Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
On Vi, 29 mar 13, 09:45:11, Chris Knadle wrote: You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file is replaced by NetworkManager. Isn't this done by wicd-daemon (maybe by restarting it)? Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 10:54:32AM -0400, Chris Knadle wrote: Okay... updated patches attached. Thanks. Won't have time to work on this for next 24 hours. Hope to get to it later, unless somebody else picks this one up (hint). Bye, Joost - leaving for loadays.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
On Sunday, April 07, 2013 02:22:17, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 29 mar 13, 09:45:11, Chris Knadle wrote: You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file is replaced by NetworkManager. Isn't this done by wicd-daemon (maybe by restarting it)? It doesn't. Also keep in mind that wicd can be set for all kinds of configurations, such that it may not touch this file even making a connection. [I have what appear to be default settings, and this is the behavior I see on my home network, for instance.] /By default/ NM seems to replace /etc/resolv.conf on the first connection attempt. This entry in the release-notes is aimed for Gnome users that /didn't/ previously have network-manager installed, thus may be using wicd. The first thing these users are likely to do is try wicd and find it broken due to the conflict, then try NM and find it broken too -- and the connection attempt with NM replaces the /etc/resolv.conf file, where wicd may not. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
On Du, 07 apr 13, 12:10:28, Chris Knadle wrote: On Sunday, April 07, 2013 02:22:17, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 29 mar 13, 09:45:11, Chris Knadle wrote: You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file is replaced by NetworkManager. Isn't this done by wicd-daemon (maybe by restarting it)? It doesn't. Also keep in mind that wicd can be set for all kinds of configurations, such that it may not touch this file even making a connection. [I have what appear to be default settings, and this is the behavior I see on my home network, for instance.] This doesn't sound right. Wicd has got to have some resolv.conf handling, otherwise it wouldn't be very useful. Maybe the maintainer can help out here? /By default/ NM seems to replace /etc/resolv.conf on the first connection attempt. This entry in the release-notes is aimed for Gnome users that /didn't/ previously have network-manager installed, thus may be using wicd. The first thing these users are likely to do is try wicd and find it broken due to the conflict, then try NM and find it broken too -- and the connection attempt with NM replaces the /etc/resolv.conf file, where wicd may not. Kept for a little bit more context. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
On Sunday, April 07, 2013 12:50:14, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Du, 07 apr 13, 12:10:28, Chris Knadle wrote: On Sunday, April 07, 2013 02:22:17, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 29 mar 13, 09:45:11, Chris Knadle wrote: You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file is replaced by NetworkManager. Isn't this done by wicd-daemon (maybe by restarting it)? It doesn't. Also keep in mind that wicd can be set for all kinds of configurations, such that it may not touch this file even making a connection. [I have what appear to be default settings, and this is the behavior I see on my home network, for instance.] This doesn't sound right. Wicd has got to have some resolv.conf handling, otherwise it wouldn't be very useful. Maybe the maintainer can help out here? wicd can use a dhcp client (dhcpcd, pump, dhclient, udhcpc, automatic), but doesn't necessarily have to. (My settings are in automatic right now.) But there are always some cases where /etc/resolv.conf aren't normally overwritten (and that's not something confined to wicd). The warning about /etc/resolv.conf being replaced by NM is generic so that if a user has this case they can investigate and fix it. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
(sorry for the dupe, forgot to include this to the BTS) On Saturday, April 06, 2013 01:47:15, Joost van Baal-Ilić wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for these nice patches. Some comments though: In the TC-bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#532 has some text on why using n-m with gnome is a good idea. Yes, as I mentioned I didn't get your (previous) BTS message as email, and only saw it after-the-fact as I was about to send the patches. [I did get /this/ one as email, thankfully.] I sent these patches anyway because I also want others to have a baseline to allow further suggested changes. ;) You didn't quote that. I feel it's important: people who previously choose not to run n-m might want to reconsider that, since n-m got much improved. It's helpful to list those improvements. Okay. I can use some of the hints from your prior email to the BTS; I don't use NM much myself, so I don't have first-hand knowledge of improvements it has recently gotten. And in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#665 Technical Commitee stated: 6. We request that a release note is created explaining that gnome users who do not currently have NM installed consider installing it. I didn't see that reflected. Care to get that in, too? Yes, I plan to do that this morning. Would you like this in the 2.2.5.4 section, or the 5.4.2 section? (Or both?) AFAICT it makes sense to put into the 5.4.2 section, e.g. something like: It is suggested that installing NM be considered because it has features that other networking managers lack (such as IPv6 support), but if use of another network manager is desired, the NetworkManager daemon may remain installed but be permanently disabled [...] Thanks for your work! :) Thanks for yours. (More remarks below.) […] [Joost: not sure why, but I only saw your message in BTS just now and did not receive it in email.] Hrm, strange. I'll check for a bounce on my side. Yeah I looked for a rejection in my mail logs and didn't see one, so not sure what happened. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#704211: e: Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
