Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
On 09/13/2011 05:08 PM, Diggory Hardy wrote: > Short version of the story is that increasing the checkpoint interval (even > quite drastically since checkpoints are only useful should the application > crash in a non-deterministic fashion or be killed unexpectedly) should help, > but I don't know what else can be done. Checkpointing has been ruled out - at least the user configurable part of it. My machine is on somewhat close to 24/7 and as such does not need any checkpointing. I am hence checkpointing every 100 seconds or so. Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Just to chip in, I've had a few complaints about this as one of the guys behind malariacontrol.net. The basic formula for the volume of data being saved to disk per hour is s*f*n where s is the size of a checkpoint, f is the frequency (num written per hour), and n is the number of jobs active in parallel. Obviously* *keeping *s* small is the job of the project (we try, but there is a limit),* n* is up to the user, but *f* is specified by the client/user and AFAICT the client default cannot be specified by the project (we had one guy complain that several computers using 1000MBit/s NAS were totally choking the network). Short version of the story is that increasing the checkpoint interval (even quite drastically since checkpoints are only useful should the application crash in a non-deterministic fashion or be killed unexpectedly) should help, but I don't know what else can be done. -Diggory
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Hi Kevin, You probably posted as same time as me above. 3 points I disagree with you: 1. Clean Energy project system requirements do NOT state the high disk transfer. It just mention the large disk space needed (2Gb). (so nothing to see with the up to 2.9Gb/hr I found) Ref: When selecting projects in "My Projects" (https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/ms/viewMyProjects.do) there is a link near Clean Energy project stating "Please review the system requirements before opting to participate in this project" I stored this link in system_requirements.txt I don't see the disk transfer in it. 2. Boinc should control (1) your project and (2) where the data are saved See my <3> in previous message. 3. I never had 3 workunits running in parallel. I don't know why above shows like that (3 "in progress" = another bug ?, or because I aborted units ?), but I only have one dual core, so max 2 units runs in parallel. But you are right, I don't remember having seen 2 workunits from Clean Energy project running at same time. I do agree that further discussions specific to WCG should happen on WCG Forum. Thanks, Franck System Requirements What are the recommended minimum system specifications? How much data will I download and upload while participating with World Community Grid? How do I know if my computer is running the 64-bit research application? What are the recommended minimum system specifications? In order to participate in World Community Grid, you will need to have at least the following: The ability to display graphics (if you wish to see the graphics) An Internet connection In addition, each research project has its own requirement for memory and disk space. These are as follows: Research ProjectMemory AvailableDisk Space Operating Systems Computing for Clean Water 400 MB 100 MB Windows1,5, Mac, Linux3,5 The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 1,024 MB2,048 MB Windows1, Mac, Linux3,4 Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together - Phase 2 1,024 MB250 MB Windows1, Mac, Linux3 Help Cure Muscular Dystrophy - Phase 2 64 MB 50 MB Windows1, Mac2, Linux3 Help Fight Childhood Cancer 250 MB 100 MB Windows1, Mac, Linux3 Help Conquer Cancer 250 MB 50 MB Windows1, Mac, Linux3 Human Proteome Folding - Phase 2250 MB 100 MB Windows1, Mac2, Linux3 FightAIDS@Home 250 MB 100 MB Windows1, Mac, Linux3 1. World Community Grid supports the following Windows platforms: Windows XP, Vista, 7, Server 2003, Server 2008 2. For these projects, only Mac computers using Intel processors are supported 3. Only Linux on x86 and x86-64 is supported 4. Users who choose to run this project are encouraged to set the 'Leave applications in memory while suspended' option in their device profile 5. 64-bit application available Return to Top How much data will I download and upload while participating with World Community Grid? The amount of data that you transfer depends upon how your processing preferences are set to run, how powerful your computer is and how often your computer is on. It also varies based upon which research projects you run on your computer. An average computer contributing to World Community Grid returns about 2 results per day. Each of the research projects at World Community Grid uses a different application, input files and output files. As a result, the size used for each of these varies by project. This is outlined on the chart below. Please note that the data is compressed during transfer and is decompressed after it has been downloaded. As a result it will occupy more space on disk than the numbers shown below. Research ProjectOne-Time Download Per Workunit Download Per Workunit Upload Computing for Clean Water 10 MB 0.001 MB0.5 MB The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 200 MB 0.1 MB 20 - 80 MB Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together - Phase 2 10 MB 1-20 MB 1 MB Help Cure Muscular Dystrophy - Phase 2 0.7 MB 0.1 MB 0.2 MB Help Fight Childhood Cancer 1.0 MB 0.1 MB 0.1 MB Help Conquer Cancer 1.0 MB 0.1 MB 0.1 MB Human Proteome Folding - Phase 212.0 MB 1.5 MB 0.1 MB FightAIDS@Home 1.5 MB 0.1 MB 0.1 MB Return to Top How do I know if my computer is running the 64-bit research application? On a Windows machine, you can use the Windows task manager to view the process name. 64-bit research applications will end with "windows_intelx86_64", while 32-bit applications will end with "windows_intelx86" On a Linux machine, you can find the PID of the research application (which will start with the name "wcg") and then execute the command "file -L /proc//exe" There is no 64-bit research application for Mac machines at this time.
