Bug#614708: libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin
libc6 does no longer depend on libc-bin. This bug is fixed. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Bug#614708: libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 05:50:08PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > Given that half of the packages does that in the postinst, that's a lot > > to change. Until they are all changed, that just makes this change > > totally impossible. > > Fair enough; that does seem like the biggest issue. Would you consider > this change if those packages did so? Most packages don't do so by > hand, so fixing the various package-building helper packages would get > most of the way there. Probably not, I personally don't see the point of changing libc-bin to a recommends. It's going to cause to many problems, for so little gain. > (Also briefly entertaining the notion of having some kind of divertable > ldconfig -> /bin/true link. :) There's also the long-standing > discussion about triggerizing ldconfig, though I realize that proves > fairly intricate.) > > > > /usr/bin/catchsegv > > > > Ok > > > > > /usr/bin/getconf > > > > Required by POSIX > > > > > /usr/bin/getent > > > /usr/bin/iconv > > > > Required by POSIX > > > > > /usr/bin/ldd > > > > Ok > > > > > /usr/bin/localedef > > > /usr/bin/locale > > > > Required by POSIX > > > > > /usr/bin/tzselect > > > /usr/bin/rpcinfo > > > /usr/bin/zdump > > > > Ok > > > > > None required for a running system, just generally useful. > > > > As said above, most of them are need for POSIX compliance, they have to > > stay on the system. > > I had no idea. That does seem to argue for the "Essential: yes" you > suggest below, in which case reversing the dependency seems like the > best solution. > > > > So, in general, nothing in libc-bin has to exist for the system to work, > > > and only one thing (ldconfig) needs some extra care to make sure the > > > system can cope without its presence. > > > > Half of the tool are necessary for POSIX compliance. Also libc-bin 2.13 > > now provides a C.UTF-8 locale for Debian Policy compliance. > > Oh, awesome. I had no idea. Thank you very much, I look forward to > that. > > Any straightforward way for a script (.bashrc, for instance) to detect > the existence of C.UTF-8 in order to use it in preference to en_US.UTF-8 > if present? I have nothing ready, but you can probably try to set the locale, and look for errors. > > While I agree it's possible to run a half-broken system without libc-bin, > > that doesn't mean you just want it to be recommended. libc-bin is less > > than 750kB when installed, if you really want to gain space, I would > > suggest you to start by looking at essential packages (or their > > dependencies) taking a few MB. > > > > That's simply a wontfix for now, just to leave you the right to answer. > > Otherwise I would just close this bug. Seriously if you want to make so > > small system that you don't want to install libc-bin, just have a look > > at emdebian or other solutions. > > Might you consider moving the manpages to glibc-doc or similar, perhaps? No, that's against Policy 12.1. -- Aurelien Jarno GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 aurel...@aurel32.net http://www.aurel32.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#614708: libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 08:56:01PM +0100, Aurelien Jarno wrote: > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 04:03:18PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > Package: libc6 > > Version: 2.11.2-11 > > Severity: wishlist > > > > Looking carefully at the contents of libc-bin, it appears that libc6 > > could just Recommends libc-bin, rather than having a Depends on it. > > Specifically, taking the contents of libc-bin piece by piece: > > > > /etc/bindresvport.blacklist > > > > Not required to run programs, just a workaround for a conflict between > > RPC and a handful of services. > > > > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf > > > > Just adds /usr/local/lib; not a required component of a system. > > > > /etc/gai.conf > > While it is true, not having a dependency between the two makes very > difficult to handle the Only if you want to customize it. > > Consists entirely of commented-out defaults. > > > > /sbin/ldconfig > > > > Maintaining ld.so.cache makes the system run faster, but the system will > > run without it. The only caveat: any library packages would need to > > only run it if it exists. > > Given that half of the packages does that in the postinst, that's