Okay... updated patches attached. These are still based on svn r9694. I was trying to update them for r9709 using Git, but I've apparently forgotten how to do a pull between local branches. If you have any other suggested changes, just let me know and I'll update these again. ;) Thanks much. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us Description: update issues.dbk for conflicts between NetworkManager and other network management daemons, such as wicd-daemon Author: Christopher Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us === --- en/issues.dbk(revision 9694) +++ en/issues.dbk(working copy) @@ -106,21 +106,62 @@ the current Chromium releases for stable. section id=gnome-desktop-changes titleGNOME desktop changes and support/title -para - By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display - manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual - keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. -/para + section + titleAccessibility/title + para +By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display +manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual +keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. + /para + para +To do that, edit the filename/etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings/filename file, +and uncomment the following: + programlistingsession-name='gdm-shell'/programlisting +while commenting + programlistingsession-name='gdm-fallback'/programlisting +Note that it requires a compatible 3D graphics card — which is the reason +why it is not enabled by default. + /para + /section + section id=network-manager-conflicts + titleNetworkManager/title + para +At present, commandNetworkManager/command can detect if a network +interface is managed by commandifupdown/command to avoid conflicts +with it, but does not detect other networking manager programs such as +commandwicd-daemon/command. Problems and unexpected behavior can +result if two network manager daemons are managing the same interface +when attempting to make a networking connection. + /para + para +For instance, if commandwicd-daemon/command and +commandNetworkManager/command are both running, attempting to use a +commandwicd/command client to make a connection will fail with a +counterintuitive error message: +screenConnection Failed: bad password/screen +Attempting to use a commandNetworkManager/command client may likewise +fail with the message: +screenNetworkManager is not running. Please start it./screen +The systemitem role=packagenetwork-manager/systemitem package +cannot easily be removed due to it now being a dependency in the GNOME +package chain. It is is recommended that users of GNOME consider +installing and trying commandNetworkManager/command, but if continuing +to use another networking manager is desired, the +commandNetworkManager/command daemon may remain installed but be +permanently disabled in a way which is persistant through upgrades with +the following command: +screen# update-rc.d network-manager disable/screen +Also examine the contents of filename/etc/resolv.conf/filename, which +is used to specify DNS servers for name resolution, as the contents of +this file are normally replaced by commandNetworkManager/command. + /para + para +Further information is available in bugs +ulink url=url-bts;681834#681834/ulink and +ulink url=url-bts;688772#688772/ulink. + /para + /section -para - To do that, edit the filename/etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings/filename file, - and uncomment the following: -programlistingsession-name='gdm-shell'/programlisting - while commenting -programlistingsession-name='gdm-fallback'/programlisting - Note that it requires a compatible 3D graphics card — which is the reason - why it is not enabled by default. -/para /section section id=graphics condition=fixme Description: update whats-new.dbk to mention NetworkManager and wicd-daemon, link to possible conflicts Author: Christopher Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us === --- en/whats-new.dbk(revision 9694) +++ en/whats-new.dbk(working copy) @@ -656,6 +656,24 @@ deb-src url-debian-mirror-eg;/debian releasename;-updates main contrib/progra features are now available in GDM 3.x. /para /section + section +titleNetwork management/title +para + GNOME now features online connectivity awareness with several + applications along with the GNOME shell using + commandNetworkManager/command, which features IPv6 compatibility + along with a wide range of networking technologies (VPN, wireless, 3G). + GNOME users are strongly advised to use + commandNetworkManager/command for
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
Hi Chris, I'd put it near http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#idp298704 2.2.5. GNOME 3, so that's svn.debian.org/svn/ddp/manuals/trunk/release-notes/en/whats-new.dbk Thanks, Bye, Joost PS: as you probably know: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#532 has some text on why using n-m with gnome is a good idea and, background: in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#665 Technical Commitee stated: 6. We request that a release note is created explaining that gnome users who do not currently have NM installed consider installing it. . HTH! signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