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
BOINC is not causing the heavy IO - it is the research application 'The Clean Energy Project' from World Community Grid. That research application uses very heavy disk IO. This is why when a user signs up to participate at World Community Grid, 'The Clean Energy Project' it is not selected by default and there is a warning that says "Please review the system requirements before opting to participate in this project ". There is a link to the system requirements that states that 2GB of disk space is required. Additionally, if a user still proceeds to select the project, they will be limited to only have one workunit for the project at a time downloaded by the BOINC client. In the information above, the user has three workunits downloaded. This means that they took further action to change the default behavior through an option that is buried pretty deeply in preferences. Further discussion of this issue is most appropriately handled on the World Community Grid forums for this research application at http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/listthreads?forum=480 thanks, Kevin Reed World Community Grid Technical Support
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Hi Steffen, Thanks for your input. As on your system you have low disk IO, I reinstalled boinc (this time manually on HDD) and checked one application at a time from project "Wold Community Grid". <1> Conditions: IO throughput for 1 task running at a time (if 2 runnings at same time => I divided by 2 the write IO/hr) On a dual core Core2@3.2Ghz (faster CPU/more cores will have higher write IO). Set "Task check point to disk at most every" 6s <2> Findings: It is application dependant: - Nice applications (write small amount) (ca. 200kb/min) Help Conquer Cancer (ca. 800kb/min) FightAIDS@Home - Guilty application: The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 This one write *** 2 to 2.9 Gb/hr *** ! (again only 1 running on one core on an old CPU) And nearly no read => that's a waste of participant's ressources and computer. 'System Requirements' announced on 'World Community Grid' says Memory Available 1,024 MB Disk Space 2,048 MB But nowhere it is indicated that it is so write intensive ! Their might be other guilty applications, but I cannot check them all. Furthermore it may be task dependant too. <3> Conclusion I think Boinc should control applications, and allow the user to set 'max writing', as it todays allow 'max cpu', 'max memory'. Thus suggested potential solutions: a- Applications to announce estimated write I/O (read I/O too?) b- Boinc allow user to limit max I/O per tasks (and if exceed, stop task & use other applications). When user set, can compare to Application announcement to avoid starting with limit < estimation. c- install by default in /home (ex: /home/boinc) not in /var/lib/boinc-client. This will increase the chances to land on a HDD and not on a SSD. <4> details 'Clean Energy Project - Phase 2' IO Conditions: - $ time iotop -u boinc -a might need to install 'aptitude install iotop' - check that Process ID are the same before and after measurements. Because some processes disappear and new ones appear (during same task!); but iotop only shows current running Processes, not anymore disappeared one => one can miss some IO. - with Project 'World Community Grid' Application 'The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 6.40' Starting task E202831_920_C.27.C21H11NOS3Si.00590497.3.set1d06_1 using cep2 version 640 - Set "Task check point to disk at most every" 6s Result1: TID PRIO USER DISK READ DISK WRITE SWAPIN IO>COMMAND 5328 idle boinc 0.00 B 1180.60 M 0.00 % 0.01 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 5151 idle boinc 0.00 B140.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5153 idle boinc 0.00 B 32.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5330 idle boinc 0.00 B112.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 1951 idle boinc 0.00 B 84.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % boinc --check_all_logins --redirectio --dir /var/lib/boinc-client 5152 idle boinc 0.00 B 0.00 B 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5329 idle boinc 0.00 B 0.00 B 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 real 26m45.474s user 0m10.609s sys0m2.836s 1180.6/(26*60+455)*3600/1024 = 2.06Gb/hr Result2: TID PRIO USER DISK READ DISK WRITE SWAPIN IO>COMMAND 5328 idle boinc 0.00 B829.65 M 0.00 % 0.01 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 5151 idle boinc 0.00 B 84.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5153 idle boinc 0.00 B 28.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5330 idle boinc 0.00 B 64.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 1951 idle boinc 0.00 B 56.00 K 0.00 % 0.00 % boinc --check_all_logins --redirectio --dir /var/lib/boinc-client 5152 idle boinc 0.00 B 0.00 B 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~chem_prod_linux.x86 -float 1 -stop 43200 5329 idle boinc 0.00 B 0.00 B 0.00 % 0.00 % ../../projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.o~86.svp.n.opt 2378613406239751723 41381 0 real 16m55.249s user 0m6.636s sys0m1.816s 829.65/(16*60+55)*3600/1024 = 2.87Gb/hr ResultA: Just for the fun, I let it run Total DISK READ: 0.00 B/s | Total DISK WRITE: 0.00 B/s TID PRIO USER DISK READ DISK WRITE
