Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
Josselin Mouette writes (Re: duplicates in the archive): Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 à 17:38 +0900, Miles Bader a écrit : What's wrong with Recommends: in that case? It seems to perfectly match the makes life easier for common but not universal use-case XXX scenario you describe. Recommends is wrong for metapackages because it gets upgrades very wrong. This is why it is used very marginally. Could you please explain this in more detail in the specific case of gnome-core and network-manager ? I'm not sure I understand the problem. Thanks, Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
Ian Jackson writes (Re: duplicates in the archive): Josselin Mouette writes (Re: duplicates in the archive): Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 à 17:38 +0900, Miles Bader a écrit : What's wrong with Recommends: in that case? It seems to perfectly match the makes life easier for common but not universal use-case XXX scenario you describe. Recommends is wrong for metapackages because it gets upgrades very wrong. This is why it is used very marginally. Could you please explain this in more detail in the specific case of gnome-core and network-manager ? I'm not sure I understand the problem. In particular I've just read the message from Adam Borowski replying to you, which I will bounce to the TC list. Is Adam wrong ? Thanks, Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
Félix Arreola Rodríguez fgatuno@gmail.com writes: But, ignoring the a desktop works fine without n-m thing, n-m makes more, much more easy connecting to wifi networks, espeacially for laptops. I suggest make Laptop task depend on n-m, in this way, n-m don't get installed on desktop systems, just on laptop systems. What's wrong with Recommends: in that case? It seems to perfectly match the makes life easier for common but not universal use-case XXX scenario you describe. A hard package-dependency in a case like this, when there isn't actually any hard functional dependency, and there are issues with the depended-upon package, are decidedly user-unfriendly. [Yeah, the various desktops tend to abuse hard-dependencies in a lot of other ways, but ... in most cases this just results in bloat. NM is a bit worse than that.] -Miles -- Brain, n. An apparatus with which we think we think. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 à 17:38 +0900, Miles Bader a écrit : What's wrong with Recommends: in that case? It seems to perfectly match the makes life easier for common but not universal use-case XXX scenario you describe. Recommends is wrong for metapackages because it gets upgrades very wrong. This is why it is used very marginally. A hard package-dependency in a case like this, when there isn't actually any hard functional dependency, and there are issues with the depended-upon package, are decidedly user-unfriendly. It is unfriendly to the extreme minority of users who want a specific selection of packages rather than the default metapackages. Accidentally these are the users who also have the ability to make their own package selection. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
Adam Borowski writes (Re: duplicates in the archive): Breaks unrelated software on the system is a RC severity, and there's no way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking. Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix. It will cause n-m to be installed unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be. I definitely think this should be fixed for wheezy. Adam earlier wrote on -devel: I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are no regressions at all. The only differences are: * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh) The dependency comes via gnome-core depending on network-manager-gnome. To the Gnome maintainers: given that Adam has done this test, to check that things are OK without n-m, would you be willing to make this change to the gnome-core metapackage ? Thanks, Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
On 09.07.2012 20:46, Ian Jackson wrote: To the Gnome maintainers: given that Adam has done this test, to check that things are OK without n-m, would you be willing to make this change to the gnome-core metapackage ? no, meta packages are not a super market. And fwiw Adam is spreading a lot of FUD wrt to NM so I'm not particularly interested in his opinion or whatever tests he apparently did, sorry. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#542095: duplicates in the archive
El lun, 09-07-2012 a las 19:46 +0100, Ian Jackson escribió: Adam Borowski writes (Re: duplicates in the archive): Breaks unrelated software on the system is a RC severity, and there's no way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking. Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix. It will cause n-m to be installed unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be. I definitely think this should be fixed for wheezy. Adam earlier wrote on -devel: I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are no regressions at all. The only differences are: * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh) The dependency comes via gnome-core depending on network-manager-gnome. To the Gnome maintainers: given that Adam has done this test, to check that things are OK without n-m, would you be willing to make this change to the gnome-core metapackage ? Thanks, Ian. A system without network-manager is still usable even for desktop users. I mean, for example, when Pidgin opens, and n-m is not available, it just tries to connect directly to internet. When pidgin opens, and n-m is active pidgin waits to connect until n-m gets connected. Sometimes is annoying because other network interfaces may be active with full internet and pidgin waits until n-m reports ready. A similiar experience happens with Evolution. But, ignoring the a desktop works fine without n-m thing, n-m makes more, much more easy connecting to wifi networks, espeacially for laptops. I suggest make Laptop task depend on n-m, in this way, n-m don't get installed on desktop systems, just on laptop systems. -- Atte. Félix Arreola Rodríguez, Firmado con GPG, llave 1E249EE4 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
