Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
Apparently the Debian maintainers feel that your inconvenience is a small price to pay to protect the functionally retarded from themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
I'm very disappointed that dist-upgrade broke my screensaver by deleting the bsod hack (it's the only one I use). Sure, it's fairly easy to fix by installing the xscreensaver-screensaver-bsod package, but it seems like pointless package proliferation to me. -andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
I'm already separating webcollage and bsod, don't worry. This will be uploaded probably this night. I already talked about this with Daniel. -Original Message- From: Tormod Volden Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:15:50 To: Daniel Dickinson; <553...@bugs.debian.org> Subject: Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is > supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of > every screen of the package. That would defeat the point of using > packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo > system. If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that > the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I > haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian. > > Debian isn't just for developers. The -extra package is not included by any installer, so "normal users" will not get the BSOD screensaver. They have to actively hunt it down and install it. If they get so far, there are much worse examples of what they can install that can be potentially dangerous if used the wrong way. With reference to "prepackaged distribution" I do not think we have to dumb down all packages available in the Debian repository. This is one of the reasons we have a separate -extra package. Your suggestion is "should not be enabled by default" and that is exactly what we are doing by putting BSOD into -extra. I think the huge majority of Debian users (developers or not) find BSOD very entertaining, and they would be upset if we remove it or make it difficult to use. And frankly, I do not think many people panic and hit the power button without even move the mouse or press a key (which would stop the screensaver). Tormod
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is > supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of > every screen of the package. That would defeat the point of using > packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo > system. If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that > the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I > haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian. > > Debian isn't just for developers. The -extra package is not included by any installer, so "normal users" will not get the BSOD screensaver. They have to actively hunt it down and install it. If they get so far, there are much worse examples of what they can install that can be potentially dangerous if used the wrong way. With reference to "prepackaged distribution" I do not think we have to dumb down all packages available in the Debian repository. This is one of the reasons we have a separate -extra package. Your suggestion is "should not be enabled by default" and that is exactly what we are doing by putting BSOD into -extra. I think the huge majority of Debian users (developers or not) find BSOD very entertaining, and they would be upset if we remove it or make it difficult to use. And frankly, I do not think many people panic and hit the power button without even move the mouse or press a key (which would stop the screensaver). Tormod -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:28:21 -0430 Jose Luis Rivas wrote: > > Plus, is the intended behavior, the package was made on that sense, > that's what the screensaver is supposed to do. So it's not a bug but a > feature! Just because I think the issue of what consistutes intended behaviours is an issue: The intended behaviour of xscreensaver-data-extra is to provide additional screensaver hacks for *user* enjoyment. The goal of the hack is to amuse the *user*, and as such BSOD is makes the package buggy because it frequently causes the user to experience anguish instead of enjoyment. Sure it's amusing if you are expecting it, but when a user who doesn't know that there is a screen hack that pretends to be completely broken computer takes a break from something important, comes back, and sees a crash, they're not *enjoying* the experience. Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of every screen of the package. That would defeat the point of using packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo system. If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian. Debian isn't just for developers. Regards, Daniel -- And that's my crabbing done for the day. Got it out of the way early, now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or strangle cute bunnies or something. -- Michael Devore GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C http://gnupg.org The C Shore (Daniel Dickinson's Website) http://cshore.is-a-geek.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
