone? --- a/policy.sgml +++ b/policy.sgml @@ -8885,6 +8885,15 @@ name [varsyshostname/var]: characters outside that range may be found in manref name=groff_char section=7. /p + + p + If a localized version of a manual page is provided, it should + either be up-to-date or it should be obvious to the reader that + it is outdated and the original manual page should be used + instead. This can be done either by a note at the beginning of + the manual page or by showing the missing or changed portions in + the original language instead of the target language. + /p /sect sect -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ I support this version and would be happy to support it (and of course than to see it applied as well). Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes: This is a new rule being introduced as a SHOULD level, meaning that any packages that are shipping out-of-date alternate language man pages are instantly buggy. Are we happy with that? Personally, I think all such packages are already buggy, regardless of whether Policy explicitly says so. So I'm happy with that. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
clone 493007 reassign -1 developers-reference retitle -1 suggest to use po4a for man page translations block -1 by 493007 thanks Hello Christian, On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 07:37:15AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: Quoting Helge Kreutzmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): +If a loclized man page for a certain command is provided, it should s/loclized/localized Yes, of course. +either be up to date or it should be clearly visible that this version +is outdated (either by a note in the beginning or by showing the +missing/changed parts in English instead of the target language). +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this Debian developers and maintainers are asked to +take this issue to their upstream to resolve. I'm not sure that the policy talks about Debian developers. It probably talks about package maintainers or so This sounds better, so: +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this package maintainers are asked to take this issue +to their upstream to resolve. I would also recommend turning the should to must for native packages. It probably needs the following to be included in the Developer's Reference: I am not sure, do you mean the first should: it should be clearly visible - it must be clearly visible? Could you suggest a sentence, so I can grab the idea? + +If Debian developers themselves provide a framework to support +localized man pages this framework must fulfill the requirements of +the previous paragraphs. In this case it is recommended to use po4a +for localization. + That latter part probably belongs more to the Developer's Reference. Indeed, a section about po4a and a simple way to setup a framework for localized manpages would be a great addition to it. Fine with me, thus cloned and reassigned. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 07:37:15AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: Quoting Helge Kreutzmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): +If a loclized man page for a certain command is provided, it should s/loclized/localized +either be up to date or it should be clearly visible that this version +is outdated (either by a note in the beginning or by showing the +missing/changed parts in English instead of the target language). +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this Debian developers and maintainers are asked to +take this issue to their upstream to resolve. I'm not sure that the policy talks about Debian developers. It probably talks about package maintainers or so I would also recommend turning the should to must for native packages. It probably needs the following to be included in the Developer's Reference: + +If Debian developers themselves provide a framework to support +localized man pages this framework must fulfill the requirements of +the previous paragraphs. In this case it is recommended to use po4a +for localization. + That latter part probably belongs more to the Developer's Reference. Indeed, a section about po4a and a simple way to setup a framework for localized manpages would be a great addition to it. Frankly, I do not like po4a for manpages. I think we should provide a simpler solution that provide the warranty above. Cheers, -- Bill. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Imagine a large red swirl here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Quoting Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): That latter part probably belongs more to the Developer's Reference. Indeed, a section about po4a and a simple way to setup a framework for localized manpages would be a great addition to it. Frankly, I do not like po4a for manpages. I think we should provide a simpler solution that provide the warranty above. Sorry, but I don't buy that one argument. We also have a few DD who dislike debhelper and packaging helpers and, still, our DevRef recommends their use. So, well, as some of our major native packages are using po4a for their manpages l10n framework, it well worth having the DevRef recommending its use. which do not prevent anyone not liking it to: - write something else - promote its use - write recommendations in the DevRef about it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Quoting Helge Kreutzmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): +If a loclized man page for a certain command is provided, it should s/loclized/localized +either be up to date or it should be clearly visible that this version +is outdated (either by a note in the beginning or by showing the +missing/changed parts in English instead of the target language). +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this Debian developers and maintainers are asked to +take this issue to their upstream to resolve. I'm not sure that the policy talks about Debian developers. It probably talks about package maintainers or so I would also recommend turning the should to must for native packages. It probably needs the following to be included in the Developer's Reference: + +If Debian developers themselves provide a framework to support +localized man pages this framework must fulfill the requirements of +the previous paragraphs. In this case it is recommended to use po4a +for localization. + That latter part probably belongs more to the Developer's Reference. Indeed, a section about po4a and a simple way to setup a framework for localized manpages would be a great addition to it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#493007: debian-policy: Please recommend tracking translation status of l10n man pages
Package: debian-policy Version: 3.8.0.1 Severity: wishlist Tags: patch l10n X-Debbugs-CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently it is not possible to (reliably) decide, whether an translated man page is up to date or not. In fact quite a few translations are outdated (missing newer parameters and other information) or not a translation at all but a rewrite for a previous version. While this is an upstream issue, debian maintainers should be aware of this problem and activly talk to their upstream to resolve this problem. Thus I suggest the following patch for debian policy: countries.[4] +If a loclized man page for a certain command is provided, it should +either be up to date or it should be clearly visible that this version +is outdated (either by a note in the beginning or by showing the +missing/changed parts in English instead of the target language). +Where the build system of the localized man page does not provide the +option to enable this Debian developers and maintainers are asked to +take this issue to their upstream to resolve. + +If Debian developers themselves provide a framework to support +localized man pages this framework must fulfill the requirements of +the previous paragraphs. In this case it is recommended to use po4a +for localization. + Due to limitations in current implementations, all characters in the -- System Information: Debian Release: lenny/sid Architecture: powerpc (ppc) Kernel: Linux 2.6.22-3-powerpc Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash debian-policy depends on no packages. debian-policy recommends no packages. Versions of packages debian-policy suggests: ii doc-base 0.8.16 utilities to manage online documen -- no debconf information -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