a lot > to change. Until they are all changed, that just makes this change > totally impossible. Fair enough; that does seem like the biggest issue. Would you consider this change if those packages did so? Most packages don't do so by hand, so fixing the various package-building helper packages would get most of the way there. (Also briefly entertaining the notion of having some kind of divertable ldconfig -> /bin/true link. :) There's also the long-standing discussion about triggerizing ldconfig, though I realize that proves fairly intricate.) > > /usr/bin/catchsegv > > Ok > > > /usr/bin/getconf > > Required by POSIX > > > /usr/bin/getent > > /usr/bin/iconv > > Required by POSIX > > > /usr/bin/ldd > > Ok > > > /usr/bin/localedef > > /usr/bin/locale > > Required by POSIX > > > /usr/bin/tzselect > > /usr/bin/rpcinfo > > /usr/bin/zdump > > Ok > > > None required for a running system, just generally useful. > > As said above, most of them are need for POSIX compliance, they have to > stay on the system. I had no idea. That does seem to argue for the "Essential: yes" you suggest below, in which case reversing the dependency seems like the best solution. > > So, in general, nothing in libc-bin has to exist for the system to work, > > and only one thing (ldconfig) needs some extra care to make sure the > > system can cope without its presence. > > Half of the tool are necessary for POSIX compliance. Also libc-bin 2.13 > now provides a C.UTF-8 locale for Debian Policy compliance. Oh, awesome. I had no idea. Thank you very much, I look forward to that. Any straightforward way for a script (.bashrc, for instance) to detect the existence of C.UTF-8 in order to use it in preference to en_US.UTF-8 if present? > While I agree it's possible to run a half-broken system without libc-bin, > that doesn't mean you just want it to be recommended. libc-bin is less > than 750kB when installed, if you really want to gain space, I would > suggest you to start by looking at essential packages (or their > dependencies) taking a few MB. > > That's simply a wontfix for now, just to leave you the right to answer. > Otherwise I would just close this bug. Seriously if you want to make so > small system that you don't want to install libc-bin, just have a look > at emdebian or other solutions. Might you consider moving the manpages to glibc-doc or similar, perhaps? > > On the flipside, though, libc-bin probably needs "Depends: libc6", since > > it includes various programs that need libc6. > > > > (Related to this: neither libc6 nor libc-bin has "Essential: yes", so > > programs already can't count on them without a dependency.) > > All that said, I agree that we should drop the dependency from libc6 to > libc-bin (and add the dependency in the other direction), and just make > libc-bin essential. Fair enough. That would prove more convenient, and I'd appreciate it greatly. Thanks, Josh Triplett -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#614708: libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin
tag 614708 + wontfix thanks On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 04:03:18PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > Package: libc6 > Version: 2.11.2-11 > Severity: wishlist > > Looking carefully at the contents of libc-bin, it appears that libc6 > could just Recommends libc-bin, rather than having a Depends on it. > Specifically, taking the contents of libc-bin piece by piece: > > /etc/bindresvport.blacklist > > Not required to run programs, just a workaround for a conflict between > RPC and a handful of services. > > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf > > Just adds /usr/local/lib; not a required component of a system. > > /etc/gai.conf While it is true, not having a dependency between the two makes very difficult to handle the > Consists entirely of commented-out defaults. > > /sbin/ldconfig > > Maintaining ld.so.cache makes the system run faster, but the system will > run without it. The only caveat: any library packages would need to > only run it if it exists. Given that half of the packages does that in the postinst, that's a lot to change. Until they are all changed, that just makes this change totally impossible. > /usr/bin/catchsegv Ok > /usr/bin/getconf Required by POSIX > /usr/bin/getent > /usr/bin/iconv Required by POSIX > /usr/bin/ldd Ok > /usr/bin/localedef > /usr/bin/locale Required by POSIX > /usr/bin/tzselect > /usr/bin/rpcinfo > /usr/bin/zdump Ok > None required for a running system, just generally useful. As said above, most of them are need for POSIX