reassign 553529 xscreensaver-data-extra quit On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 04:05:10 + > "Jose Luis Rivas" wrote: > >> Severity 553529 wishlist >> Quit >> >> Haha. This is a problem between the chair and the keyboard, this is >> not a RC bug. ;-) >> > > This isn't funny. I have had users mistakenly reboot because they > didn't know any better. For a *default* screensaver on a system that is > supposed to be used by people who won't know any better, this *is* an > RC bug. I'm bumping the severity, and am quite willing to take this to > the next level. > > If were not a *default* screensaver I wouldn't be worried, but I have > had upset users, and I don't blame them. Even I had a moment of panic > the first time it happened to me. It may be a 'joke' but it's from UI > point of view it's RC. It doesn't matter that the programming is > between the chair and the keyboard rather than the computer. It's a > natural reaction to see the computer die badly, especially given what > happens to Windows computers under such circumstances. It's not a RC, it may be an *important* bug but not a RC. It's *not* installed by default, is on xscreensaver-data-extra which you have to manually install yourself. Again, is not installed by default. It's a RC bug? Let's take some already big bugs that really rendered to data loss but because of user actions: rm -rf /. [0] Even in that case it was not a grave bug but a *wishlist* bug, because it wasn't an issue on the app side but on the user side. It does the package make you lose information? Or your overreaction? Yes, is the second so is not on the package part but on the user and you can't report a bug against an user. Plus, is the intended behavior, the package was made on that sense, that's what the screensaver is supposed to do. So it's not a bug but a feature! About why it may be an "important severity bug" -- If your reasoning is good and users overreaction to expected behavior of the app counts as bugs then it should be important instead of grave. The simple reason is because doesn't renders to data loss for every the users but only to the users that are used to press reset button before moving the mouse or pressing a key. > > And yes, I'm quite willing to take this the CTTE. Well, I already asked for advice on #debian-devel and most of their solutions was to close this bug and tell you to uninstall the package xscreensaver-data-extra. I'm being nice and I'm willing to unmark it by default, I never said I was not going to customize it so your users wouldn't complain, but I'm *not* willing to receive any kind of threats. And really, *is not even a bug!*. [0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/174283 -- Jose Luis Rivas. San Cristóbal, Venezuela. GPG 0xCACAB118 0x7C4DF50D http://joseluisrivas.net/acerca - http://ghostbar.ath.cx/about -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
Severity 553529 wishlist Quit Haha. This is a problem between the chair and the keyboard, this is not a RC bug. ;-) Cheers! -Original Message- From: Daniel Dickinson Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:54:55 To: Debian Bug Tracking System Subject: Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default Package: xscreensaver Version: 5.05-3 Severity: grave Justification: causes non-serious data loss The fake crash screensaver causes users who don't know about it to panic and reboot the system, without necessarily hit other keys first, thereby potentially causing data loss. It's really a bad idea to have something that look like a fatal error and says to reboot, for a user who is not expecting it. -- System Information: Debian Release: 5.0.3 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_CA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Versions of packages xscreensaver depends on: ii libatk1.0-0 1.22.0-1 The ATK accessibility toolkit ii libc6 2.7-18 GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii libcairo2 1.6.4-7 The Cairo 2D vector graphics libra ii libglade2-0 1:2.6.2-1library to load .glade files at ru ii libglib2.0-02.16.6-2 The GLib library of C routines ii libgtk2.0-0 2.12.12-1~lenny1 The GTK+ graphical user interface ii libice6 2:1.0.4-1X11 Inter-Client Exchange library ii libpam0g1.0.1-5+lenny1 