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Hello Steffen, First thank you very much for your quick comments ! I am sorry that I couldn't convince you. > The BOINC client itself does about nothing. How much IO is required just > depends on the scientific application. I also thought that the IO amount may depend of the project, and not of boinc directly. But boinc manage the projects and I can only file bugs against boinc so I hope it is acceptable. Thanks for your '$du' data, but I wish to underline that the point is the disk IO amount, not the footprint on the disk. So 'du' will not help you to see it (because you can overwrite many times the same data, du will not show you that). (FYI from memory I had something like 100Mb footprint used by boinc. Now deleted (maybe I should have kept but...)) How is your disk IO amount ? $ iostat ( to have it you may need to #aptitude install sysstat ) > I could suggest to upstream to have the individual projects announce their > estimate for max disk space and disk I/O per task. - Yes announcing disk I/O write amount would be a good idea. - How do you think on ? (if easy to do) "install by default in /home/boinc (create a specific user). This will increase the chances to land on a HDD and not on a SSD." Because I assume, normally people don't put their home on a SSD (and people having a laptop maybe won't run boinc). > This would be a wishlist item, then. I put 'important' because it has a major effect on an SSD, which for me make boinc unusable. "4 important = a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without rendering it completely unusable to everyone." My point was to warn other users about heavy writings involved, to avoid them wearing out to quickly their SSD. I don't think this belong to 'wishlist', because nobody would see it. I hope you can have the same opinion than me. If you are not yet convinced by your own iostat (then you are a lucky guy... or I must be very unlucky), here are: 1. from my ssd smart 198 Total Read Sectors 1054749553 199 Total Write Sectors 2404159500 200 Total Read Command 18727160 201 Total Write Command 18137047 208 avg Erase 485 209 remaining life 91 As you see, Total Write >> Total Read => To come to such Totals, I assume it is not linked to only one project, but to many projects. 2. boinc start-stop impact on iostat See start-stop-boinc-impact.txt Not so long test, but gives some ideas. Below command also showed high write activities when boinc was running. I have no records, but you should just let it run for a while and look at it. Time to time shots of several 10Mb are written. $ iostat -p /dev/sda 2 > You had not mentioned the project you were joining. Sorry I didn't record which projects were runnings (2 at same time, dualcore) when I tested. Looking at http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org selected projects are: The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 Help Conquer Cancer Human Proteome Folding - Phase 2 FightAIDS@Home Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together - Phase 2 The Clean Energy Project Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together These are the last tasks I ran X119570355201005271402_ 0-- In Progress 7/30/11 19:27:518/6/11 19:27:51 0.000.0 / 0.0 X119570353201005271402_ 0-- In Progress 7/30/11 19:27:518/6/11 19:27:51 0.000.0 / 0.0 X119570311201005271403_ 0-- In Progress 7/30/11 19:27:278/6/11 19:27:27 0.000.0 / 0.0 E202814_ 445_ C.28.C18H6N6OS2Se.00479563.4.set1d06_ 0-- In Progress 7/30/11 19:27:278/9/11 19:27:27 0.000.0 / 0.0 or465_ 6_ 10-- User Aborted7/30/11 19:24:047/30/11 19:27:270.000.0 / 0.0 X119571294201005131342_ 1-- User Aborted7/30/11 19:24:037/30/11 19:24:370.000.0 / 0.0 X119571297201005131342_ 1-- User Aborted7/30/11 19:23:457/30/11 19:27:270.010.4 / 0.0 E202814_ 977_ C.27.C19H8N4S3Se.00538161.3.set1d06_ 0-- User Aborted 7/30/11 19:23:427/30/11 19:27:270.010.3 / 0.0 faah23578_ ZINC00631422_ x1HHPxtl_ 03_ 1-- User Aborted7/30/11 13:14:367/30/11 16:39:550.000.1 / 0.0 E202811_ 452_ C.27.C24H14N2O.00075148.3.set1d06_ 0--User Aborted 7/30/11 11:23:297/30/11 16:39:550.113.5 / 0.0 X119500648201005260958_ 1-- Valid 7/30/11 10:57:43 7/30/11 16:39:551.0431.4 / 24.2 X119500657201005260958_ 1-- Valid 7/30/11 10:57:42 7/30/11 13:14:351.2136.3 / 27.1 faah23575_ ZINC00871887_ x1HHPxtl_ 01_ 0-- User Aborted7/30/11 09:38:527/30/11 16:39:553.24