tags 704211 + patch thanks Patches attached for a proposed update for the release-notes concerning conflicts between NetworkManager and wicd-daemon (and possibly others). These are based on release-notes svn revision 9694. issues-NM.dbk.diff- explains NM - wicd conflict and a workaround whats-new-NM.dbk.diff - mentions some NetworkManager features and points to conflict section if another networking manager is desired. These patches are separate so that the two sections can be updated independently of one-another. I'm willing to keep these patches updated if changes to the wording are desired. Thanks. [Joost: not sure why, but I only saw your message in BTS just now and did not receive it in email.] -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us Description: update issues.dbk for conflicts between NetworkManager and other network management daemons, such as wicd-daemon Author: Christopher Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us === --- en/issues.dbk(revision 9694) +++ en/issues.dbk(working copy) @@ -106,21 +106,62 @@ the current Chromium releases for stable. section id=gnome-desktop-changes titleGNOME desktop changes and support/title -para - By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display - manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual - keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. -/para + section + titleAccessibility/title + para +By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display +manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual +keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. + /para + para +To do that, edit the filename/etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings/filename file, +and uncomment the following: + programlistingsession-name='gdm-shell'/programlisting +while commenting + programlistingsession-name='gdm-fallback'/programlisting +Note that it requires a compatible 3D graphics card — which is the reason +why it is not enabled by default. + /para + /section + section id=network-manager-conflicts + titleNetworkManager/title + para +The package chain in GNOME now Depends on +systemitem role=packagenetwork-manager/systemitem. At present, +commandNetworkManager/command can detect if a network interface is +managed by commandifupdown/command to avoid conflicts with it, but +does not detect other networking manager programs such as +commandwicd-daemon/command. Problems and unexpected behavior can +result if two network manager daemons are managing the same interface +when attempting to make a networking connection. + /para + para +For instance, if commandwicd-daemon/command and +commandNetworkManager/command are both running, attempting to use a +commandwicd/command client to make a connection will fail with a +counterintuitive error message: +screenConnection Failed: bad password/screen +Attempting to use a commandNetworkManager/command client may likewise +fail with the message: +screenNetworkManager is not running. Please start it./screen +The systemitem role=packagenetwork-manager/systemitem package +cannot easily be removed due to it now being a GNOME dependency, but if +continuing to use another networking manager is desired, the +commandNetworkManager/command daemon may remain installed but be +permanently disabled in a way which is persistant through upgrades with +the following command: +screen# update-rc.d network-manager disable/screen +Also examine the contents of filename/etc/resolv.conf/filename, which +is used to specify DNS servers for name resolution, as the contents of +this file are normally replaced by commandNetworkManager/command. + /para + para +Further information is available in bugs +ulink url=url-bts;681834#681834/ulink and +ulink url=url-bts;688772#688772/ulink. + /para + /section -para - To do that, edit the filename/etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings/filename file, - and uncomment the following: -programlistingsession-name='gdm-shell'/programlisting - while commenting -programlistingsession-name='gdm-fallback'/programlisting - Note that it requires a compatible 3D graphics card — which is the reason - why it is not enabled by default. -/para /section section id=graphics condition=fixme Description: update whats-new.dbk to mention NetworkManager and wicd-daemon, link to possible conflicts Author: Christopher Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us === --- en/whats-new.dbk(revision 9694) +++ en/whats-new.dbk(working copy) @@ -656,6 +656,19 @@ deb-src url-debian-mirror-eg;/debian releasename;-updates main contrib/progra features are now available
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
Hi Chris, Thanks for these nice patches. Some comments though: In the TC-bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#532 has some text on why using n-m with gnome is a good idea. You didn't quote that. I feel it's important: people who previously choose not to run n-m might want to reconsider that, since n-m got much improved. It's helpful to list those improvements. And in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#665 Technical Commitee stated: 6. We request that a release note is created explaining that gnome users who do not currently have NM installed consider installing it. I didn't see that reflected. Care to get that in, too? Thanks for your work! (More remarks below.) Bye, Joost On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:26:55AM -0400, Chris Knadle wrote: tags 704211 + patch thanks Patches attached for a proposed update for the release-notes concerning conflicts between NetworkManager and wicd-daemon (and possibly others). These are based on release-notes svn revision 9694. issues-NM.dbk.diff- explains NM - wicd conflict and a workaround whats-new-NM.dbk.diff - mentions some NetworkManager features and points to conflict section if another networking manager is desired. These patches are separate so that the two sections can be updated independently of one-another. I'm willing to keep these patches updated if changes to the wording are desired. Thanks. [Joost: not sure why, but I only saw