Pluggable Authentication Modules l ii libpango1.0-0 1.20.5-5 Layout and rendering of internatio ii libsm6 2:1.0.3-2X11 Session Management library ii libx11-62:1.1.5-2X11 client-side library ii libxext62:1.0.4-1X11 miscellaneous extension librar ii libxinerama12:1.0.3-2X11 Xinerama extension library ii libxml2 2.6.32.dfsg-5+lenny1 GNOME XML library ii libxmu6 2:1.0.4-1X11 miscellaneous utility library ii libxpm4 1:3.5.7-1X11 pixmap library ii libxrandr2 2:1.2.3-1X11 RandR extension library ii libxrender1 1:0.9.4-2X Rendering Extension client libra ii libxt6 1:1.0.5-3X11 toolkit intrinsics library ii libxxf86misc1 1:1.0.1-3X11 XFree86 miscellaneous extensio ii libxxf86vm1 1:1.0.2-1X11 XFree86 video mode extension l ii xscreensaver-data 5.05-3 data files to be shared among scre Versions of packages xscreensaver recommends: ii libjpeg-progs 6b-14 Programs for manipulating JPEG fil ii perl [perl5] 5.10.0-19lenny2 Larry Wall's Practical Extraction ii wamerican [wordlist] 6-2.3 American English dictionary words ii wcanadian-huge [wordli 6-2.3 Canadian English dictionary words ii xli1.17.0+20061110-3 command line tool for viewing imag ii xloadimage 4.1-16.1 Graphics file viewer under X11 Versions of packages xscreensaver suggests: ii elinks [www-browser] 0.11.4-3 advanced text-mode WWW browser ii fortune-mod [fortune] 1:1.99.1-3.1 provides fortune cookies on demand ii iceweasel [www-browser]3.0.6-3 lightweight web browser based on M ii lynx-cur [www-browser] 2.8.7dev9-2.1 Text-mode WWW Browser with NLS sup pn qcam | streamer(no description available) ii w3m [www-browser] 0.5.2-2+b1WWW browsable pager with excellent pn xdaliclock (no description available) pn xfishtank (no description available) pn xscreensaver-gl(no description available) -- no debconf information
Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default
Package: xscreensaver Version: 5.05-3 Severity: grave Justification: causes non-serious data loss The fake crash screensaver causes users who don't know about it to panic and reboot the system, without necessarily hit other keys first, thereby potentially causing data loss. It's really a bad idea to have something that look like a fatal error and says to reboot, for a user who is not expecting it. -- System Information: Debian Release: 5.0.3 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_CA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Versions of packages xscreensaver depends on: ii libatk1.0-0 1.22.0-1 The ATK accessibility toolkit ii libc6 2.7-18 GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii libcairo2 1.6.4-7 The Cairo 2D vector graphics libra ii libglade2-0 1:2.6.2-1library to load .glade files at ru ii libglib2.0-02.16.6-2 The GLib library of C routines ii libgtk2.0-0 2.12.12-1~lenny1 The GTK+ graphical user interface ii libice6 2:1.0.4-1X11 Inter-Client Exchange library ii libpam0g1.0.1-5+lenny1 Pluggable Authentication Modules l ii libpango1.0-0 1.20.5-5 Layout and rendering of internatio ii libsm6 2:1.0.3-2X11 Session Management library ii libx11-62:1.1.5-2X11 client-side library ii libxext62:1.0.4-1X11 miscellaneous extension librar ii libxinerama12:1.0.3-2X11 Xinerama extension library ii libxml2 2.6.32.dfsg-5+lenny1 GNOME XML library ii libxmu6 2:1.0.4-1X11 miscellaneous utility library ii libxpm4 1:3.5.7-1X11 pixmap library ii libxrandr2 2:1.2.3-1X11 RandR extension library ii libxrender1 1:0.9.4-2X Rendering Extension client libra ii libxt6 1:1.0.5-3X11 toolkit intrinsics library ii libxxf86misc1 1:1.0.1-3X11 XFree86 miscellaneous extensio ii libxxf86vm1 1:1.0.2-1X11 XFree86 video mode extension l ii xscreensaver-data 5.05-3 data files to be shared among scre Versions of packages xscreensaver recommends: ii libjpeg-progs 6b-14 Programs for manipulating JPEG fil ii perl [perl5] 5.10.0-19lenny2 Larry Wall's Practical Extraction ii wamerican [wordlist] 6-2.3 American English dictionary words ii wcanadian-huge [wordli 6-2.3 Canadian English dictionary words ii xli1.17.0+20061110-3 command line tool for viewing imag ii xloadimage 4.1-16.1 Graphics file viewer under X11 Versions of packages xscreensaver suggests: ii elinks [www-browser] 0.11.4-3 advanced text-mode WWW browser ii fortune-mod [fortune] 1:1.99.1-3.1 provides fortune cookies on demand ii iceweasel [www-browser]3.0.6-3 lightweight web browser based on M ii lynx-cur [www-browser] 2.8.7dev9-2.1 Text-mode WWW Browser with NLS sup pn qcam | streamer(no description available) ii w3m [www-browser] 0.5.2-2+b1WWW browsable pager with excellent pn xdaliclock (no description available) pn xfishtank (no description available) pn xscreensaver-gl(no description available) -- no debconf information -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
