Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
On Wed, Oct 05, 2016 at 09:25:34AM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: >... > As Tobias Frost already said, the support for MIPS Cobalt has been removed > in Jessie. >... Nitpick: It was me who said that. > In addition they won't be able to run Stretch either. Thanks. > Aurelien cu Adrian -- "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. "Only a promise," Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
On 2016-10-04 23:58, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 08:28:47AM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > > Hi Adrian, Chris > > > > Am Sonntag, den 25.09.2016, 22:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Lamb: > > > Adrian, > > > > > > > > > > > [..] > > > > > > In the first case please re-upload the latest version and ping me; I > > > will > > > fast-track it through NEW. > > > > > > (Or Tobias uploads, it doesn't matter). > > > > I do not have intention to reintroduce it. It should be done by someone > > how wants to take care about it -- as Maintainer. Without maintainer we > > will have it rotting again. > >... > > "rotting" is just a way to make "it worked" sound bad. > > I am still hoping that someone of the MIPS maintainers could say whether > or not there is a chance that some Cobalts might still be working with > stretch - this is the relevant question. As Tobias Frost already said, the support for MIPS Cobalt has been removed in Jessie. In addition they won't be able to run Stretch either. So it was good to get this now useless package removed. Aurelien -- Aurelien Jarno GPG: 4096R/1DDD8C9B aurel...@aurel32.net http://www.aurel32.net
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 08:28:47AM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > Hi Adrian, Chris > > Am Sonntag, den 25.09.2016, 22:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Lamb: > > Adrian, > > > > > > > > [..] > > > > In the first case please re-upload the latest version and ping me; I > > will > > fast-track it through NEW. > > > > (Or Tobias uploads, it doesn't matter). > > I do not have intention to reintroduce it. It should be done by someone > how wants to take care about it -- as Maintainer. Without maintainer we > will have it rotting again. >... "rotting" is just a way to make "it worked" sound bad. I am still hoping that someone of the MIPS maintainers could say whether or not there is a chance that some Cobalts might still be working with stretch - this is the relevant question. cu Adrian -- "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. "Only a promise," Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
Hi Adrian, Chris Am Sonntag, den 25.09.2016, 22:09 +0100 schrieb Chris Lamb: > Adrian, > > > > > [..] > > In the first case please re-upload the latest version and ping me; I > will > fast-track it through NEW. > > (Or Tobias uploads, it doesn't matter). I do not have intention to reintroduce it. It should be done by someone how wants to take care about it -- as Maintainer. Without maintainer we will have it rotting again. (FTR I disagree with Adrians assessment but this topic is closed for me.) > Regards, >
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
Adrian, > [..] In the first case please re-upload the latest version and ping me; I will fast-track it through NEW. (Or Tobias uploads, it doesn't matter). Regards, -- ,''`. : :' : Chris Lamb `. `'` la...@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk `-
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:33:13PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > Adrian, > > Am Donnerstag, den 22.09.2016, 12:15 +0300 schrieb Adrian Bunk: > > On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 12:33:00PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > > > > > > Followup-For: Bug #673959 > > > Control: reassign 673959 ftp.debian.org > > > Control: retitle 673959 RM: cobalt-panel-utils -- RoQA, low popcon, > > > dead upstream, unmaintained > > > > > > I think this software is EOL and should be removed. > > > Popcon is 1 and the Homepage does not exist anymore. > > > > Hi Tobias, > > > > did you ever bother to check what this package you successfully > > managed > > to get removed from unstable actually does before claiming that it > > would > > be EOL? > > Hey, calm down. > > Of course I checked the package throughly before coming to this > decision. I never take RM requests lightly. I do not think that you checked this thoroughly enough. You removed a package providing hardware support without checking whether the hardware is on machines still supported by Debian. > > popcon is never a good metric for verifying that there are no users. > > Popcon is an important data point, but for of course not the only one. Treating popcon as an important data point is not good. Popcon is not very represenative, especially for special-purpose software. > > Even less for a package like cobalt-panel-tils, that provides > > hardware support for exotic hardware - such a package can never > > achieve high popcon numbers. > > Additionally, the package was orphaned 4 years ago, had several bugs > open, some even with patches... That's just blindly looking at statistics. None of the bugs seems to matter for a normal user of the package. > No one cared enough to adopt it in all > those years. See below for an explanation why your "all users are developers" logic is flawed. > Popcon was never high, yes, but it has been significantly > higher in the past. And again you are arguing based on popcon. Your "significantly higher in the past" sounds a lot less convincing when expressed as "16 popcon-reporting machines less have it installed". > > Support for the older MIPS based Cobalts was already > > removed in Debian 8, > > and support for the newer x86 based Cobalts might lack kernel p arts. > > So you might be lucky that cobalt-panel-utils was actually EOL. > > Didn't I write "dead upstream", did I? What you wrote is pretty unrelated to what I am talking about. You wrote that cobalt-panel-utils was dead upstream. This is correct, but completely irrelevant. It is normal and expected that upstream is dead at this point. cobalt-panel-utils upstream was already dead for years at wheezy times, but wheezy does explicitely list the MIPS Cobalts as supported. The only relevant question is whether there are any MIPS or x86 based Cobalts that are still working in unstable, and where users will miss cobalt-panel-utils. I