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Hello, On 07/30/2011 10:04 PM, franck wrote: Package: boinc-client Version: 6.12.33+dfsg-1 Severity: important Boinc is (too) disk intensive. Have many thanks for your comment. You had not convinced me, though. The BOINC client itself does about nothing. How much IO is required just depends on the scientific application. The BOINC manager tells about the disk space every scientific application needs. And you can control that amount. Here my data $ sudo du -sh /var/lib/boinc-client/ 9.4M/var/lib/boinc-client/ I could suggest to upstream to have the individual projects announce their estimate for max disk space and disk I/O per task. I presume you don't mind reads so much but worry about too many writes. The user would then need to explicitly OK those values when a project is joined. Is that what you are asking for? This would be a wishlist item, then. You had not mentioned the project you were joining. I could try explaining what you observed, or might need to forward you to the respective project's forum. Thanks and regards, Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#636075: boinc-client: Boinc is (too) disk intensive
Package: boinc-client Version: 6.12.33+dfsg-1 Severity: important Boinc is (too) disk intensive. Hello Boinc users and maintainers, I was shocked to see that boinc is a writing a lot on disk. Several Gigabytes in a few hours seems usual ! This is simply too much. As the default installation path is /var/lib/boinc-client this happens to be on /dev/sda in my case (and probably for most). This will just kill my SSD at the end. But even by manually relocating it to a HDD, I think this is too much disk usage. So I would suggest: 1. Short time countermeasure - boinc users: check with 'iostat' you disk usage. Especially if you have SSD. Move boinc somewhere else if your SSD suffers. - boinc maintainer: -- better to put a warning somewhere before user activates boinc "Warning: important disk writing can occur (several Gb/hr disk) => avoid installing on SSD" -- install by default in /home/boinc (create a specific user). This will increase the chances to land on a HDD and not on a SDD. 2. Best Investigate why the hell does boinc need to write so much. As writing >> reading amount, I guess it is just to backup intermediate results that are not needed for further calculations. Notes: - 'Task checkpoint to disk at most every' initially set to 60s. I tried 1000s but saw no change. In both cases several Mb are written before any 60s interval. - I am not sure if this is dependant of the tasks or not. - from my side I will deinstall boinc :-( I do hope above will prevent others from beeing suprised of premature SSD failure (unfortunately SSD are silents & quick so I didn't notice anything before playing with iostat). Thanks for the long reading. Franck -- Package-specific info: -- Contents of /etc/default/boinc-client: # This file is /etc/default/boinc-client, it is a configuration file for the # /etc/init.d/boinc-client init script. # Set this to 1 to enable and to 0 to disable the init script. ENABLED="1" # Set this to 1 to enable advanced scheduling of the BOINC core client and # all its sub-processes (reduces the impact of BOINC on the system's # performance). SCHEDULE="1" # The BOINC core client will be started with the permissions of this user. BOINC_USER="boinc" # This is the data directory of the BOINC core client. BOINC_DIR="/var/lib/boinc-client" # This is the location of the BOINC core client, that the init script uses. # If you do not want to use the client program provided by the boinc-client # package, you can specify here an alternative client program. #BOINC_CLIENT="/usr/local/bin/boinc" BOINC_CLIENT="/usr/bin/boinc" # Here you can specify additional options to pass to the BOINC core client. # Type 'boinc --help' or 'man boinc' for a full summary of allowed options. #BOINC_OPTS="--allow_remote_gui_rpc" BOINC_OPTS="" -- System Information: Debian Release: wheezy/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 3.0.0-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Versions of packages boinc-client depends on: ii adduser 3.113add and remove users and groups ii ca-certificates 20110502 Common CA certificates ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.5.41 Debian configuration management sy ii libc6 2.13-11 Embedded GNU C Library: Shared lib ii libcurl37.21.6-3 Multi-protocol file transfer libra ii libgcc1 1:4.6.1-5GCC support library ii libssl1.0.0 1.0.0d-3 SSL shared libraries ii libstdc++6 4.6.1-5 GNU Standard C++ Library v3 ii python 2.6.7-2 interactive high-level object-orie ii zlib1g 1:1.2.3.4.dfsg-3 compression library - runtime Versions of packages boinc-client recommends: ii ia32-libs 20110609 ia32 shared libraries for use on a Versions of packages boinc-client suggests: pn boinc-app-seti (no description available) ii boinc-manager 6.12.33+dfsg-1 GUI to control and monitor the BOI ii x11-xserver-utils 7.6+3 X server utilities -- Configuration Files: /etc/boinc-client/global_prefs_override.xml changed: 0 1 0 3.00 55.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 0.05 0.40 100.00 120.00 1000.00 5.50 50.00 2.00 50.00 25.00 50.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 0.00 0 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