compliance, they have to stay on the system. > > /usr/lib > /usr/lib/pt_chown > > Not required for a running system, just useful. Ok > /usr/sbin/iconvconfig > /usr/sbin/zic Ok > Not required for a running system, just useful. > > /usr/share/man/* > > Helpful documentation but not required to run. Ok > /usr/share/doc/libc-bin/* > > Helpful documentation but not required to run. Ok > /usr/share/lintian/overrides/libc-bin > > Obviously not required. > Ok > So, in general, nothing in libc-bin has to exist for the system to work, > and only one thing (ldconfig) needs some extra care to make sure the > system can cope without its presence. Half of the tool are necessary for POSIX compliance. Also libc-bin 2.13 now provides a C.UTF-8 locale for Debian Policy compliance. While I agree it's possible to run a half-broken system without libc-bin, that doesn't mean you just want it to be recommended. libc-bin is less than 750kB when installed, if you really want to gain space, I would suggest you to start by looking at essential packages (or their dependencies) taking a few MB. That's simply a wontfix for now, just to leave you the right to answer. Otherwise I would just close this bug. Seriously if you want to make so small system that you don't want to install libc-bin, just have a look at emdebian or other solutions. > On the flipside, though, libc-bin probably needs "Depends: libc6", since > it includes various programs that need libc6. > > (Related to this: neither libc6 nor libc-bin has "Essential: yes", so > programs already can't count on them without a dependency.) All that said, I agree that we should drop the dependency from libc6 to libc-bin (and add the dependency in the other direction), and just make libc-bin essential. -- Aurelien Jarno GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73 aurel...@aurel32.net http://www.aurel32.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#614708: libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin
Package: libc6 Version: 2.11.2-11 Severity: wishlist Looking carefully at the contents of libc-bin, it appears that libc6 could just Recommends libc-bin, rather than having a Depends on it. Specifically, taking the contents of libc-bin piece by piece: /etc/bindresvport.blacklist Not required to run programs, just a workaround for a conflict between RPC and a handful of services. /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf Just adds /usr/local/lib; not a required component of a system. /etc/gai.conf Consists entirely of commented-out defaults. /sbin/ldconfig Maintaining ld.so.cache makes the system run faster, but the system will run without it. The only caveat: any library packages would need to only run it if it exists. /usr/bin/catchsegv /usr/bin/getconf /usr/bin/getent /usr/bin/iconv /usr/bin/ldd /usr/bin/localedef /usr/bin/locale /usr/bin/tzselect /usr/bin/rpcinfo /usr/bin/zdump None required for a running system, just generally useful. /usr/lib /usr/lib/pt_chown Not required for a running system, just useful. /usr/sbin/iconvconfig /usr/sbin/zic Not required for a running system, just useful. /usr/share/man/* Helpful documentation but not required to run. /usr/share/doc/libc-bin/* Helpful documentation but not required to run. /usr/share/lintian/overrides/libc-bin Obviously not required. So, in general, nothing in libc-bin has to exist for the system to work, and only one thing (ldconfig) needs some extra care to make sure the system can cope without its presence. On the flipside, though, libc-bin probably needs "Depends: libc6", since it includes various programs that need libc6. (Related to this: neither libc6 nor libc-bin has "Essential: yes", so programs already can't count on them without a dependency.) This came up when trying to build a *very* minimal system with debootstrap, and auditing all the dependencies very carefully. - Josh Triplett and Jamey Sharp -- System Information: Debian Release: wheezy/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 2.6.37-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.utf8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages libc6 depends on: ii libc-bin 2.11.2-11 Embedded GNU C Library: Binaries ii libgcc1 1:4.4.5-12 GCC support library libc6 recommends no packages. Versions of packages libc6 suggests: ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.5.38 Debian configuration management sy ii glibc-doc 2.11.2-11 Embedded GNU C Library: Documentat ii locales 2.11.2-11 Embedded GNU C Library: National L -- debconf information excluded -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