your message in BTS just now and did not receive it in email.] Hrm, strange. I'll check for a bounce on my side. -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us Description: update issues.dbk for conflicts between NetworkManager and other network management daemons, such as wicd-daemon Author: Christopher Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us === --- en/issues.dbk(revision 9694) +++ en/issues.dbk(working copy) @@ -106,21 +106,62 @@ the current Chromium releases for stable. section id=gnome-desktop-changes titleGNOME desktop changes and support/title -para - By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display - manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual - keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. -/para + section + titleAccessibility/title + para +By default, most accessibility tools are not enabled in the GNOME display +manager (gdm3). In order to enable screen reading, zooming, or a visual +keyboard, the simplest way is to enable the quoteshell/quote greeter. + /para + para +To do that, edit the filename/etc/gdm3/greeter.gsettings/filename file, +and uncomment the following: + programlistingsession-name='gdm-shell'/programlisting +while commenting + programlistingsession-name='gdm-fallback'/programlisting +Note that it requires a compatible 3D graphics card — which is the reason +why it is not enabled by default. + /para + /section + section id=network-manager-conflicts + titleNetworkManager/title + para +The package chain in GNOME now Depends on +systemitem role=packagenetwork-manager/systemitem. At present, +commandNetworkManager/command can detect if a network interface is +managed by commandifupdown/command to avoid conflicts with it, but +does not detect other networking manager programs such as +commandwicd-daemon/command. Problems and unexpected behavior can +result if two network manager daemons are managing the same interface +when attempting to make a networking connection. + /para + para +For instance, if commandwicd-daemon/command and +commandNetworkManager/command are both running, attempting to use a +commandwicd/command client to make a connection will fail with a +counterintuitive error message: +screenConnection Failed: bad password/screen +Attempting to use a commandNetworkManager/command client may likewise +fail with the message: +screenNetworkManager is not running. Please start it./screen +The systemitem role=packagenetwork-manager/systemitem package +cannot easily be removed due to it now being a GNOME dependency, but if +continuing to use another networking manager is desired, the +commandNetworkManager/command daemon may remain installed but be +permanently disabled in a way which is persistant through upgrades with +the following command: +screen# update-rc.d network-manager disable/screen +Also examine the contents of filename/etc/resolv.conf/filename, which +is used to specify DNS servers for name resolution, as the contents of +this file are normally replaced by commandNetworkManager/command. + /para + para +Further information is available in bugs +
Bug#704211: [release-notes] [wheezy] issues: NM conflicts with wicd-daemon, Gnome3 now depends on NM
Package: release-notes Severity: important --- Please enter the report below this line. --- Greetings. I'm looking to add information to the Release Notes and the Wheezy Errata in order to handle bug #688772 concerning conflict between NetworkMmanager and wicd-daemon. There are about 1800 known [1] installations in which NM is not installed but the gnome metapackage is, and the upgrade to a Depends on NM has a likelihood of breaking these installations, and at present there is no documentation available for the symptoms or how to fix it. [I've been hit by this conflict myself, so I know how frustrating a problem this is.] Attached is a text file containing the basic information I'd like to add. I've cloned the release-notes SVN repo for making a patch, but I'd appreciate a hint as to what section to add it to or if there are wording changes desired. Thanks! [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#151 -- Chris -- Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us conflicts with other networking manager daemons ~~~ Gnome upstream chose to couple NetworkManager tightly with the Gnome Shell in order to provide connectivity awareness for both the Shell and Gnome3 applications. For this reason the Gnome3 maintainers in Debian decided to follow upstream and upgrade the Recommends on the network-manager stack to a Depends. It is known that a small number (about 5.7%) of Squeeze installations have Gnome installed but not NetworkManager, and this new Dependency will cause NetowrkManager to be installed upon a distribution upgrade to Wheezy. At present, NetworkManager can detect if an interface is managed by ifupdown to avoid conflicts with it, but does not detect other networking manager programs such as wicd-daemon. Problems and unexpected behavior can ensue if two network manager daemons are managing the same interface when attempting to make a networking connection. This issue was discussed by the Debian Technical Committee in #681834 and #688772. If wicd-daemon and NetworkManager are both running, a wicd client will fail to make a connection with the counterintuitive message: Connection Failed: bad password Trying a NetworkManager client may sometimes result in the message (even when NetworkManager is running): NetworkManager is not running. Please start it. Or a NetworkManager client may work as expected. Or some other unexpected behavior may occur. If continuing to use another networking manager is desired, the NetworkManager daemon may remain installed but be permanently disabled (which is persistant through upgrades) with: 'update-rc.d network-manager disable' You will also need to recreate /etc/resolv.conf, as the contents of this file is replaced by NetworkManager.
