Bug#646150: the events "team" / Re: Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Joost van Baal-Ilić]

On Sat, Jul 06, 2013 at 07:42:17PM -0400, David Prévot wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 10:17:03AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 15:34 +0100, Luca Capello wrote:
> > 
> > > I have started to document this on a wiki page [1], I will wait one more
> > > week before sending an RFC to the d-publicity@ mailing list.
> > > 
> > > [1] 
> 
> Since there doesn’t seem to be any team willing to update the
> ww.d.o/events section any more [2], is this issue still relevant?
> 
>   2: 
> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/index.wml?r1=1.43&r2=1.44
> 
> The organization page [3] nevertheless list ten names for that team, is
> it still relevant to keep it on this page? If so, who is actually still
> active in this team?
> 
>   3: http://www.debian.org/intro/organization#publicity

My € 0,02: Indeed, maybe calling it a "team" is too much.  I know of some
yearly events where Debian has been represented succesfully for a lot of years,
and I'm sure will continue to be represented.  It just seems to work: people
know who to expect, without too much overhead.

Bye,

Joost


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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Arne Wichmann]

begin  quotation  from David Prévot (in 
<20130706234216.ga28...@mikado.tilapin.org>):
> On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 10:17:03AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 15:34 +0100, Luca Capello wrote:
> > > I have started to document this on a wiki page [1], I will wait one more
> > > week before sending an RFC to the d-publicity@ mailing list.
> > > 
> > > [1] 
> 
> Since there doesn???t seem to be any team willing to update the
> ww.d.o/events section any more [2], is this issue still relevant?
> 
>   2: 
> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/index.wml?r1=1.43&r2=1.44

As far as I can see this is not the case. I am not willing to update the
events page, but see below.

begin  quotation  from Luca Capello (in ):
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2013 01:42:17 +0200, David Prévot wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 10:17:03AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
[...]
> Good catch, bug closed, but as a wontfix since the solution has been
> implemented in another "package" (wiki.d.o).
> 
> > The organization page [3] nevertheless list ten names for that team, is
> > it still relevant to keep it on this page? If so, who is actually still
> > active in this team?
> >
> > 3: http://www.debian.org/intro/organization#publicity
> 
> The last check done around 2013-05-20 [4] resulted in at least three
> replies (Arne, Joost and Martin).  I will monitor the events@d.o mailbox
> until DebConf13 and then step down, after having removed my name from
> that page (and consequently asking from my removal from events@d.o).

In the last months I have been the only person noticeably reacting to mails
to eve...@debian.org apart from Luca. As I am unwilling to work with the
debian www pages on a regular basis I stopped maintaining the events list
and added a link to the evnts page at wiki.debian.org. I am willing to keep
that current and add any event that is reported to events@d.o. for the time
being. If somebody pops up and is willing to maintain the events list I am
willing to revert this.

cu

AW
-- 
[...] If you don't want to be restricted, don't agree to it. If you are
coerced, comply as much as you must to protect yourself, just don't support
it. Noone can free you but yourself. (crag, on Debian Planet)
Arne Wichmann (a...@linux.de)


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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Paul Wise]

On Sat, 2013-07-06 at 19:42 -0400, David Prévot wrote:

> Since there doesn’t seem to be any team willing to update the
> ww.d.o/events section any more [2], is this issue still relevant?
> 
> 2: 
> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/index.wml?r1=1.43&r2=1.44
> 
> The organization page [3] nevertheless list ten names for that team, is
> it still relevant to keep it on this page? If so, who is actually still
> active in this team?
> 
> 3: http://www.debian.org/intro/organization#publicity

I think dropping the events page is a bit sad and I would volunteer to
join the team to save it, except it looks like the decision has already
been made to close the team so I guess this bug should be closed.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[David Prévot]

On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 10:17:03AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 15:34 +0100, Luca Capello wrote:
> 
> > I have started to document this on a wiki page [1], I will wait one more
> > week before sending an RFC to the d-publicity@ mailing list.
> > 
> > [1] 

Since there doesn’t seem to be any team willing to update the
ww.d.o/events section any more [2], is this issue still relevant?

2: 
http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/index.wml?r1=1.43&r2=1.44

The organization page [3] nevertheless list ten names for that team, is
it still relevant to keep it on this page? If so, who is actually still
active in this team?

3: http://www.debian.org/intro/organization#publicity

Regards

David




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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Paul Wise]

On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 15:34 +0100, Luca Capello wrote:

> I have started to document this on a wiki page [1], I will wait one more
> week before sending an RFC to the d-publicity@ mailing list.
> 
> [1] 

Some thoughts

abbr: sometimes the event itself will have defined a preferred
abbreviation (ie DebConf12 or 28C3). Otherwise using the filename and
year seems fine.

year: indeed, start_date, end_date should be enough.

