Bug#762194: a technical proposal
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 06:15:44PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded > > scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. > > This has not been true for many years. (sarge seems to be the last one > where it was true, and etch is the first that uses the priorities from > the various indices.) I wrote "scripts" not "lists of packages". The scripts do take priorities from the "Packages" file from the chosen mirror, but that's just one of inputs. A script lists a number of additional packages, a number of quirks, forced ordering and so on. You can make a script do whatever you like. -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory prices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
Adam Borowski (2014-11-22): > Hi! > As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one: > > just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init" package from > Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart > to > Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart > > The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded > scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. On the > other hand, during upgrades, the init system is driven by apt's resolution > of the above pre-dependency. If systemd-sysv or upstart were already > installed, no change is done; if none of these three packages is present, > apt would install sysvinit-core, preserving existing init system. Proposing “solutions” based on wrong facts (see Tollef's reply) and without including the respective maintainers in the loop doesn't look like the right way to solve technical issues. KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
Hi, Adam Borowski writes: > As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one: > > just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init" package from > Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart > to > Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart >From a simple test this seems to change what debootstrap installs in some configurations (namely at least with --variant=minbase). Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
]] Adam Borowski > The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded > scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. This has not been true for many years. (sarge seems to be the last one where it was true, and etch is the first that uses the priorities from the various indices.) -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Cameron Norman wrote: > Hello, > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: >> Hi! >> As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one: >> >> just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init" package from >> Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart >> to >> Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart >> >> The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded >> scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. On the >> other hand, during upgrades, the init system is driven by apt's resolution >> of the above pre-dependency. If systemd-sysv or upstart were already >> installed, no change is done; if none of these three packages is present, >> apt would install sysvinit-core, preserving existing init system. > > One of Steve Langasek's criticisms of not switching by default was the > pain of having systems still running sysvinit for many years to come, > which makes the distribution more difficult to support. Here is the message which I am referencing. Please see the footnote. I hope I did not misrepresent you, Steve, please correct me if so. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746578#66 -- Cameron Norman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
Hello, On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: > Hi! > As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one: > > just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init" package from > Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart > to > Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart > > The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded > scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. On the > other hand, during upgrades, the init system is driven by apt's resolution > of the above pre-dependency. If systemd-sysv or upstart were already > installed, no change is done; if none of these three packages is present, > apt would install sysvinit-core, preserving existing init system. One of Steve Langasek's criticisms of not switching by default was the pain of having systems still running sysvinit for many years to come, which makes the distribution more difficult to support. If there was an intention to do so, how would we go about switching systems over to systemd in the next release, if we use the solution displayed here in Jessie? Thanks, -- Cameron Norman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#762194: a technical proposal
Hi! As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one: just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init" package from Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart to Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart The set of packages installed by d-i / debootstrap is steered by hard-coded scripts, thus new systems can default to whatever is set there. On the other hand, during upgrades, the init system is driven by apt's resolution of the above pre-dependency. If systemd-sysv or upstart were already installed, no change is done; if none of these three packages is present, apt would install sysvinit-core, preserving existing init system. Just as exim|postfix or xfce|lxde|gnome|... choice is preserved over upgrades -- even if the default for new installation changes -- it is inappropriate to override the existing init system. -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory prices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