think the answer is No, but someone from the MIPS list should confirm whether it is in principle still possible to run Debian on any Cobalts. > > But this is something you should really have verified before asking > > for removal. > > In the combination of above reasons, the RM was warranted and in order. > Apparently ftp masters agreed with my reasonsing, otherwise they won't > have executed it. An ftp master mistaking two bad reasons for a good reason doesn't make it right. > You > might to want become upstream, though, to solve the dead-upstream > thing. You miss that the dead upstream is not a problem for such a package. This code was published by Sun in 2003, and the "dead-upstream" you are referring to is a guy who did some modifications to cobalt-panel-utils in 2005. MIPS Cobalts are officially listed as supported in wheezy, which was released a year after cobalt-panel-utils was orphaned. Nothing in the bugs indicated that cobalt-panel-utils was broken when the hardware was still officially supported in a new stable Debian in 2013, 8 years after the last upstream release and 7 years (sic) after the last Debian upload. > If you disagree with all this, just open up an ITP bug and reintroduce > the package as maintainer. (As emeritus you know how Debian works). It is a common misconception that Debian is for Debian developers only. In reality, Debian stable is used in many areas, and the vast majority of users won't see anything done on unstable until after the next stable is released. Please be more careful when asking for removal for software that is in stable, and check whether there really is a good reason for removal. When a package wasn't too broken for stable and you wouldn't object to someone ITP'ing the package back immediately afterwards, what is the benefit of removal? None of "orphaned". "low popcon" or "upstream homepage dead" is convincing for removal - even in combination. Removing hardware support without first checking whether this hardware is on machines that are still supported is simply
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
Adrian, Am Donnerstag, den 22.09.2016, 12:15 +0300 schrieb Adrian Bunk: > On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 12:33:00PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > > > > Followup-For: Bug #673959 > > Control: reassign 673959 ftp.debian.org > > Control: retitle 673959 RM: cobalt-panel-utils -- RoQA, low popcon, > > dead upstream, unmaintained > > > > I think this software is EOL and should be removed. > > Popcon is 1 and the Homepage does not exist anymore. > > Hi Tobias, > > did you ever bother to check what this package you successfully > managed > to get removed from unstable actually does before claiming that it > would > be EOL? Hey, calm down. Of course I checked the package throughly before coming to this decision. I never take RM requests lightly. > popcon is never a good metric for verifying that there are no users. Popcon is an important data point, but for of course not the only one. > Even less for a package like cobalt-panel-tils, that provides > hardware support for exotic hardware - such a package can never > achieve high popcon numbers. Additionally, the package was orphaned 4 years ago, had several bugs open, some even with patches... No one cared enough to adopt it in all those years. Popcon was never high, yes, but it has been significantly higher in the past. > Support for the older MIPS based Cobalts was already > removed in Debian 8, > and support for the newer x86 based Cobalts might lack kernel p arts. > So you might be lucky that cobalt-panel-utils was actually EOL. Didn't I write "dead upstream", did I? > But this is something you should really have verified before asking > for removal. In the combination of above reasons, the RM was warranted and in order. Apparently ftp masters agreed with my reasonsing, otherwise they won't have executed it. If you disagree with all this, just open up an ITP bug and reintroduce the package as maintainer. (As emeritus you know how Debian works). You might to want become upstream, though, to solve the dead-upstream thing. > On the Debian MIPS list (Cc'ed) are people who could have given you > definite answers > > > > tobi > > cu > Adrian > >
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 12:33:00PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > Followup-For: Bug #673959 > Control: reassign 673959 ftp.debian.org > Control: retitle 673959 RM: cobalt-panel-utils -- RoQA, low popcon, dead > upstream, unmaintained > > I think this software is EOL and should be removed. > Popcon is 1 and the Homepage does not exist anymore. Hi Tobias, did you ever bother to check what this package you successfully managed to get removed from unstable actually does before claiming that it would be EOL? popcon is never a good metric for verifying that there are no users. Even less for a package like cobalt-panel-utils, that provides hardware support for exotic hardware - such a package can never achieve high popcon numbers. Support for the older MIPS based Cobalts was already removed in Debian 8, and support for the newer x86 based Cobalts might lack kernel parts. So you might be lucky that cobalt-panel-utils was actually EOL. But this is something you should really have verified before asking for removal. On the Debian MIPS list (Cc'ed) are people who could have given you definite answers > tobi cu Adrian -- "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. "Only a promise," Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
Followup-For: Bug #673959 Control: reassign 673959 ftp.debian.org Control: retitle 673959 RM: cobalt-panel-utils -- RoQA, low popcon, dead upstream, unmaintained I think this software is EOL and should be removed. Popcon is 1 and the Homepage does not exist anymore. -- tobi
Bug#673959: O: cobalt-panel-utils -- System utilities for Sun Cobalt's LCD and LEDs
Package: wnpp Severity: normal The current maintainer of cobalt-panel-utils, Adam Cécile (Le_Vert) gand...@le-vert.net, is apparently not active anymore. Therefore, I orphan this package now. Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please only adopt this package if you will have enough time and attention to work on it. If you want to be the new maintainer, please see http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/index.html#howto-o for detailed instructions how to adopt a package properly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