> Fully agreed, if we want as much specificity as possible the
> PHYSICAL_LOCATION should be included, so the tag would be (information
> in brackets are optional):
> 
>   [PHYSICAL_LOCATION,] CITY [(STATE_ABBREVIATED)], COUNTRY, GPS_COORDINATES

Looks good. In the actual WML I would suggest separating these out into
specific tags and then combining them in the HTML output, since you
might want different data in the iCal format.

> However, all these information can cause the line in the event page [2]
> to be too long.  Just imagine for FOSDEM 2007 [3] (discussion about the
> date format is at #650378 [4]):

Hmm, agreed. I would suggest that maybe the location information should
be short at the top (just city/country), with a link to a sub-section of
the page for more information.

> a) the requirement for the tag is the line above.

As above, I suggest splitting the tag into separate pieces.

> b) PHYSICAL_LOCATION should be a *single* building or institution,
>without any comma, so in the example above not "Université Libre de
>Bruxelles, Campus Solbosh", but "ULB Campus Solbosh".

Sounds good.

> c) GPS_COORDINATES must be present and in a standard form: despite me
>not being able to find a reference [5], I would say that the form
>should be 'DEGREES MINUTES SECONDS CARDINAL-DIRECTION' (with symbols
>instead of spaces).  FYI, Wikipedia's city page for Brussels [6] use:

Sounds good.

>* 50°51'0"N 4°21'0"E
>  when in a graphical browser (Iceweasel) 
> 
>* 50°51'0"N 4°21'0"E / 50.85°N 4.35°E / 50.85; 4.35
>  when in a textual browser (w3m)

I don't think the middle one is needed, but the last one would be useful
I guess. Its a shame that there is no HTML tag for locations, there is a
microformat for that though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_(microformat)

>I do not know which map these coordinates should be linked to either:
>the one linked to by Wikipedia is GeoHack [7], which seems a good
>option also because it offers the possibility to create a link with
>"custom" coordinates [8].  If we should choose a real map, then I
>will go for OpenStreetMap [9].

I personally lean towards just OpenStreetMap. If people want to use the
non-free services they can copy and paste the GPS co-ordinates into the
search field on those maps. Most of the ones I tried (Google, Bing,
Yahoo) understand the format you have given above. There are some that
do not (at least maps.nokia.com, whereis.com.au) though. 

If we go with OpenStreetMap there will need to be an osm_zoom tag to
specify how far to zoom in.

> d) the event page [2] will show only the second and third fields, which
>means CITY (plus STATE if present) and COUNTRY, while each specific
>page [3] will have everything.

Sounds good.

A region specification would be useful for people who haven't heard of
the country, so they will be able to have a general location.

I would suggest a link to the venue page for the conference.

I've made a mockup of my suggestions above here:

http://people.debian.org/~pabs/tmp/0707-debconf.html

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Luca Capello]

tags 646150 + patch
thanks

Hi there!

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 06:39:45 +0200, Paul Wise wrote:
> [Please CC me in reply]

Done.

I have started to document this on a wiki page [1], I will wait one more
week before sending an RFC to the d-publicity@ mailing list.

[1] 

> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Luca Capello wrote:
>> In the second case, AFAIK the current policy is "CITY, COUNTRY" and it
>> has been like this for the events since 1999, with some exceptions like
>> "PHYSICAL_LOCATION, CITY, COUNTRY" (with PHYSICAL_LOCATION being the
>> building or the institution) or "CITY, STATE, COUNTRY" (especially true
>> for some USA locations).
>
> I would like as much specificity as possible in the location
> information, possibly even including GPS co-ordinates of the
> reception/start point and or a link to OpenStreetMap or the map
> provided by the event organisers if any exists.

Fully agreed, if we want as much specificity as possible the
PHYSICAL_LOCATION should be included, so the tag would be (information
in brackets are optional):

  [PHYSICAL_LOCATION,] CITY [(STATE_ABBREVIATED)], COUNTRY, GPS_COORDINATES

However, all these information can cause the line in the event page [2]
to be too long.  Just imagine for FOSDEM 2007 [3] (discussion about the
date format is at #650378 [4]):

- [February 24th - 25th] Free and Open Source Developers' European Meeting, 
Brussels, Belgium
+ [February 24th - 25th] Free and Open Source Developers' European Meeting, ULB 
Campus Solbosh, Brussels, Belgium, +50.812650;+4.380320
+ [February 24th - 25th] Free and Open Source Developers' European Meeting, ULB 
Campus Solbosh, Brussels, Belgium, 50.812650 N 4.380320 E
+ [February 24th - 25th] Free and Open Source Developers' European Meeting, ULB 
Campus Solbosh, Brussels, Belgium, 50°51'0"N 4°21'0"E

[2] 
[3] 
[4] 

Here my proposition which I will add to the wiki as well:

a) the requirement for the tag is the line above.

b) PHYSICAL_LOCATION should be a *single* building or institution,
   without any comma, so in the example above not "Université Libre de
   Bruxelles, Campus Solbosh", but "ULB Campus Solbosh".

c) GPS_COORDINATES must be present and in a standard form: despite me
   not being able to find a reference [5], I would say that the form
   should be 'DEGREES MINUTES SECONDS CARDINAL-DIRECTION' (with symbols
   instead of spaces).  FYI, Wikipedia's city page for Brussels [6] use:

   * 50°51'0"N 4°21'0"E
 when in a graphical browser (Iceweasel) 

   * 50°51'0"N 4°21'0"E / 50.85°N 4.35°E / 50.85; 4.35
 when in a textual browser (w3m)

   I do not know which map these coordinates should be linked to either:
   the one linked to by Wikipedia is GeoHack [7], which seems a good
   option also because it offers the possibility to create a link with
   "custom" coordinates [8].  If we should choose a real map, then I
   will go for OpenStreetMap [9].

[5] 
[6] 
[7] 
[8] 
[9] 

d) the event page [2] will show only the second and third fields, which
   means CITY (plus STATE if present) and COUNTRY, while each specific
   page [3] will have everything.

I stop here for today :-)

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca


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Bug#646150: [Mini DebConf India] Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[pavithran s]

agree that there were confusions . The current event would be Mini
Debconf India mangalore edition .  Kerala and pune editions have
already been finished .



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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Paul Wise]

[Please CC me in reply]

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Luca Capello wrote:

> Please keep the events@d.o address in the loop.

Doing so.

> In the first case, I do not think that we should enforce any policy
> about how to define the name for a specific event.  This because it is
> up to the organizers of the event to decide its name.

Agreed.

> In the second case, AFAIK the current policy is "CITY, COUNTRY" and it
> has been like this for the events since 1999, with some exceptions like
> "PHYSICAL_LOCATION, CITY, COUNTRY" (with PHYSICAL_LOCATION being the
> building or the institution) or "CITY, STATE, COUNTRY" (especially true
> for some USA locations).

I would like as much specificity as possible in the location
information, possibly even including GPS co-ordinates of the
reception/start point and or a link to OpenStreetMap or the map
provided by the event organisers if any exists.

> I would enforce the policy defining the location as "CITY [(STATE)],
> COUNTRY", for the very simple reason that the PHYSICAL_LOCATION is not
> always well defined (e.g. a university is not a building).  STATE is not
> mandatory, but if present it should be in parenthesis.  If it should be
> abbreviated (my preference) or not is another point that should be
> defined.

State abbreviation should be fine IMO.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise



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Bug#646150: www.debian.org: please define a policy for event locations

[Luca Capello]

Package: www.debian.org
Severity: normal
User: eve...@debian.org
Usertags: events-list

Hi there!

Please keep the events@d.o address in the loop.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:47:29 +0200, David Prévot wrote:
> If I understood correctly, Mangalore is a town, not a state.
>
> If that's true, the Mangalore edition [1] seems a bit inconsistant with
> the Kerala edition [2], since they both take place in another town
> (respectively Nitte and Malappuram): while Malappuram is a town of the
> Kerala state, Nitte of course can't be a town of Mangalore.
>
> 1: http://www.debian.org/events/2011/1028-minidebconf-india-mangalore
> 2: http://www.debian.org/events/2011/0422-minidebconf-india-kerala

Thank you for having brought up this issue, which has actually two
sides: first, the name for a specific event and, second, which kind of
policy we have for the location (the WML "where" tag).

In the first case, I do not think that we should enforce any policy
about how to define the name for a specific event.  This because it is
up to the organizers of the event to decide its name.

In the second case, AFAIK the current policy is "CITY, COUNTRY" and it
has been like this for the events since 1999, with some exceptions like
"PHYSICAL_LOCATION, CITY, COUNTRY" (with PHYSICAL_LOCATION being the
building or the institution) or "CITY, STATE, COUNTRY" (especially true
for some USA locations).

I would enforce the policy defining the location as "CITY [(STATE)],
COUNTRY", for the very simple reason that the PHYSICAL_LOCATION is not
always well defined (e.g. a university is not a building).  STATE is not
mandatory, but if present it should be in parenthesis.  If it should be
abbreviated (my preference) or not is another point that should be
defined.

Please note that in a recent case, however, the Events team was asked to
change the location with a more-known one [3].  Nevertheless, I still
think that we should be strict on this policy (which means the above
commit should be reverted), especially because strangers could not be
aware of local practices for city names/locations.

[3] 


Going back to your specific case, please note that I decided to use the
names present on the on the general India Mini-DebConf 2011 website [4].
However, I would like a bit more consistency when organizing different
sub-events, given your remark.  And moreover the Pune edition [5] is
also called "Mini-DebConf Maharashtra" in the Kerala edition wiki page
[6] (which name BTW is misleading).

[4] 
[5] 
[6] 

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca

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